What am I getting wrong about sports cars?
Discussion
An interesting topic!
sassthathoopie - really enjoyed reading your posts.
I think my 'fun' car choices are a product of both my age and my driving environment.
My age in that, as a teenager in the late 80's, early 90's, the sports cars from that era remain emotionally those that I am most drawn too and, if I'm honest, I guess that my 'bias' means I will happily overlook some of their compromises.
My driving environment is one of a good mix of rural B and A-roads, many of which are in quite shocking condition. I'm not prepared to put up with fun cars for long which can't handle (my discomfort or the car's lack of composure) these type of roads. If I'm on a new road and have to think twice before I take a turning because I don't know the road, then I guarantee that 'fun' car will not last long with me.
Anyway, just the wrong side of 50 I now find myself with what's probably been my favourite mix of fun cars so far: a 1991 Honda NSX (10 years and counting), a 2005 MX5 NB Sport (have had many other MX5's over the years) and a 2017 Alpine A110 PE.
The NSX and MX5 were definitely purchases made with my rose-tinted 90's spectacles on but, despite this, I do honestly believe their qualities stand the test of time judged on sheer driving pleasure, ability to cope with average roads, ease of maintenance, etc.
The Alpine is a recent flight of fancy, but not one I have any real regrets about so far. I think it could well be a keeper. It does offer a relatively unique driving experience for a modern car and, as an engineer, I love the benefits of the low mass and the design choices they made.
My rose-tinted spectacles proved too strong when I bought a Fiat Cinquecento Sporting (had one as first new car) a few years ago. Fun in that you can give it full beans everywhere just to keep up with traffic, and I taught the kids some basic maintenance jobs with it. But, very uncomfortable, no brakes, and the constant fear of death by SUV.
Before the Alpine, I really tried to like the BMW i8 and Toyota GR86, but never clicked with either.
I guess, when it comes down to it, I enjoy the interior space and refinement of modern vehicles when I'm driving the family bus but, when I'm out for a fun drive, I want something where I can feel the road and enjoy the car's responses. I don't want to have to reach license-losing speeds before I feel the car comes to life.
All that said, I don't despair for the future. Even electric cars will offer fun, even if they maybe have to adopt some electronic tricks to entertain dynamically to make up for the lack of what I call 'driver involvement' (a good gearchange, a pleasing engine note, etc.)
Maybe, in 10 years' time, I will have sampled a game-changing electric sportscar and dropped the rose-tinted specs once and for all? Who knows. The journey is still fun for me though, and the Alpine has shown me that I should not dismiss the current crop of sports cars.
sassthathoopie - really enjoyed reading your posts.
I think my 'fun' car choices are a product of both my age and my driving environment.
My age in that, as a teenager in the late 80's, early 90's, the sports cars from that era remain emotionally those that I am most drawn too and, if I'm honest, I guess that my 'bias' means I will happily overlook some of their compromises.
My driving environment is one of a good mix of rural B and A-roads, many of which are in quite shocking condition. I'm not prepared to put up with fun cars for long which can't handle (my discomfort or the car's lack of composure) these type of roads. If I'm on a new road and have to think twice before I take a turning because I don't know the road, then I guarantee that 'fun' car will not last long with me.
Anyway, just the wrong side of 50 I now find myself with what's probably been my favourite mix of fun cars so far: a 1991 Honda NSX (10 years and counting), a 2005 MX5 NB Sport (have had many other MX5's over the years) and a 2017 Alpine A110 PE.
The NSX and MX5 were definitely purchases made with my rose-tinted 90's spectacles on but, despite this, I do honestly believe their qualities stand the test of time judged on sheer driving pleasure, ability to cope with average roads, ease of maintenance, etc.
The Alpine is a recent flight of fancy, but not one I have any real regrets about so far. I think it could well be a keeper. It does offer a relatively unique driving experience for a modern car and, as an engineer, I love the benefits of the low mass and the design choices they made.
My rose-tinted spectacles proved too strong when I bought a Fiat Cinquecento Sporting (had one as first new car) a few years ago. Fun in that you can give it full beans everywhere just to keep up with traffic, and I taught the kids some basic maintenance jobs with it. But, very uncomfortable, no brakes, and the constant fear of death by SUV.
Before the Alpine, I really tried to like the BMW i8 and Toyota GR86, but never clicked with either.
I guess, when it comes down to it, I enjoy the interior space and refinement of modern vehicles when I'm driving the family bus but, when I'm out for a fun drive, I want something where I can feel the road and enjoy the car's responses. I don't want to have to reach license-losing speeds before I feel the car comes to life.
All that said, I don't despair for the future. Even electric cars will offer fun, even if they maybe have to adopt some electronic tricks to entertain dynamically to make up for the lack of what I call 'driver involvement' (a good gearchange, a pleasing engine note, etc.)
