Your car needs discs and pads sir...

Your car needs discs and pads sir...

Author
Discussion

QBee

21,163 posts

147 months

Wednesday 3rd July
quotequote all
FMOB said:
Isn't the real problem that service departments have become quasi-sales departments, yes they have always recommended additional work during the service as they can see the true condition of the vehicle.

The problem here is the incentive schemes that the technicians/mechanics have, being incentivised on selling more parts is open to abuse, management see increased revenue so see no reason to change it as it is working from their narrow viewpoint.

As a customer, we see the constant double glazing style up selling which I would guess >70% of it is unecessary work.
I took my newly acquired E class Mercedes into the dealer for a "free winter health check".
It wasn't in the first first flush of youth, and nor am I, but it was new to me so I thought it a good idea to see if all was well.
2+ hours later out came a service guy with three pages of problems closely typed and an estimate for £1,610.
I thanked them and said I would have a think about it.

Instead I took it to my local garage where the good old Norfolk boys put it up on the ramp and had a look.
10 minutes later they emerged (laughing) with the list and said "rear brake pads are a bit marginal, that will be £37 to change them if you can pop back in tomorrow".

paulguitar

24,458 posts

116 months

Wednesday 3rd July
quotequote all
QBee said:
I took my newly acquired E class Mercedes into the dealer for a "free winter health check".
It wasn't in the first first flush of youth, and nor am I, but it was new to me so I thought it a good idea to see if all was well.
2+ hours later out came a service guy with three pages of problems closely typed and an estimate for £1,610.
I thanked them and said I would have a think about it.

Instead I took it to my local garage where the good old Norfolk boys put it up on the ramp and had a look.
10 minutes later they emerged (laughing) with the list and said "rear brake pads are a bit marginal, that will be £37 to change them if you can pop back in tomorrow".
I had a similar sort of thing with my Jaguar XK. The main dealer quoted £7,200 after the health check. I got it all done for £850.



BunkMoreland

504 posts

10 months

Wednesday 3rd July
quotequote all
QBee said:
Most of the profit in car dealerships is made by the service department.

Many of the new cars sold, particular premium brands, are sold to companies.
Contract hire companies will have their own systems.
But for companies buying their cars themselves, the amount charged for servicing in the first three to four years only has to pass the company authorisation process.
By the time the company accountant/manager sees the bill it has already been paid on the driver's company credit card.
So any argument about the amount charged starts from that weak position.

And when the company comes to part ex the car after three years to buy the next one, a key part of the deal is "does the car have full franchised dealer service history?"
This info is way out of date. No customers pay on their credit card and claim back from their fleet manager anymore.

And ask anybody whose dealt with 1Link how much of a bunch of "ahems" they are when it comes to authorising work a) to the costs quoted or b) within about 3 hours!

On a side note, dealer management ONLY care about Sales departments. They are the onsite gods and must be treated with deference. With their fake smiles, excessive hair product, lack of knowledge, awful outfits and inability to be honest.

Whereas the techs who went to college/did apprenticeships have YEARS of experience. Have partaken thousands of hours of dealer manufacturer training at such sunny locations as Milton Keynes and Reading. Can diagnose 50 faults on 10 different cars in a range on everything from a minor oil leak to a FlexRay issue to stripping down a 400V HV battery without killing themselves are "just dirty scum"

(And all for around 10% of the total labour charge paid to the dealer as wages!)

The bonuses from the manufacturers are pretty sizeable to be fair. I knew a guy working for a company, actually one of the few guys Id suggest people chat with if they wanted a new car, and if he shifted a specific £150K car he got £2K extra! Though that got canned a while ago

FMOB said:
As a customer, we see the constant double glazing style up selling which I would guess >70% of it is unecessary work.
And thats why nowadays dealers insist on the walk around videos. Anyone with a bit of knowledge will be able to tell.

QBee said:
I took my newly acquired E class Mercedes into the dealer for a "free winter health check".
It wasn't in the first first flush of youth, and nor am I, but it was new to me so I thought it a good idea to see if all was well.
2+ hours later out came a service guy with three pages of problems closely typed and an estimate for £1,610.
I thanked them and said I would have a think about it.

Instead I took it to my local garage where the good old Norfolk boys put it up on the ramp and had a look.
10 minutes later they emerged (laughing) with the list and said "rear brake pads are a bit marginal, that will be £37 to change them if you can pop back in tomorrow".
£37! Are they made out of balsa wood?!?!

Even EBC/pagid pads from ECP are going to be £50-80. Plus a half hour labour is going to be even at a back street close to £40ish

Fundamentally though the team at the dealer is a bit thick. A car that ONLY comes in a for a free check, and is over about 5-8 years old is NEVER going to get the work done. A waste of time to bother writing up everything.

