Bahnstorming Speeds

[Mr Tidy]

LunarOne said:

While I'm no proponent of the "speed kills" mantra by any stretch, there is a difference. In Germany drivers have far better lane Discipline because they know that there's a strong possibility of a car coming up behind them doing 100km/h+ faster than they are. And because drivers are expecting faster traffic, they deal with it better.

I've said it time and time again over the years on PH, but the reason we have shocking lane discipline in the UK is as simple as our speed limit being too low. Everyone is happy to dawdle in the outside lane because they believe nobody ought to be going faster. If there were a higher speed limit (I'd advocate for no less than 90MPH), that would be above the 85th percentile speed and so many people wouldn't feel that they had the right to occupy the outside lane ad nauseum.

TBF dawdling MLMs don't help either because they make people doing 65/70 or so move into the outside lane to get past them, but I agree the speed limit should be considerably higher given the capabilities of modern cars compared to cars from 1965 when the 70 limit came into force on a temporary basis.

[21st Century Man]

My car is JDM limited to 180kph, which is OK on the autobahn but a little more would be nice. Main issue is that I can't just keep it planted as the limiter feels like a nasty misfire, so I have to feather the throttle to keep it just off the limiter, which takes some effort and is a pain. Cruising at 200kph would probably be about right for it if it wasn't limited, with loads in reserve.

[dxg]

I've found that my car (MX5 ND) has a "natural" (as in, when the car feels relaxed; just cruising along not under any undue stress) is around 65mph.

I guess I need a bigger car.

[Davie]

I've driven through Germany a few times and the first trip was an eye opener both in terms of the general pace of your average driver in certain places and the much improved attitude and discipline, more so that a car closing in indicating left or with a wee headlight flash is the norm - over here some Norman would just continue to sit at 67mph either a "I'm going the speed limit so I'm not moving" stance. Or such moves would trigger somebody to go full road rage.

I sat at about 100mph, beyond that was pretty heavy going even in sections with very little traffic so to those who can sit at much higher speeds, fair play. Oddly, when my wife joined me for her first autobahn experience she really wasn't keen with anything above 80mph but didn't take long to realise that it's a very difficult experience over there and 80mph is probably fairly slow. She was fine at 100mph+ but tapped out at 130mph! The closing speed towards the back of Hungarian lorries was a bit much for her.

The longest / quickest stint I did was with a couple of mates headed home one year where we tagged on behind an A8 and that was 130mph region for about 20mins, which in the bigger scale is no time at all but that was pretty heavy going as far as driver fatigue went. Granted at such speeds you're absolutely alert but that becomes pretty tiring.

The stark contrast when you roll off the boat and are back doing 70mph is insane. Big empty stretches of the M6 north feels like you're barely moving... but conversely, doing 70mph in sections where it's like the wacky races feels like a suicide mission. I definitely felt more aware and alert cruising at speed in Germany, whereas here a long biting stint at 70mph and you feel your brain start to switch off much faster.

[Louis Balfour]

matrignano said:

I’m surprised how many said they feel unsafe above 100mph in I assume a modern and well maintained car!

Is it an age thing? Younger drivers perhaps less confident than older ones?
Or is it because of a lack of practice, for those in the UK at least?

Until the late 90s, 100+ mph long distance cruising was not stressful, even on UK roads. The advent of speed cameras made it so, and more recently even lower speeds are made uncomfortable by the entitled drivers with poor lane discipline pulling out, without looking. Add into the mix potholes and higher speed driving does indeed feel unsafe. Its not about the cars, it’s environmental.

[ManualOnly]

M11rph said:

There's a lot of variables, but given good conditions I'm happy at around 220-230 kph for long periods with the occasional squirt further around the speedo.


So I'll put my neck out and offer this. A 5 minute bit of Autobahning which I'd consider quite representative of a quick day.

Light traffic, some worn patched areas of the surface not particularly smooth, half-joints on bridge sections require respect, good weather and light winds although on the valley sections you still get crosswinds.

