Does a low top speed in a performance car bother you?

[unpc]

On a practical level it wouldn't bother me but in principle it does.

I lived and worked in Germany for many years and used enjoy maxing out my old 911 as well as a plethora of rental cars. Those days are long behind me now and I no longer get a buzz from driving fast in a straight line. I find I get a lot more pleasure from ragging slow vehicles than fast ones. After my F-Pace SVR got nicked I borrowed my daughter's 1.2 Fiat 500 and I reckon I got more pleasure from that.

Talking of shoddily built Caterhams, mine was too, but then i built it myself

[Nomme de Plum]

LooneyTunes said:

Possibly tempting fate, but my Cerbera (owned now for more than a decade) was used pretty much daily for a while and has yet to leave me stranded. The Taycan was MrsLT’s daily. It had repeated issues and did leave her stranded.

My Cerbera bought from new was on the road only 3 out of 13 months. Threatened litigation and a further 12 months and I received a full refund plus loss of interest and some compensation. I employed an engineer as an expert witness. His report was utterly damming. The car was so badly built it was potentially dangerous. To be fair the dealer was excellent and said they would fix all of the issues FOC and make it the car it should have been but I had lost faith by then. The Taycan did about 15k kM faultless.

[popeyewhite]

What 'performance car' has a low top speed?

[cerb4.5lee]

popeyewhite said:

What 'performance car' has a low top speed?

It was the MG Cyberster that prompted me to start the thread. It has over 500bhp...but it only manages to top out at a paltry 125mph. So a great example of a performance car with a low top speed for me.

[popeyewhite]

cerb4.5lee said:

popeyewhite said:

What 'performance car' has a low top speed?

It was the MG Cyberster that prompted me to start the thread. It has over 500bhp...but it only manages to top out at a paltry 125mph. So a great example of a performance car with a low top speed for me.

Well fair enough, that is actually pretty slow.

[otolith]

The two different specs of Cyberster have different top speeds - 121 mph for the 335 bhp on and 125 mph for the 496 bhp one. I suspect that's the point it runs out of revs rather than an artificial limit. Question is, would you want to pay more and carry more weight to have a two speed transmission you'll probably never use?

[Nomme de Plum]

otolith said:

The two different specs of Cyberster have different top speeds - 121 mph for the 335 bhp on and 125 mph for the 496 bhp one. I suspect that's the point it runs out of revs rather than an artificial limit. Question is, would you want to pay more and carry more weight to have a two speed transmission you'll probably never use?

For a road car single speed is fine. Especially a convertible. I’d rather have the ability to have torque vectoring than a silly top speed.

[otolith]

Nomme de Plum said:

For a road car single speed is fine. Especially a convertible. I’d rather have the ability to have torque vectoring than a silly top speed.

Indeed, but then you don't have a nominal top speed of 170mph that you'll never actually use.

[wc98]

cerb4.5lee said:

I've always done the max out thing too. Although I was only brave enough to see 160mph in the Cerbera though, because it felt like it wanted to take off! I did see 165mph on the clock in the E92 M3 though, and that was rock solid and very stable in comparison.

I've only been to 147mph in the F82 M4 though...so I must try harder I reckon!

Doing 160 in a Cerbera takes some balls whereas 155 on the limiter in an M4 would be a doddle. I can remember my first encounter with a TVR just outside Stonehaven way back when i had a Mk2 16v GTI. Was used to harassing far more powerful rwd cars in the wet (the week before had the pleasure of seeing a 928 stepping out big time with me up his arse in heavy rain on a local road just before a rwd Cosworth joined the fun and we all had a carry on before going our separate ways at a roundabout with a cheery wave and a laugh) when this big green thing pulled out in front of me. I thought here we go, but no, he just disappeared down the road after straightening it out and the last sight i had of him was piling into a fast corner about 20 mph faster than i would have, was great to see.

