RE: Toyota-powered Smart Roadster: Spotted
RE: Toyota-powered Smart Roadster: Spotted
Thursday 27th September 2018

Toyota-powered Smart Roadster: Spotted

This one-off build combines Smart's tiny two-seater with a 145hp 1.3 sourced from a Starlet...



Remember when the Smart Roadster Brabus was launched? That’s a car that had a lot going for it. It was a tiny, rear-drive two-seater that weighed less than a Mk1 Ka, and it had an enthusiastic, mid-mounted turbocharged triple that made all the right sounds and provided more gusto than its 101hp output suggested. But the little Roadster Brabus defied its size with a comparably high list price that placed it close to the Mazda MX-5, plus, its highly-strung engine needed fully synthetic oil and a service every 7,000 miles, so the car could never compete with the cheap as chips Mazda. That it had other shortfalls, like a brittle ride, hesitant automatic gearbox and slow ratio steering, not to mention very limited storage space, sealed the Brabus’s fate and it remained a niche choice in Britain up until its demise with all the Smart Roadsters in 2005.

Yet it was still a very good car. Actually, in the right circumstance it was brilliant. It had vintage sports car dimensions so even the narrowest of country lanes felt like a race track. Its steering, although sluggish to respond, offered genuine feel. And that dinky chassis – itself a stretched Smart ForTwo structure – had good balance thanks to its squat stance and midship layout. Those who had one for long enough to see past the foibles could appreciate its charms, potential for entertainment and, well, purity. Such a shame not enough of us bought one to secure its future and potential further development.


Perhaps Smart should have put its higher-output concept Roadster into production as a halo model to attract more attention to the range. The Smart Roadster Coupe V6, as its name suggests, had a six-cylinder engine and was built in just 10 examples (none were sold and only two survive in museums) ahead of the Brabus model’s launch. The car’s engine was made by essentially joining two blown triples together on a common crankcase to create a new 1.3-litre motor offering 175hp and 162lb ft of torque. It transformed the car into a serious performance machine with a sub-six-second 0-62mph time and 140mph top speed. That in production form would have certainly garnered wider appreciation, surely, but it was never to be.

This makes today’s Spotted all the more interesting. Here we have a Smart Roadster, dressed in Brabus specification, that's powered by a turbocharged 1.3-litre engine with 145hp. No, not from a V6 like the concept, but rather a four-cylinder sourced - we think - from a Toyota Glanza V. As far as can be seen, it’s been integrated into this custom Roadster to a very high standard; it's described as ready for “club events such as hill climbing and sprinting” by the seller. It uses a five-speed manual gearbox sourced from the Toyota, which in itself is something of interest because the Brabus was auto only, and has an accompanying custom-made pedal box.


Backing the seller’s claims for this high-quality build is a first place finish at Italy's Smart Times – no, we hadn’t heard of it either – in 2011, a third place finish in a tuning competition at the same event and then a second in Belgium’s version of the same thing. If you need more to boost your confidence that it won’t blow up once you drive off the forecourt, the dealer is throwing in a 12-month warranty, tax and a full MOT.

OK, so the elephant in the room: it’s twenty grand. But let’s not forget that list of attributes that made the original model so good, and the cracking performance offered by the concept. This car essentially combines those characteristics into one machine, so as far as Smart Roadsters you can actually buy go, it's got to be the best of the lot. Hasn't it?


SPECIFICATION - SMART ROADSTER

Engine: 1,331cc, four-cyl turbo
Transmission: 5-speed manual, rear-wheel drive
Power (hp): 145
Torque (lb ft): N/A
CO2: N/A
MPG: N/A
First registered: 2004
Recorded mileage: 37,000
Price new: £14,495 (standard car)
Yours for: £19,995

See the original advert here.

(Specification for modified car)


Author
Discussion

Roy m

Original Poster:

212 posts

229 months

Thursday 27th September 2018
quotequote all
At £10k that has the potential to be a great toy but £20k!!!!!

irocfan

44,390 posts

206 months

Thursday 27th September 2018
quotequote all
you'd have to be SERIOUSLY into your Smarts to hand over £20k! That being said as a "money no object" exercise that'd be a total laugh. I've just sold my roadster/coupe and even with only 80ish HP it was fun, 145 would make it very interesting

Harry_523

459 posts

115 months

Thursday 27th September 2018
quotequote all
Cool project, but one of the many bike engine conversions is probably more fun driving

BricktopST205

1,480 posts

150 months

Thursday 27th September 2018
quotequote all
Out of all the engines you could have picked? A 2zz would have been a far better option. Don't get me wrong the 4E-FTE is a strong engine but also heavy and comes with 90's boost.

Filibuster

3,345 posts

231 months

Thursday 27th September 2018
quotequote all
Me too, I absolutely love it!
The Roadster Coupe is such a good looking car and as an absolute hoot to drive!!!