288 km/h indicated, not bad at all.
I just put up a short video of Autobahning due to this thread. A7 Hamburg towards Hannover, heading to the Ring
Speed is lower and the scenery ain't that beautiful but still, there is something magical about driving on the Autobahn!

[Blown2CV]

Louis Balfour said:

matrignano said:

I’m surprised how many said they feel unsafe above 100mph in I assume a modern and well maintained car!

Is it an age thing? Younger drivers perhaps less confident than older ones?
Or is it because of a lack of practice, for those in the UK at least?

Until the late 90s, 100+ mph long distance cruising was not stressful, even on UK roads. The advent of speed cameras made it so, and more recently even lower speeds are made uncomfortable by the entitled drivers with poor lane discipline pulling out, without looking. Add into the mix potholes and higher speed driving does indeed feel unsafe. Its not about the cars, it’s environmental.

I agree. Lots of traffic and everyone doing the same speed or within a few mph is potentially more dangerous than lesser traffic but with cars doing different speeds and overtaking / being overtaken properly.

[cerb4.5lee]

Blown2CV said:

Louis Balfour said:

matrignano said:

I’m surprised how many said they feel unsafe above 100mph in I assume a modern and well maintained car!

Is it an age thing? Younger drivers perhaps less confident than older ones?
Or is it because of a lack of practice, for those in the UK at least?

Until the late 90s, 100+ mph long distance cruising was not stressful, even on UK roads. The advent of speed cameras made it so, and more recently even lower speeds are made uncomfortable by the entitled drivers with poor lane discipline pulling out, without looking. Add into the mix potholes and higher speed driving does indeed feel unsafe. Its not about the cars, it’s environmental.

I agree. Lots of traffic and everyone doing the same speed or within a few mph is potentially more dangerous than lesser traffic but with cars doing different speeds and overtaking / being overtaken properly.

Also almost everywhere I go around me now, the speed limits are lower than they used to be. So many roads that used to be the national speed limit are now either 50mph or 40mph in comparison. So that just ends up slowing everyone down and bunching everyone up. It is bloody frustrating I reckon.

[Blown2CV]

cerb4.5lee said:

Blown2CV said:

Louis Balfour said:

matrignano said:

I’m surprised how many said they feel unsafe above 100mph in I assume a modern and well maintained car!

Is it an age thing? Younger drivers perhaps less confident than older ones?
Or is it because of a lack of practice, for those in the UK at least?

Until the late 90s, 100+ mph long distance cruising was not stressful, even on UK roads. The advent of speed cameras made it so, and more recently even lower speeds are made uncomfortable by the entitled drivers with poor lane discipline pulling out, without looking. Add into the mix potholes and higher speed driving does indeed feel unsafe. Its not about the cars, it’s environmental.

I agree. Lots of traffic and everyone doing the same speed or within a few mph is potentially more dangerous than lesser traffic but with cars doing different speeds and overtaking / being overtaken properly.

Also almost everywhere I go around me now, the speed limits are lower than they used to be. So many roads that used to be the national speed limit are now either 50mph or 40mph in comparison. So that just ends up slowing everyone down and bunching everyone up. It is bloody frustrating I reckon.

There is a place near me where they dropped a NSL to 40 for no good reason, and then put in a 50 for no reason just ahead of it. It changes just as you round a bend, and then there is a clear, long and wide section where the police camera van sits way in the distance in a comfy little lay-by, pinging every single driver. It is a fking NSL road, and people drive according to the attributes it has. Except we're all wrong, clearly.

Both my wife and I have had no points on our licenses for over 15 years and we've both been nabbed in the last 3 months.

It's a common moan amongst grumpy old petrolheads that this st is all designed to earn public revenue, but that's exactly what it is. Except now it's really obviously stting on the ability of the road network to get people around.

[cherryowen]

dxg said:

I've found that my car (MX5 ND) has a "natural" (as in, when the car feels relaxed; just cruising along not under any undue stress) is around 65mph.