Once i could afford decent sports bikes i completely forgot about getting a fast car. There was no way i could run something really quick for anything like the cost of a quick bike and the dynamics of the bike just made them far more involving and fun for me. We would do odd daft things in the evenings after work if we didn't fancy a proper run, like the near 20 mile run between two towns on a nice bit of dual carriageway jsut to see how quick we could do it. It didn't take long flat out in 6th there and back.

Back then the speed that a 1000cc bike would indicate 180 mph plus was incredible, the new stuff from BMW, Ducati and the Japanese manufacturers must be mental.

I'm currently in the process of deciding whether to get a circa 2012 Fireblade or a fun car like a 6 cylinder 1 series to do me into my motoring dotage alongside the humdrum stuff we use as daily transport. I'm erring on the side of a bike again as the fuel bill for a fun car will be ridiculous these days. I took my wifes Cla 180 to visit a friend the other night, a round trip of just under 40 miles,split roughly 50/50 between dual carriageway and lovely technical b roads. I used quarter a tank of fuel and its only a 1.6 turbo with less than 130hp so i'm thinking fun driving in something like a 130i is going to see single figure returns on mpg. Not handy on a euro trip when your not a PHPBD

[wc98]

murphyaj said:

Where?

Had a Ferrari and three Aston Martins, currently have a McLaren; never taken any of them to V-max. Not even sure how I would go about such a thing to be honest. Even on a track day it would be pretty tricky, you'd need a runway, and a long one at that. Took the Ferrari to a runway once but didn't get it to top speed, once you are going over 150 you're covering ground really, really, really fast so a mile of tarmac disappears very quickly. I know Straightliners do events at Elvington a few times a year where you get a 2-mile runway to play with, and even there according to their results you're unlikely to hit vmax in a modern supercar. At their May event they had an 812, 296, a 600LT and an Aventador turn up, none of them hit their V-max.

If I attempted such a thing on a road in the UK and got caught I imagine I'd be luckly to avoid prison.

If you're not a Traffic Officer would be happy to pm you. I have watched footage of a friend of my brothers doing 203mph , footage from a friends fireblade doing 186mph with a 650s and i know of local Ferrari and Mclaren owners that also have footage of their cars maxed out and one ex Mclaren owner that would be up the arse of the fastest bikes around here on b roads north of 150mph.

Track days or straight liner events aren't really much use for standard vehicles on road gearing unless it's motorbikes. I'm pretty sure my fireblade was showing 180mph in less than 20 secs. I've seen 180 plus indicated on many a roads up here and even a few b roads although it definitely got interesting on them quickly due to the less than consistent surface. That would be worse these days given the state of the roads.

I'm going to assume you live in the south east with a far higher traffic density on the roads than where i live although we seem to be catching up these days.

Usual caveat applies, all above figment of my imagination, speed kills etc etc.

[wc98]

GT9 said:

otolith said:

If they just lied to you about the top speed, would most people ever find out?

(This was once a TVR forum, after all...)

I gave them absolute death on their You tube video, utter shysters, including the driver.

[whimsical ninja]

I remember about 25 years ago (I would have been about 15) there was an advert for a car - I think it was a Volvo - basically saying that it was quicker than either Ferrari or a Porsche for accelerating 50-70 mph in top gear and that this was important because it was the most useful stat for overtaking (they did have the humility to admit that the Ferrari and Porsche would have been quicker in lower gears!)

That ad has struck a chord with me ever since. I suppose what I mean to say is that I don't mind if the top speed isn't that high, but I do want some grunt in the middle range...some electric vehicles now do 0-40 or so pretty much instantly but then drop off a cliff after that.

[cerb4.5lee]

wc98 said:

cerb4.5lee said:

I've always done the max out thing too. Although I was only brave enough to see 160mph in the Cerbera though, because it felt like it wanted to take off! I did see 165mph on the clock in the E92 M3 though, and that was rock solid and very stable in comparison.

I've only been to 147mph in the F82 M4 though...so I must try harder I reckon!