Pan Pan Pan

10,029 posts

114 months

Thursday
quotequote all
I wonder how many people do get caught by dealerships, or garages like the one mentioned by the OP?
A dealership I went to, told me my cam belt needed to be changed. Since the car had only done 5 thousand miles since the last time it was changed, I asked the dealer if new cam belts, now only had the ability to last for 6 thousand miles.
He looked offended and said of course not!. So I asked why, when it was the very same dealership which had fitted the last cam belt his dealership was telling me my cam belt needed to be changed. He just went red and spluttered a bit. Some (but fortunately not all) dealerships are absolutely rubbish.

FMOB

1,249 posts

15 months

Thursday
quotequote all
BunkMoreland said:
QBee said:
Most of the profit in car dealerships is made by the service department.

Many of the new cars sold, particular premium brands, are sold to companies.
Contract hire companies will have their own systems.
But for companies buying their cars themselves, the amount charged for servicing in the first three to four years only has to pass the company authorisation process.
By the time the company accountant/manager sees the bill it has already been paid on the driver's company credit card.
So any argument about the amount charged starts from that weak position.

And when the company comes to part ex the car after three years to buy the next one, a key part of the deal is "does the car have full franchised dealer service history?"
This info is way out of date. No customers pay on their credit card and claim back from their fleet manager anymore.

And ask anybody whose dealt with 1Link how much of a bunch of "ahems" they are when it comes to authorising work a) to the costs quoted or b) within about 3 hours!

On a side note, dealer management ONLY care about Sales departments. They are the onsite gods and must be treated with deference. With their fake smiles, excessive hair product, lack of knowledge, awful outfits and inability to be honest.

Whereas the techs who went to college/did apprenticeships have YEARS of experience. Have partaken thousands of hours of dealer manufacturer training at such sunny locations as Milton Keynes and Reading. Can diagnose 50 faults on 10 different cars in a range on everything from a minor oil leak to a FlexRay issue to stripping down a 400V HV battery without killing themselves are "just dirty scum"

(And all for around 10% of the total labour charge paid to the dealer as wages!)

The bonuses from the manufacturers are pretty sizeable to be fair. I knew a guy working for a company, actually one of the few guys Id suggest people chat with if they wanted a new car, and if he shifted a specific £150K car he got £2K extra! Though that got canned a while ago

FMOB said:
As a customer, we see the constant double glazing style up selling which I would guess >70% of it is unecessary work.
And thats why nowadays dealers insist on the walk around videos. Anyone with a bit of knowledge will be able to tell.

QBee said:
I took my newly acquired E class Mercedes into the dealer for a "free winter health check".
It wasn't in the first first flush of youth, and nor am I, but it was new to me so I thought it a good idea to see if all was well.
2+ hours later out came a service guy with three pages of problems closely typed and an estimate for £1,610.
I thanked them and said I would have a think about it.

Instead I took it to my local garage where the good old Norfolk boys put it up on the ramp and had a look.
10 minutes later they emerged (laughing) with the list and said "rear brake pads are a bit marginal, that will be £37 to change them if you can pop back in tomorrow".
£37! Are they made out of balsa wood?!?!

Even EBC/pagid pads from ECP are going to be £50-80. Plus a half hour labour is going to be even at a back street close to £40ish

Fundamentally though the team at the dealer is a bit thick. A car that ONLY comes in a for a free check, and is over about 5-8 years old is NEVER going to get the work done. A waste of time to bother writing up everything.
You can really see so much detail in a 30 second walk around video that just shows you 4 tyres. As for having a bit of knowledge, most people just don't have the knowledge and/or the confidence to challenge the interpretation from the service advisor let alone get to speak directly to the technician.

Personally I have no issue with tearing a dealer a new one if the old BS'ometer starts working but prefer using a garage I trust and will get under the car and show me the issue.

RayDonovan

4,589 posts

218 months

Thursday
quotequote all
The single advantage of still being in a company car..

POIDH

866 posts

68 months

Thursday
quotequote all
We have had our new to us and Cinch supplied Fabia in for a small warranty issue- the window switch broke.

The dealer at the end of the day and walk around video claimed one tyre low on tread and one with a nail in, plus of course obligatory front pads and discs. My wife who picked the car up was warned it was 'not safe', but she is confident enough to tell them I and our usual garage would be the judge of that.

She declined their repair and I booked in into my local, trusted independent who we have used for 10 years. He agreed that one tyre was more worn - but he was more worried about the age related cracks, not wearing out, something the dealer had not picked up. No sign of a puncture and pads and discs were fine - less than half worn apparently.

I then went around corner to our trusted, used for 10 years tyre dealer who popped a pair of new tyres on - the older one and the one 'with a nail in'. No sign of any damage on the 'punctured' tyre - they even showed me the tyre and offered not to replace it. I went with a new matching pair anyway.

Then yesterday I dropped one of my staff off at the same dealer to collect his 4 year old car. Guess what he just walked in the office and told me he paid for? Yes, new discs and pads and a new tyre as it had a nail in it...

So it seems main stealers are still up to said tricks...

QBee

21,163 posts

147 months

Thursday
quotequote all
The only justification on a service for changing anything half worn is if it won't safely make it to the next service.
Many drivers never think to check anything between services.
With 20,000 mile intervals on some cars it's more of an issue than it was in years gone past.