I guess I need a bigger car.

[anecdote]Back in early summer 2020, the roads were unusually quiet for some reason I choose to forget, and I altered my drive home from the office to take in the A5 rather than the motorway. One particularly agreeable evening (the weather was bloody lovely in those few crazy lockdown months), I approached a long, open, stretch of the A5 and decided to do what you did - to find out what the "natural" comfortable speed for my car (a Saab 9-3 Aero which I still have) was, as I'd only had it a month.

Anyway. All I did was "rest" my right foot on the gas without adding undue pressure. The result was a relaxed 105 at just under 3k rpm.[/anecdote]

[Heaveho]

Foreign lands in general used to be happy hunting grounds for big numbers around the time I was living in Crete between 2006 and 2008. I drove to and from there pretty regularly from Southampton from maybe '04 to 2012, using various routes to see different countries. Italy always felt the most encouraging to me for doing ridiculous speeds. I feel as vulnerable to capture abroad as I do here now.

I'm not really affected by the sensation of very high speed in cars, maybe motorbikes cured me of that. Having slowed a bit after several attempts at 200, 170, as bizarre as it sounds, really felt much slower than that. Ridiculous, but I can remember feeling how slow it seemed after multiple runs above that.

[toasty]

Blown2CV said:

There is a place near me where they dropped a NSL to 40 for no good reason, and then put in a 50 for no reason just ahead of it. It changes just as you round a bend, and then there is a clear, long and wide section where the police camera van sits way in the distance in a comfy little lay-by, pinging every single driver. It is a fking NSL road, and people drive according to the attributes it has. Except we're all wrong, clearly.

Both my wife and I have had no points on our licenses for over 15 years and we've both been nabbed in the last 3 months.

It's a common moan amongst grumpy old petrolheads that this st is all designed to earn public revenue, but that's exactly what it is. Except now it's really obviously stting on the ability of the road network to get people around.

In my area, its the residents association that has campaigned for lower limits. We had a recommendation from the council, endorsed by the police, to increase a local limit from 40mph to 50mph that was blocked by the RA.

We had the RA rep knocking on doors recently to try and get our vote in the local elections. He asked how the area could be improved. Evidently, high speed limits and fewer cameras were not what he was expecting. He left, flummoxed, saying we were clearly at loggerheads.

[Unreal]

toasty said:

Blown2CV said:

There is a place near me where they dropped a NSL to 40 for no good reason, and then put in a 50 for no reason just ahead of it. It changes just as you round a bend, and then there is a clear, long and wide section where the police camera van sits way in the distance in a comfy little lay-by, pinging every single driver. It is a fking NSL road, and people drive according to the attributes it has. Except we're all wrong, clearly.

Both my wife and I have had no points on our licenses for over 15 years and we've both been nabbed in the last 3 months.

It's a common moan amongst grumpy old petrolheads that this st is all designed to earn public revenue, but that's exactly what it is. Except now it's really obviously stting on the ability of the road network to get people around.

In my area, its the residents association that has campaigned for lower limits. We had a recommendation from the council, endorsed by the police, to increase a local limit from 40mph to 50mph that was blocked by the RA.

We had the RA rep knocking on doors recently to try and get our vote in the local elections. He asked how the area could be improved. Evidently, high speed limits and fewer cameras were not what he was expecting. He left, flummoxed, saying we were clearly at loggerheads.

If I ever get to a stage in my life where I genuine have nothing to do for a few weeks, I think I'll dig into the whole placing of safety cameras things.

As things stand, all of my experience tells me that that their placement is flawed (from a safety not revenue perspective), along with many of the speed limits being imposed. Other posters will probably know what I mean. They know where the accidents and bad driving occurs and all too often it's not aligned with limits and cameras. At the same time, if the objective is catch people out in the sneakiest way possible, camera placement is usually spot on.