Doing 160 in a Cerbera takes some balls whereas 155 on the limiter in an M4 would be a doddle. I can remember my first encounter with a TVR just outside Stonehaven way back when i had a Mk2 16v GTI. Was used to harassing far more powerful rwd cars in the wet (the week before had the pleasure of seeing a 928 stepping out big time with me up his arse in heavy rain on a local road just before a rwd Cosworth joined the fun and we all had a carry on before going our separate ways at a roundabout with a cheery wave and a laugh) when this big green thing pulled out in front of me. I thought here we go, but no, he just disappeared down the road after straightening it out and the last sight i had of him was piling into a fast corner about 20 mph faster than i would have, was great to see.

Once i could afford decent sports bikes i completely forgot about getting a fast car. There was no way i could run something really quick for anything like the cost of a quick bike and the dynamics of the bike just made them far more involving and fun for me. We would do odd daft things in the evenings after work if we didn't fancy a proper run, like the near 20 mile run between two towns on a nice bit of dual carriageway jsut to see how quick we could do it. It didn't take long flat out in 6th there and back.

Back then the speed that a 1000cc bike would indicate 180 mph plus was incredible, the new stuff from BMW, Ducati and the Japanese manufacturers must be mental.

I'm currently in the process of deciding whether to get a circa 2012 Fireblade or a fun car like a 6 cylinder 1 series to do me into my motoring dotage alongside the humdrum stuff we use as daily transport. I'm erring on the side of a bike again as the fuel bill for a fun car will be ridiculous these days. I took my wifes Cla 180 to visit a friend the other night, a round trip of just under 40 miles,split roughly 50/50 between dual carriageway and lovely technical b roads. I used quarter a tank of fuel and its only a 1.6 turbo with less than 130hp so i'm thinking fun driving in something like a 130i is going to see single figure returns on mpg. Not handy on a euro trip when your not a PHPBD

Bikes are absolutely awesome for performance as you say. I always remember having a bit of fun with a chap on a ZX6 Ninja in the Cerbera. I went from 30mph to 130mph and I just couldn't get anywhere near him(he just sailed off into the distance). It was great to see how easy it is to drop a car when you're on a motorbike I thought.

[J4CKO]

cerb4.5lee said:

wc98 said:

cerb4.5lee said:

I've always done the max out thing too. Although I was only brave enough to see 160mph in the Cerbera though, because it felt like it wanted to take off! I did see 165mph on the clock in the E92 M3 though, and that was rock solid and very stable in comparison.

I've only been to 147mph in the F82 M4 though...so I must try harder I reckon!

Doing 160 in a Cerbera takes some balls whereas 155 on the limiter in an M4 would be a doddle. I can remember my first encounter with a TVR just outside Stonehaven way back when i had a Mk2 16v GTI. Was used to harassing far more powerful rwd cars in the wet (the week before had the pleasure of seeing a 928 stepping out big time with me up his arse in heavy rain on a local road just before a rwd Cosworth joined the fun and we all had a carry on before going our separate ways at a roundabout with a cheery wave and a laugh) when this big green thing pulled out in front of me. I thought here we go, but no, he just disappeared down the road after straightening it out and the last sight i had of him was piling into a fast corner about 20 mph faster than i would have, was great to see.

Once i could afford decent sports bikes i completely forgot about getting a fast car. There was no way i could run something really quick for anything like the cost of a quick bike and the dynamics of the bike just made them far more involving and fun for me. We would do odd daft things in the evenings after work if we didn't fancy a proper run, like the near 20 mile run between two towns on a nice bit of dual carriageway jsut to see how quick we could do it. It didn't take long flat out in 6th there and back.

Back then the speed that a 1000cc bike would indicate 180 mph plus was incredible, the new stuff from BMW, Ducati and the Japanese manufacturers must be mental.