Article is not quite correct, as the gearbox isn't an auto, but rather a 6-speed manual with automated clutch an auto function.
As with all of these types of gearboxes from the early 00's you need to think like the gearbox to use them. Once you learned this they aren't all that bad as everybody believes. Not saying they are good, they just aren't as bad as JC and others keep claiming.

I adore the Roadster Coupe and have driven a couple of them with 95% commitment to buy...
The main problem is that I don't need one... Certainly not enough to justify a 4th car at the same time.

I dream of sticking one of these into the back of one biggrin


Krikkit

27,483 posts

197 months

Thursday 27th September 2018
quotequote all
BricktopST205 said:
Out of all the engines you could have picked? A 2zz would have been a far better option. Don't get me wrong the 4E-FTE is a strong engine but also heavy and comes with 90's boost.
Isn't 90s boost part of the attraction?

Being the Starlet engine can this be wound up to big power like the Glanza?

datum77

470 posts

137 months

Thursday 27th September 2018
quotequote all
Just by way of information - this company bought this Smart from auction at circa £14000.........around 6 weeks ago.

Mr_Sukebe

390 posts

224 months

Thursday 27th September 2018
quotequote all
I hired one whilst in Madeira on holiday a decade ago.
Wonderful little car. Felt like we were doing 100mph, when the speedo was actually saying 100kph.
Unfortunately, the gearbox killed it for me. Woeful, truly BAD CVT. If they'd replaced the gearbox with a decent manual, and as a secondary request, switched to a decent 1ltr non-turbo, would have been perfect.

irocfan

44,390 posts

206 months

Thursday 27th September 2018
quotequote all
Mr_Sukebe said:
I hired one whilst in Madeira on holiday a decade ago.
Wonderful little car. Felt like we were doing 100mph, when the speedo was actually saying 100kph.
Unfortunately, the gearbox killed it for me. Woeful, truly BAD CVT. If they'd replaced the gearbox with a decent manual, and as a secondary request, switched to a decent 1ltr non-turbo, would have been perfect.
Flappy paddle shift really makes all the difference re. drivability.

WRT the bike engine conversions - they are by a number of accounts not a whole lot of fun to drive. Needs tons of revs with not a lot of torque

gofasterrosssco

1,285 posts

252 months

Thursday 27th September 2018
quotequote all
Nanook said:
BricktopST205 said:
Out of all the engines you could have picked? A 2zz would have been a far better option. Don't get me wrong the 4E-FTE is a strong engine but also heavy and comes with 90's boost.
Isn't the 2zz physically quite a bit bigger?
I don't know the dimensions exactly, but unlikely its any larger (if at all..). Plus the additional turbo components add size and complexity (I suspect that IC will heat soak).

Yeah nice conversion (on the face of it), but really odd choice of engine.. Agree a 2ZZ-GE with short ratio 6-speed and LSD (use MR2 bits) would seem the more appropriate choice. Of course the owner clearly liked his little Starlet engine!

threespires

4,398 posts

227 months

Thursday 27th September 2018
quotequote all
"Froglet" Smart Toyota with an MR2 engine.
Pistonheads at Curborough March 2013.
Owned by Smart-TECNIC Birmingham. A P/H member.



The engine



Shelsley Walsh



Smart Crossblade. A new addition.


dufunk

182 posts

139 months

Thursday 27th September 2018
quotequote all
4efte is about 80 kg 2zz 115kg, 2zz would be physically a fair bit bigger. 4efte loves to rev right the way to 7250rpm its a super engine and deserves more swaps in to lightweight stuff.

anonymous-user

70 months

Thursday 27th September 2018
quotequote all
My brother had a Smart Roadster years ago. Fun little car but absolutely terrible gearbox. Had to be sold for this reason!

dxg

9,496 posts

276 months

Thursday 27th September 2018
quotequote all
Mr_Sukebe said:
I hired one whilst in Madeira on holiday a decade ago.
Wonderful little car. Felt like we were doing 100mph, when the speedo was actually saying 100kph.
Unfortunately, the gearbox killed it for me. Woeful, truly BAD CVT. If they'd replaced the gearbox with a decent manual, and as a secondary request, switched to a decent 1ltr non-turbo, would have been perfect.
It wasn't a CVT. It was a manual box with an automatic tumbler selecting the gears. One of the reasons it was so slow and therefore dire. I sold mine within 9 months because of it. The number of times you'd find yourself pulling onto a roundabout and then being stranded half on it as the box searched for the next gear was simply dangerous.

But it was fun in all other respects!

TartanPaint

3,106 posts

155 months

Thursday 27th September 2018
quotequote all
Great cars. Luggage was not a problem in the coupe. We went camping in ours with all the gear. And 2 cabin-sized bags fit perfectly on the parcel shelf for weekends away. The front boot was ok too for a few shopping bags.