[Byker28i]

dxg said:

I've found that my car (MX5 ND) has a "natural" (as in, when the car feels relaxed; just cruising along not under any undue stress) is around 65mph.

I guess I need a bigger car.

Our old Mazda6 estate had a natural cruise speed around there where you needed to use very little throttle and it did the best MPG around the speed the emissions testing was at

Our little 1.6 Seat Leon estate likes around 80mph as a cruise, handy with all our trips into Belgium.

[GeniusOfLove]

Heaveho said:

I'm not really affected by the sensation of very high speed in cars, maybe motorbikes cured me of that. Having slowed a bit after several attempts at 200, 170, as bizarre as it sounds, really felt much slower than that. Ridiculous, but I can remember feeling how slow it seemed after multiple runs above that.

I've often noticed that, you're hammering along at 140mph+ making happy progress and slow down to what feels like walking pace ready for a slip road but find out it's actually 90MPH. If you've been going really fast you settle back down to what feels like a "sensible" speed and think what a good boy you're being and it's 120MPH

[Blown2CV]

Unreal said:

toasty said:

Blown2CV said:

There is a place near me where they dropped a NSL to 40 for no good reason, and then put in a 50 for no reason just ahead of it. It changes just as you round a bend, and then there is a clear, long and wide section where the police camera van sits way in the distance in a comfy little lay-by, pinging every single driver. It is a fking NSL road, and people drive according to the attributes it has. Except we're all wrong, clearly.

Both my wife and I have had no points on our licenses for over 15 years and we've both been nabbed in the last 3 months.

It's a common moan amongst grumpy old petrolheads that this st is all designed to earn public revenue, but that's exactly what it is. Except now it's really obviously stting on the ability of the road network to get people around.

In my area, its the residents association that has campaigned for lower limits. We had a recommendation from the council, endorsed by the police, to increase a local limit from 40mph to 50mph that was blocked by the RA.

We had the RA rep knocking on doors recently to try and get our vote in the local elections. He asked how the area could be improved. Evidently, high speed limits and fewer cameras were not what he was expecting. He left, flummoxed, saying we were clearly at loggerheads.

If I ever get to a stage in my life where I genuine have nothing to do for a few weeks, I think I'll dig into the whole placing of safety cameras things.

As things stand, all of my experience tells me that that their placement is flawed (from a safety not revenue perspective), along with many of the speed limits being imposed. Other posters will probably know what I mean. They know where the accidents and bad driving occurs and all too often it's not aligned with limits and cameras. At the same time, if the objective is catch people out in the sneakiest way possible, camera placement is usually spot on.

the newly installed ones and the camera van regular spots are all designed to surprise as many drivers as possible. I believe therefore they are often in places where drivers feel more comfortable speeding (so, safer stretches of road) but aren't aware the speed trap is there until it's too late. I guess it's always been called 'trap' for a reason.

It feels that most of modern government legisulature is designed to con, trap, catch out, trick and swindle well-meaning citizens.

[wc98]

GeniusOfLove said:

Heaveho said:

I'm not really affected by the sensation of very high speed in cars, maybe motorbikes cured me of that. Having slowed a bit after several attempts at 200, 170, as bizarre as it sounds, really felt much slower than that. Ridiculous, but I can remember feeling how slow it seemed after multiple runs above that.

I've often noticed that, you're hammering along at 140mph+ making happy progress and slow down to what feels like walking pace ready for a slip road but find out it's actually 90MPH. If you've been going really fast you settle back down to what feels like a "sensible" speed and think what a good boy you're being and it's 120MPH

This is the bit people that haven't done a lot of 150mph stuff don't get. The other thing is high speed in the rain, especially on the bike on decent twisties, then the weather improves and the roads get hot and dry, it feels virtually impossible to crash because the grip level feels like it has increased so much. Your forward planning has to be on point but your brain (even mine) adapts to the speed and how you process all the info you are picking up at that speed. When driving/riding at the more sedate speeds seen on our crowded pot hole ridden roads today it feels like the world is in slow motion so it's not hard at all to deal with anything untoward happening ahead because you are already way ahead of it.