I'm currently in the process of deciding whether to get a circa 2012 Fireblade or a fun car like a 6 cylinder 1 series to do me into my motoring dotage alongside the humdrum stuff we use as daily transport. I'm erring on the side of a bike again as the fuel bill for a fun car will be ridiculous these days. I took my wifes Cla 180 to visit a friend the other night, a round trip of just under 40 miles,split roughly 50/50 between dual carriageway and lovely technical b roads. I used quarter a tank of fuel and its only a 1.6 turbo with less than 130hp so i'm thinking fun driving in something like a 130i is going to see single figure returns on mpg. Not handy on a euro trip when your not a PHPBD

Bikes are absolutely awesome for performance as you say. I always remember having a bit of fun with a chap on a ZX6 Ninja in the Cerbera. I went from 30mph to 130mph and I just couldn't get anywhere near him(he just sailed off into the distance). It was great to see how easy it is to drop a car when you're on a motorbike I thought.

Was, the gap in performance has closed a bit, only for the real high end but some of the faster EVs and tuner cars especially will out drag even a litre bike nowadays.

Still, most bikes will outdrag most cars but with the crazy power outputs, launch modes and 4wd, bikes dont stand a chance off the line.

[AstonZagato]

Top speed is bragging rights only. Acceleration (and braking) is more of a marker for performance for me.

I'm not averse to big speeds. I used to live in Germany and I'd hit 125mph (or more) most days on the way home from work (on a short section of derestricted Autobahn).

I've often driven at 150mph+ (again in Germany) and things happen very, very quickly at that speed. What people who have only driven in the UK on public roads often don't understand is the speed increments don't feel linear. 70mph vs 100mph? Doesn't seem like a big difference. 100mph vs 130mph? Feels like a huge uplift. 130mph vs 160mph? Quantum shift (at least for me).

Since I moved back to the UK, triple-digit speeds haven't featured (Your Honour) and, to be honest, I don't miss them.

Back to the OP's point about the MG, I think 125mph is probably now enough for me - I doubt I'll ever exceed that speed in my driving ever again, even in Germany. I'm not sure my eyesight or reflexes are as sharp as they once were (and my sense of self preservation is definitely higher). It wouldn't bother me if my sports car couldn't go faster than that, as long as it can keep up in the twisties.

However, 125mph is probably the minimum satisfactory number for my tastes.

[wc98]

cerb4.5lee said:

It is always a funny one for me, because I don't lack confidence on the road, but I don't feel like I have enough confidence for a track if you know what I mean though. Plus I've always been pretty crap in the corners as well, and I think that it why I've generally always gone for pretty quick performance cars, so that I can at least have a bit of fun in a straight line.

I've always been different to the majority with that too, and I prefer straight lines to corners. I ought to move to America really!

I would say i am an average enthusiast when it comes to driving/riding ability , zero natural talent so have worked hard to get to the meagre level i have. The straight line stuff doesn't do much for me apart from the fact that the speed you arrive at a corner will decide how interesting that corner is, from my perspective. Putting a nice line together through a set of corners is what i like and some corners that will mean more speed than others.

The open wide left right set of bends on the A85 alongside the River Dochart spring to mind, 6th gear on the bike with your eyeballs touching the inside of the visor. The Tay Bridge to Melville Lodges roundabout is all 4th,5th and 6th gear on a 1000cc bike, lovely flowing road but definitely had to pick your times to avoid any traffic.

Once you get further north and west it gets even better. I can remember stopping at the end of Glen Coe one day and looking at my mates back tyre and telling him it was screwed, bits of rubber hanging off it due to all the times it was losing contact with the ground on the bumps at high speed, then he laughed and pointed at mine. The 2 laps round the Scotsburgring that followed did nothing to improve their condition I wonder if it still has all the black lines into and out of the corners in summer, handy for someone doing it for the first time to show them the lines.

A mate has a lot of video footage from back in the day (of random people on bikes that none of us know of course) wheelies into 6th gear, one 5 mile wheelie in europe at 140 mph, Knockhill TT runs and loads of other stuff that would give some on here a heart attack i think. No one died and the only minor injuries involved those that screwed up. He didn't get a mate landing a 130mph wheelie on the brakes because the lad in front had braked. Resulted in the oil from a holed engine case igniting on sparks from the titanium can. Big ball of fire sliding down the road, 6ft 5 rider doing the same at the side of me and a big cloud of smoke from the rest of us hammering on the brakes. Fire went out as bike came to a halt, mate called, bike and rider (zero injuries to rider, alpinestar leathers hadn't even worn through the stitched on letters, awesome gear) into his low loader, engine case, new can and brake lever purchased following day and bike ready for the weekend