Maybe, in 10 years' time, I will have sampled a game-changing electric sportscar and dropped the rose-tinted specs once and for all? Who knows. The journey is still fun for me though, and the Alpine has shown me that I should not dismiss the current crop of sports cars.
luddite_at_heart said:
An interesting topic!
sassthathoopie - really enjoyed reading your posts.
I think my 'fun' car choices are a product of both my age and my driving environment.
My age in that, as a teenager in the late 80's, early 90's, the sports cars from that era remain emotionally those that I am most drawn too and, if I'm honest, I guess that my 'bias' means I will happily overlook some of their compromises.
My driving environment is one of a good mix of rural B and A-roads, many of which are in quite shocking condition. I'm not prepared to put up with fun cars for long which can't handle (my discomfort or the car's lack of composure) these type of roads. If I'm on a new road and have to think twice before I take a turning because I don't know the road, then I guarantee that 'fun' car will not last long with me.
Anyway, just the wrong side of 50 I now find myself with what's probably been my favourite mix of fun cars so far: a 1991 Honda NSX (10 years and counting), a 2005 MX5 NB Sport (have had many other MX5's over the years) and a 2017 Alpine A110 PE.
The NSX and MX5 were definitely purchases made with my rose-tinted 90's spectacles on but, despite this, I do honestly believe their qualities stand the test of time judged on sheer driving pleasure, ability to cope with average roads, ease of maintenance, etc.
The Alpine is a recent flight of fancy, but not one I have any real regrets about so far. I think it could well be a keeper. It does offer a relatively unique driving experience for a modern car and, as an engineer, I love the benefits of the low mass and the design choices they made.
My rose-tinted spectacles proved too strong when I bought a Fiat Cinquecento Sporting (had one as first new car) a few years ago. Fun in that you can give it full beans everywhere just to keep up with traffic, and I taught the kids some basic maintenance jobs with it. But, very uncomfortable, no brakes, and the constant fear of death by SUV.
Before the Alpine, I really tried to like the BMW i8 and Toyota GR86, but never clicked with either.
I guess, when it comes down to it, I enjoy the interior space and refinement of modern vehicles when I'm driving the family bus but, when I'm out for a fun drive, I want something where I can feel the road and enjoy the car's responses. I don't want to have to reach license-losing speeds before I feel the car comes to life.
All that said, I don't despair for the future. Even electric cars will offer fun, even if they maybe have to adopt some electronic tricks to entertain dynamically to make up for the lack of what I call 'driver involvement' (a good gearchange, a pleasing engine note, etc.)
Maybe, in 10 years' time, I will have sampled a game-changing electric sportscar and dropped the rose-tinted specs once and for all? Who knows. The journey is still fun for me though, and the Alpine has shown me that I should not dismiss the current crop of sports cars.
Disappointing that you label yourself as a luddite and yet have an NSX. The whole point of the NSX was that it was forward looking and iconoclastic at a time when people thought that diva servicing schedules and 1st gears that would not work cold were necessary parts of supercar ownership. The NSX demolished those preconceptions.sassthathoopie - really enjoyed reading your posts.
I think my 'fun' car choices are a product of both my age and my driving environment.
My age in that, as a teenager in the late 80's, early 90's, the sports cars from that era remain emotionally those that I am most drawn too and, if I'm honest, I guess that my 'bias' means I will happily overlook some of their compromises.
My driving environment is one of a good mix of rural B and A-roads, many of which are in quite shocking condition. I'm not prepared to put up with fun cars for long which can't handle (my discomfort or the car's lack of composure) these type of roads. If I'm on a new road and have to think twice before I take a turning because I don't know the road, then I guarantee that 'fun' car will not last long with me.
Anyway, just the wrong side of 50 I now find myself with what's probably been my favourite mix of fun cars so far: a 1991 Honda NSX (10 years and counting), a 2005 MX5 NB Sport (have had many other MX5's over the years) and a 2017 Alpine A110 PE.
The NSX and MX5 were definitely purchases made with my rose-tinted 90's spectacles on but, despite this, I do honestly believe their qualities stand the test of time judged on sheer driving pleasure, ability to cope with average roads, ease of maintenance, etc.
The Alpine is a recent flight of fancy, but not one I have any real regrets about so far. I think it could well be a keeper. It does offer a relatively unique driving experience for a modern car and, as an engineer, I love the benefits of the low mass and the design choices they made.
My rose-tinted spectacles proved too strong when I bought a Fiat Cinquecento Sporting (had one as first new car) a few years ago. Fun in that you can give it full beans everywhere just to keep up with traffic, and I taught the kids some basic maintenance jobs with it. But, very uncomfortable, no brakes, and the constant fear of death by SUV.
Before the Alpine, I really tried to like the BMW i8 and Toyota GR86, but never clicked with either.