I had a standard 80bhp car, then upgraded to the 101bhp Brabus. Wonderful things, and an absolute hoot to drive.

I didn't sell the Brabus because of the gearbox, and you really do learn to work with it, or around it at least. But the box is probably the reason I wouldn't buy another. It is very flawed.

The attention and smiles they get is just great. Everyone loves them. It's just one of those happy cars that's impossible to dislike.

I did wonder if a 1.0 Ecoboost would fit. Similar size and power and character as the original, but just a few more horses. And a manual box! I don't think the Toyota conversion works for me. It's too aggressive.

gofasterrosssco

1,285 posts

252 months

Thursday 27th September 2018
quotequote all
dufunk said:
4efte is about 80 kg 2zz 115kg, 2zz would be physically a fair bit bigger. 4efte loves to rev right the way to 7250rpm its a super engine and deserves more swaps in to lightweight stuff.
I think your figures are a fair bit out.

http://www.ukstarletowners.com/topic/58282-how-muc...

I'd find it highly unlikely that an iron-block turbo engine of 80's vintage would be lighter than an all-alloy engine from the 90's.. I've seen (not personally) a couple of MR2 swaps where the 4A-GE (NA 1.6L, lovely wee engine, also loves revs) was swapped for a 2ZZ-GE, and there is no weight penalty at all, and they seem to be very similar in overall dimensions. Granted, the 'performance' Toyota G engines may be slightly wider in the cylinder head than F engines (wider valve angle for improved higher rpm air flow).

Not disagreeing its a 'bad' engines choice, just I'm well aware of the effects of combining relatively SWB mid-engine cars and 'boosty' turbo engines.. hehe

gofasterrosssco

1,285 posts

252 months

Thursday 27th September 2018
quotequote all
Nanook said:
gofasterrosssco said:
I don't know the dimensions exactly, but unlikely its any larger (if at all..). Plus the additional turbo components add size and complexity (I suspect that IC will heat soak).

Yeah nice conversion (on the face of it), but really odd choice of engine.. Agree a 2ZZ-GE with short ratio 6-speed and LSD (use MR2 bits) would seem the more appropriate choice. Of course the owner clearly liked his little Starlet engine!
The MR2 gearbox isn't much use for the 2ZZ. The MR2 never came with a 2ZZ, and whilst conversions are popular, you need to being the gearbox with the engine

The block and head is definitely bigger, plus, the additional turbo and intercooler etc. have a place to reside, as they did when the car had it's original engine.

B16 would suit me!
Wasn't too clear. I meant the Celica (or Corolla) engine and gearbox, combined with Torsen LSD out of the MR2. You can swap the short ratios into the MR2 casing (but steal the MR2 6-speed cog for a longer cruising gear).

Nah, 4A-GE 20V Black top stuck to Celica 6-speeder wink

Baldchap

9,167 posts

108 months

Thursday 27th September 2018
quotequote all
threespires said:
"Froglet" Smart Toyota with an MR2 engine.
Pistonheads at Curborough March 2013.
Owned by Smart-TECNIC Birmingham. A P/H member.



The engine



Shelsley Walsh



Smart Crossblade. A new addition.

They didn't do the conversion, they bought it like that from a couple called Pam and Tony (I think).

Mr2Mike

20,143 posts

271 months

Thursday 27th September 2018
quotequote all
dxg said:
It wasn't a CVT. It was a manual box with an automatic tumbler selecting the gears. One of the reasons it was so slow and therefore dire. I sold mine within 9 months because of it. The number of times you'd find yourself pulling onto a roundabout and then being stranded half on it as the box searched for the next gear was simply dangerous.
This is simply not an issue when used in semi-auto mode, once you have learnt to use the gearbox efficiently. However it is a problem in the thoroughly useless full auto mode, which I rarely if ever use.


This looks like a very neat conversion, though you lose all the boot space and I'm not keen on all the excessive red highlights in the cockpit either. It's a huge stretch at £20k, I can't see it getting sold any time soon.


Edited by Mr2Mike on Thursday 27th September 13:28

BMWBen

4,904 posts

217 months

Thursday 27th September 2018
quotequote all
Mr2Mike said:
dxg said:
It wasn't a CVT. It was a manual box with an automatic tumbler selecting the gears. One of the reasons it was so slow and therefore dire. I sold mine within 9 months because of it. The number of times you'd find yourself pulling onto a roundabout and then being stranded half on it as the box searched for the next gear was simply dangerous.
This is simply not an issue when used in semi-auto mode, once you have learnt to use the gearbox efficiently. However it is a problem in the thoroughly useless full auto mode, which I rarely if ever use.
Disagree. Trying to pull out onto a busy/fast roundabout in one was always a brown trouser moment. I did love the one I had though!