Another high speed wheelie landing (due to cold tyre) resulted in half a bike landing on the garage roof of the owner of Knockhill. Leathers didn't fair so well in that and one. Staved thumb and the other ground half the end away didn't stop the rider making a euro trip 5 weeks later and doing 8 min laps at the ring. All great fun (it's always funny as long as nobody dies) and i wouldn't change a thing including all the points, fines and court appearances as they brought about better observational awareness and tempered my enthusiasm on occasion. It's only right to pay a bit extra for having all that fun on a public resource in comparison to those that only ever experienced the daily drudgery of commuting, particularly in the busier areas of the country.

[murphyaj]

wc98 said:

If you're not a Traffic Officer would be happy to pm you. I have watched footage of a friend of my brothers doing 203mph , footage from a friends fireblade doing 186mph with a 650s and i know of local Ferrari and Mclaren owners that also have footage of their cars maxed out and one ex Mclaren owner that would be up the arse of the fastest bikes around here on b roads north of 150mph.

Track days or straight liner events aren't really much use for standard vehicles on road gearing unless it's motorbikes. I'm pretty sure my fireblade was showing 180mph in less than 20 secs. I've seen 180 plus indicated on many a roads up here and even a few b roads although it definitely got interesting on them quickly due to the less than consistent surface. That would be worse these days given the state of the roads.

I'm going to assume you live in the south east with a far higher traffic density on the roads than where i live although we seem to be catching up these days.

Usual caveat applies, all above figment of my imagination, speed kills etc etc.

To save getting into an argument I am going to check out here and not go into what I think of your brothers friend. If it was one of my friends I'd be telling him exactly what I thought of him using some language that would get censored on here.

Edited by murphyaj on Thursday 27th June 16:47

[wc98]

J4CKO said:

Even as standard my car was pretty capable, the extra power was largely unnecessary to have fun but it did turn everything up a bit to make use of the chassis, then added LSD and bigger brakes to finish the package.

I do tend to avoid doing huge speed, just because it can, across the Cheshire A and B roads, some restraint is required and you find its a little blast here and there but its difficult due to trucks, cyclists, walkers, other cars etc, plus I am not all that as a driver so like to keep a bit back.

Its generally not the car thats the limiting factor on outright speed for me, its my desire not to end up in a ditch or hurt anyone else, or even just get nicked.

Thats what track days are for, can just go flat out without the worry, pains me to see these young lads in very fast stuff like tuned M140I's blasting down urban and resedential roads, 450 bhp cars can be had for 15 grand or less nowadays which is a bit worrying.

I'm with you on that. My main priority has always been not doing anything that spoils someone elses day. I'm the same in that respect,no matter what vehicle i am driving/riding it's me that is the limiting factor every time. The craze for driving like a loony in built up areas is bang out of order and far likelier to lead to restrictions than playing on out of the way roads with low traffic, there is no excuse for it.

With cars i've never worried too much about ending up in a ditch, it's hard to worry about that after doing a lot of quick miles on bikes. I can remember us hiring a car at the Ring one year after it snowed and they dumped a load of oil on the track from their new snow blower (it melted in an hour, no need for the blower other than someone wanted to have a play) and getting in the car ( one of Dales old Alfas at the time) with the leathers and helmets on, looking at the roll cage and thinking it's impossible to get hurt in this

[wc98]

murphyaj said:

To save getting into an argument I am going to check out here and not go into what I think of your brothers friend. If it was one of my friends I'd be telling him exactly what I thought of him using some language that would get censored on here.

Edited by murphyaj on Thursday 27th June 16:47

That's ok, i understand not everyone likes the same things. There are things i would jail politicians for that many on here find acceptable so i know our tolerance for different behaviours in different areas varies widely. Note i am a big believer that should you screw up on the road and it affects anyone else other than you then the book should be thrown at you, no question.