LeeM135i

605 posts

57 months

Thursday
quotequote all
Had my car serviced at Mercedes main dealer this year, they picked up the rear tyres were severely worn which is interesting as they fitted them 2 years ago and its only covered 6,000 miles so I asked they to leave it and I would have a look when I picked it up. The 'health check' shows the tyres have more tread on them this year than last so I asked why they weren't severely worn last year? The guy at the service desk went out the back had a chat with whoever and came back to say it was to do with the age of the tyres and as they are now 2 years old I should think about replacing them........

The car lives in the garage when it's not being used so no UV damage to the tyres and they still have most of the little tags on them from when they were made. Going to go to the local indie next year as the car is 6 years old and this is taking the pee.

My wides car 'needed' 4 new tyres and front brakes when it was 2 years old and had covered 15,000 miles. We declined the work and it's now hit 35,000 and has the original rear tyres on it which should have been replaced 3 years and 20,000 miles ago but they are starting to crack from age so will need replacing before the winter. It's a B class Mercedes and she drives it like the slow people carrier thing it is so its wear and tare maintenance should be minimal.

Maxdecel

1,354 posts

36 months

Thursday
quotequote all
LeeM135i said:
...... The 'health check' shows the tyres have more tread on them this year than last so I asked why they weren't severely worn last year? The guy at the service desk went out the back had a chat with whoever and came back to say it was to do with the age of the tyres and as they are now 2 years old I should think about replacing them........
Surely that's connected to inflation smile

Gordon Hill

1,078 posts

18 months

Thursday
quotequote all
Maxdecel said:
LeeM135i said:
...... The 'health check' shows the tyres have more tread on them this year than last so I asked why they weren't severely worn last year? The guy at the service desk went out the back had a chat with whoever and came back to say it was to do with the age of the tyres and as they are now 2 years old I should think about replacing them........
Surely that's connected to inflation smile
Aye everything's gone up.

Sheepshanks

33,344 posts

122 months

Thursday
quotequote all
POIDH said:
We have had our new to us and Cinch supplied Fabia in for a small warranty issue- the window switch broke.

The dealer at the end of the day and walk around video claimed one tyre low on tread and one with a nail in, plus of course obligatory front pads and discs. My wife who picked the car up was warned it was 'not safe', but she is confident enough to tell them I and our usual garage would be the judge of that.

She declined their repair and I booked in into my local, trusted independent who we have used for 10 years. He agreed that one tyre was more worn - but he was more worried about the age related cracks, not wearing out, something the dealer had not picked up. No sign of a puncture and pads and discs were fine - less than half worn apparently.

I then went around corner to our trusted, used for 10 years tyre dealer who popped a pair of new tyres on - the older one and the one 'with a nail in'. No sign of any damage on the 'punctured' tyre - they even showed me the tyre and offered not to replace it. I went with a new matching pair anyway.

Then yesterday I dropped one of my staff off at the same dealer to collect his 4 year old car. Guess what he just walked in the office and told me he paid for? Yes, new discs and pads and a new tyre as it had a nail in it...

So it seems main stealers are still up to said tricks...
That's outrageous. Do similar stories crop up in their reviews?


Bobupndown

1,939 posts

46 months

Thursday
quotequote all
Gordon Hill said:
Maxdecel said:
LeeM135i said:
...... The 'health check' shows the tyres have more tread on them this year than last so I asked why they weren't severely worn last year? The guy at the service desk went out the back had a chat with whoever and came back to say it was to do with the age of the tyres and as they are now 2 years old I should think about replacing them........
Surely that's connected to inflation smile
Aye everything's gone up.
What dealer is that? Might book mine in for their tyre regeneration service!

LeeM135i

605 posts

57 months

Thursday
quotequote all
Bobupndown said:
Gordon Hill said:
Maxdecel said:
LeeM135i said:
...... The 'health check' shows the tyres have more tread on them this year than last so I asked why they weren't severely worn last year? The guy at the service desk went out the back had a chat with whoever and came back to say it was to do with the age of the tyres and as they are now 2 years old I should think about replacing them........
Surely that's connected to inflation smile
Aye everything's gone up.
What dealer is that? Might book mine in for their tyre regeneration service!
Love it, Mercedes Maidstone if you want to try your luck!

Paulm4

331 posts

160 months

Thursday
quotequote all
A few years ago I bought the first of my Mk1 TT's. I'd had it a few days and it developed a slight misfire, a few mins on Google suggested the coil packs were subject to a recall so I booked it in to the only Audi dealer within 100 miles. They had the car all day and actually only changed the coils as I was in the waiting room at 5pm.
They then sent me a health check video, pointing out rusty bolts on the exhaust etc (on a 17 year old car!). I politely declined any other work and set off home.

The next day, when crawling underneath to change the oil I noticed that the 2 front tyres had huge cracks and had started to delaminate on the inside side walls to the point where the casings were clearly visible.

I must be the only person in history to not get an upsell when I genuinely needed it and I was also pretty annoyed that the "health check" didn't even notice!