I wonder how many people have a new to them vehicle routine that involves braking to the point of lock up from all speeds up to as fast as it will go, car only for me but deliberate traction loss in a variety of conditions from warm and dry to cold and wet all to familiarise yourself how it will react in any situation. The people that have never had a loss of traction or locked brakes are far more liable to end up in the poo if the first time any of those events occur is in an emergency situation.

[wc98]

Unreal said:

toasty said:

Blown2CV said:

There is a place near me where they dropped a NSL to 40 for no good reason, and then put in a 50 for no reason just ahead of it. It changes just as you round a bend, and then there is a clear, long and wide section where the police camera van sits way in the distance in a comfy little lay-by, pinging every single driver. It is a fking NSL road, and people drive according to the attributes it has. Except we're all wrong, clearly.

Both my wife and I have had no points on our licenses for over 15 years and we've both been nabbed in the last 3 months.

It's a common moan amongst grumpy old petrolheads that this st is all designed to earn public revenue, but that's exactly what it is. Except now it's really obviously stting on the ability of the road network to get people around.

In my area, its the residents association that has campaigned for lower limits. We had a recommendation from the council, endorsed by the police, to increase a local limit from 40mph to 50mph that was blocked by the RA.

We had the RA rep knocking on doors recently to try and get our vote in the local elections. He asked how the area could be improved. Evidently, high speed limits and fewer cameras were not what he was expecting. He left, flummoxed, saying we were clearly at loggerheads.

If I ever get to a stage in my life where I genuine have nothing to do for a few weeks, I think I'll dig into the whole placing of safety cameras things.

As things stand, all of my experience tells me that that their placement is flawed (from a safety not revenue perspective), along with many of the speed limits being imposed. Other posters will probably know what I mean. They know where the accidents and bad driving occurs and all too often it's not aligned with limits and cameras. At the same time, if the objective is catch people out in the sneakiest way possible, camera placement is usually spot on.

I've made a conscious deliberate decision to ignore all new lower speed limits on local roads where there has been no physical change prior to the limit being lowered, every single time i use them ( to be fair there are only two that meet that criteria). It will definitely bite me in the arse at some point, quite hard, as i intend pleading not guilty and going to court deliberately.

I will achieve absolutely nothing but greater cost to my self for doing this, but i will get to tell the judge my reasons why i speed on those particular roads and why i will continue to do so. Might end up getting some tax dollars back in the form of free accommodation and food for a spell so apologies in advance if i increase all your tax burdens Same if road pricing comes in on top of road tax (please, please don't anyone start an it's not road tax or general taxation argument, i won't be responding) as that is another red line for me.

[Unreal]

wc98 said:

GeniusOfLove said:

Heaveho said:

I'm not really affected by the sensation of very high speed in cars, maybe motorbikes cured me of that. Having slowed a bit after several attempts at 200, 170, as bizarre as it sounds, really felt much slower than that. Ridiculous, but I can remember feeling how slow it seemed after multiple runs above that.

I've often noticed that, you're hammering along at 140mph+ making happy progress and slow down to what feels like walking pace ready for a slip road but find out it's actually 90MPH. If you've been going really fast you settle back down to what feels like a "sensible" speed and think what a good boy you're being and it's 120MPH

This is the bit people that haven't done a lot of 150mph stuff don't get. The other thing is high speed in the rain, especially on the bike on decent twisties, then the weather improves and the roads get hot and dry, it feels virtually impossible to crash because the grip level feels like it has increased so much. Your forward planning has to be on point but your brain (even mine) adapts to the speed and how you process all the info you are picking up at that speed. When driving/riding at the more sedate speeds seen on our crowded pot hole ridden roads today it feels like the world is in slow motion so it's not hard at all to deal with anything untoward happening ahead because you are already way ahead of it.