I guess, when it comes down to it, I enjoy the interior space and refinement of modern vehicles when I'm driving the family bus but, when I'm out for a fun drive, I want something where I can feel the road and enjoy the car's responses. I don't want to have to reach license-losing speeds before I feel the car comes to life.
All that said, I don't despair for the future. Even electric cars will offer fun, even if they maybe have to adopt some electronic tricks to entertain dynamically to make up for the lack of what I call 'driver involvement' (a good gearchange, a pleasing engine note, etc.)
Maybe, in 10 years' time, I will have sampled a game-changing electric sportscar and dropped the rose-tinted specs once and for all? Who knows. The journey is still fun for me though, and the Alpine has shown me that I should not dismiss the current crop of sports cars.
In the same way EV's are changing how people view transport, whether utility or for enjoyment.
If you like the NSX you really should try an EV, you might like it!
(1991 NSX 16 years and counting, 997.1 and an EV6 GT!)
740EVTORQUES said:
Disappointing that you label yourself as a luddite and yet have an NSX.
It's just a username and not an entirely serious one at that!I'm sorry if you my ownership of an NSX somehow irks you or devalues the brand.
Just trying to share my experiences.
(yes, I don't post much, so I'll crawl back under the rock with my fellow 'luddites')
luddite_at_heart said:
(yes, I don't post much, so I'll crawl back under the rock with my fellow 'luddites')
No need to do that!By my count that makes 4 NSX owners on this thread, and plenty who appreciate an early MX5 too. I had an 8 hour test drive of the new A110 a couple of months before buying the A310. It's a great car, and we'll probably own one at some point, but I did miss the manual gearbox.
911Spanker said:
It's nothing special but I needed a practical family car (with modern comforts like air con etc.. 
).
Upgraded BMW 130i The perfect practical family wagon.
It will look like a POS old BMW so no one will care so I can park it anywhere etc.
Those who know, know. Those who don't know think you are too poor to buy a new one..
This sounds great. I presume it is a 5 door ~2006 ish? ).Upgraded BMW 130i The perfect practical family wagon.
It will look like a POS old BMW so no one will care so I can park it anywhere etc.
Those who know, know. Those who don't know think you are too poor to buy a new one..
luddite_at_heart said:
740EVTORQUES said:
Disappointing that you label yourself as a luddite and yet have an NSX.
It's just a username and not an entirely serious one at that!I'm sorry if you my ownership of an NSX somehow irks you or devalues the brand.
Just trying to share my experiences.
(yes, I don't post much, so I'll crawl back under the rock with my fellow 'luddites')
luddite_at_heart said:
so I'll crawl back under the rock
Yes please Anyone who dares question the abilities of a Cinquecento Sporting has no business on PH
I only had the basic 900cc model so I'm still dreaming about the day I get to drive the full fat 1100cc Sporting in yellow obviously or maybe blue
ATM said:
luddite_at_heart said:
so I'll crawl back under the rock
Yes please Anyone who dares question the abilities of a Cinquecento Sporting has no business on PH
I only had the basic 900cc model so I'm still dreaming about the day I get to drive the full fat 1100cc Sporting in yellow obviously or maybe blue
I’ve driven various Caterham 7s and a 60s Lotus Elan and they’ve probably spoiled me for sports cars made this century. Even a Triumph TR4 which is a bit of a truck by comparison feels about as ‘sports-car-y’ as an NA MX-5.
Maybe if you want an old school sports car, you have to buy an old-school sports car. You’d be amazed how good a Lotus Elan still is.
Maybe if you want an old school sports car, you have to buy an old-school sports car. You’d be amazed how good a Lotus Elan still is.
Hustle_ said:
I’ve driven various Caterham 7s and a 60s Lotus Elan and they’ve probably spoiled me for sports cars made this century. Even a Triumph TR4 which is a bit of a truck by comparison feels about as ‘sports-car-y’ as an NA MX-5.
Maybe if you want an old school sports car, you have to buy an old-school sports car. You’d be amazed how good a Lotus Elan still is.
I had a sit in a TR4 once and it felt pretty good didn't get to drive though. I did test drive a FHC S3 Elan with a Sierra gearbox the same week I bought the Alpine. It was a superb car and I will own one at some stage. A little while later I followed an S4 DHC down the Vale of the White Horse from Uffington headed into Oxfordshire; it was a joy watching that little car monster the bumps and cambers, carrying speed by straightening bends only made possible by the narrow build.Maybe if you want an old school sports car, you have to buy an old-school sports car. You’d be amazed how good a Lotus Elan still is.
Had the Alpine not been a virtually unique offering I may well have gone that way. God knows it wouldn't have required me to become such a google translate expert! Elan info would be much easier to come by.
Has anyone ever driven a Peerless or Warwick?