I wonder how many people have a new to them vehicle routine that involves braking to the point of lock up from all speeds up to as fast as it will go, car only for me but deliberate traction loss in a variety of conditions from warm and dry to cold and wet all to familiarise yourself how it will react in any situation. The people that have never had a loss of traction or locked brakes are far more liable to end up in the poo if the first time any of those events occur is in an emergency situation.

I see no attraction whatsoever in prolonged very high speed driving on predominantly straight roads, populated by other vehicles doing different speeds and driven by people of very mixed ability.

I'm not talking about a steady 90mph on say an autoroute. That's fine and strikes the right balance between remaining comfortable and reducing journey time. Anytime I need to maintain the highest possible levels of concentration for prolonged periods and where a lapse could have the most devastating consequences suggests I shouldn't be on a public road. Of course a crash at 30 can have devastating consequences but I can have a conversation with a passenger at 30mph, not at 160mph. On a track, where everyone is in the same boat and with the same mindset, then fine, crack on.

It's a bit like being a young driver and when you want to see your first ton and then wanting to find out your car's maximum speed. Loses appeal when you get older. I can have enough fun barely breaking the limit on most roads.

[wc98]

Unreal said:

I see no attraction whatsoever in prolonged very high speed driving on predominantly straight roads, populated by other vehicles doing different speeds and driven by people of very mixed ability.

I'm not talking about a steady 90mph on say an autoroute. That's fine and strikes the right balance between remaining comfortable and reducing journey time. Anytime I need to maintain the highest possible levels of concentration for prolonged periods and where a lapse could have the most devastating consequences suggests I shouldn't be on a public road. Of course a crash at 30 can have devastating consequences but I can have a conversation with a passenger at 30mph, not at 160mph. On a track, where everyone is in the same boat and with the same mindset, then fine, crack on.

It's a bit like being a young driver and when you want to see your first ton and then wanting to find out your car's maximum speed. Loses appeal when you get older. I can have enough fun barely breaking the limit on most roads.

I agree when it comes to cars, on the bike with no passengers it is a lot of fun and the speed is a function of the road you are on. Outside of seeing how quick we could get to the roundabout outside a town 18 miles away and back on the bikes one evening many years ago for a laugh high speed straight line stuff is boring plus it puts a flat on the rear tyre on the bike. I don't own anything remotely quick these days but still enjoy driving and putting proper lines together down interesting roads.

Had a much better 180 mile drive home in the middle of the afternoon than anticipated yesterday and never saw more than 20mph above the nsl on the A roads or motorway stretches. The highlight was the lovely small stretch just outside Locharbriggs (whoever designed that bit of road needs a medal) when doing a mirror check a Police car with lights going (to my shame not sure if a BMW X thing or big Volvo XC) came barrelling round the corner behind literally on it's ribs. You won't see much above the speed limit in an ordinary sub 120 hp family car along there so a quick halt to let him past and smile at it going full tilt round the next bend, was a pleasure to watch him dealing with the traffic along the next few miles until we reached the car on it's side at a small junction and they jumped out to secure the scene.

It took me a long time to be able to string the sequence of bends together on that small stretch of road to the best of my ability, no brakes, just smooth through all the bends from turn in point to apex to exit point that positions for the next bend. Great fun and keeps me concentrating on the job in hand, not playing about with my in car entertainment or phone like so many utterly incompetent imbeciles i saw on the road yesterday. Some were unable to drive in a straight line within their lane on a dry clear day. I worry far more about them than i do someone going a bit quickly giving their driving their full attention with proper forward planning.

I spend a lot of time in that area at daft o clock when i am fishing, some of the best roads in the country with no traffic on them. I've done 50 miles without seeing another car on the rural roads in the wee small hours and have a lot of fun. Different story in the middle of the day when the tourists are out and about, even the locals slow down then. It's one of the few areas where you will see chevron signs on corners you could easily navigate at 100mph plus, that should give you an idea of how many of the locals drive.