No, but my perving over the Peerless's kissing cousin, the gorgeous Gordon Keeble has been going on since I first saw one in 1969 ....
On period cars , I drove a Daimler Dart SP 250 a few years ago and while I like the jolie laid looks and the lovely little V8 it was a car which showed its age .Bad steering kickback and flextastic chassis . One of my favourite older school cars was my Clan Crusader - I think its 650kg mass , quick and talkative steering and sheer wieldiness would be a revelation for folk who think 1700kg cars can be called sports cars .
On period cars , I drove a Daimler Dart SP 250 a few years ago and while I like the jolie laid looks and the lovely little V8 it was a car which showed its age .Bad steering kickback and flextastic chassis . One of my favourite older school cars was my Clan Crusader - I think its 650kg mass , quick and talkative steering and sheer wieldiness would be a revelation for folk who think 1700kg cars can be called sports cars .
coppice said:
No, but my perving over the Peerless's kissing cousin, the gorgeous Gordon Keeble has been going on since I first saw one in 1969 ....
On period cars , I drove a Daimler Dart SP 250 a few years ago and while I like the jolie laid looks and the lovely little V8 it was a car which showed its age .Bad steering kickback and flextastic chassis . One of my favourite older school cars was my Clan Crusader - I think its 650kg mass , quick and talkative steering and sheer wieldiness would be a revelation for folk who think 1700kg cars can be called sports cars .
My Alpine search started with thinking about a Ginetta G15 - a cousin of the Clan Crusader. The G15 was successful on race circuits, and the Crusader on rally stages. I decided that there wasn't enough suspension travel and clearance to make the G15 a worry free bumpy back lane car. A Crusader would work better, but the looks aren't for me.On period cars , I drove a Daimler Dart SP 250 a few years ago and while I like the jolie laid looks and the lovely little V8 it was a car which showed its age .Bad steering kickback and flextastic chassis . One of my favourite older school cars was my Clan Crusader - I think its 650kg mass , quick and talkative steering and sheer wieldiness would be a revelation for folk who think 1700kg cars can be called sports cars .
Anorak point 1 - the Clan was also successful in racing , in the Prod Sports series and Johnny Blades also raced a Clan in Modsports
2 The car's genesis was complicated , but it started life as a design study for Lotus as a Seven replacement
Looks are subjective - I loved the G15 too but the Clan's dart like profile and sexy ridged boot swung it for me . As did the fact that LJK Setright was very enthusiastic about the Clan
2 The car's genesis was complicated , but it started life as a design study for Lotus as a Seven replacement
Looks are subjective - I loved the G15 too but the Clan's dart like profile and sexy ridged boot swung it for me . As did the fact that LJK Setright was very enthusiastic about the Clan
paulrockliffe said:
I think I saw a blue one of these last night, I had no idea what it was until I randomly clicked in here this morning!
Was it one of these? They are the only blue ones I can think of in the UK.Unusually RHD
Ex DeLorean Engine Test Car
Used for spints, hillclimbs and the EVO article I linked earlier.
For sale at UK Sportscars until recently - another ex DeLorean engine mule which also tested wheel sizes.
Lovely Gitanes Group 5 Replica
Because I'm in a very pedantic mood (after reading the Range Rover engine thread) I thought I'd throw something leftfield into the mix...
I had one of these for 2 weeks as a rental last summer and I absolutely loved it! Completely unpretentious, hilarious to drive (and you can get the back end out in corners!). I had a grin from ear to ear and was genuinely sad to hand it back at the end of the fortnight!
It's also the complete antithesis of a Range Rover Sport as a family car! Simple and honest.
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/16884196
I had one of these for 2 weeks as a rental last summer and I absolutely loved it! Completely unpretentious, hilarious to drive (and you can get the back end out in corners!). I had a grin from ear to ear and was genuinely sad to hand it back at the end of the fortnight!
It's also the complete antithesis of a Range Rover Sport as a family car! Simple and honest.
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/16884196
Mr Tidy said:
I test drove a GT86 back in 2014 and really liked it, apart from the engine which is supposed to be better in the GR86 so I'm surprised you were underwhelmed by it (although I haven't driven one).
I actually tried the old 86 too. The engine in the new one is definitely faster, but on the flipside, I couldn't FEEL the speed until I was going over 35. And NB Miata programmed me to expect to feel it at over 20.The new GR86 actually felt very slide-able, I felt like it could be lotsa fun if I could slide it on junctions (which is, obviously, a no-no). I imagine it could be a blast to drive on a secluded country road, but most of them are narrow here in the UK with poor visibility (thanks to the mandatory wall of shrubs and 0 or at times negative shoulder), so I wouldn't be having as much fun in it as I would in the old 86.
So overall, the old 86 was better for what I want out of the car.
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