Black Box - Insurance Cancelled
Discussion
Lo-Fi said:
Twig is an insurance co groupie. They can do no wrong in his eyes. Customers are mean people striving to steal from the innocent profits of the lovely companies.
He has a lot of experience in insurance as I understand it, but describing him as a groupie is childish and inaccurate. He's helpfully offering some views from the other side of the fence as it were. Reference comparison to the costs in other countries, and whilst noting that comparisons across different countries are inevitably flawed, I would observe that my own experience of insuring cars in Europe for around 20 years of my motoring life is that costs on the continent are significantly higher than UK. My premiums average out to be three times what I paid in UK. Anecdotal of course, but this notion that you're being ripped off by insurers isn't true in my case.
Sheepshanks said:
I suspect that the industry has taken note of Twig saying for years that we pay far too little for our car insurance, and has decided that recent alleged surges in costs, plus the FCA cracking down on their price walking rules, have created an ideal opportunity to whack prices up.
In our household, the premium on wife's Karoq going up 68% is just insane - yet checking around only the companies you've never heard of were cheaper. Did they really have her premium so wrong before?
Can only speak from personal insurance but their appears to be a woeful lack of efficiency and common sense from insurers that could well be costing them millions - rather than address these inefficiencies / stupidity its simply far easier to make the customer pay.In our household, the premium on wife's Karoq going up 68% is just insane - yet checking around only the companies you've never heard of were cheaper. Did they really have her premium so wrong before?
Edited by Sheepshanks on Sunday 30th June 15:55
Dingu said:
With respect you are talking from a position of ignorance, and it shows.
No, I just know from experience when too many snouts are in the trough it's all too easy to pass the costs on to the customer. Energy has been another one. However as its a legal requirement to have insurance there are less options for the consumer.Having insured cars in Europe and the UK recently I'm also not sure it's true the UK is cheaper, certainly isn't for me. What I have noticed is how many additional services are added here that are not present in Europe.
Edited by CLK-GTR on Sunday 30th June 16:59
Andy665 said:
...their appears to be a woeful lack of efficiency and common sense from insurers that could well be costing them millions - rather than address these inefficiencies / stupidity its simply far easier to make the customer pay.
Car insurance is not like building nuclear power plants or airliners. The barriers to entry are not that high, as evidenced by the number of participants in the market. So if the market is so inefficient and are profiteering then it's easy enough for a new entrant to undercut them.DP14 said:
Car insurance is not like building nuclear power plants or airliners. The barriers to entry are not that high, as evidenced by the number of participants in the market. So if the market is so inefficient and are profiteering then it's easy enough for a new entrant to undercut them.
Indeed. If it's so inefficient, and profits are so high, it's amazing no one has entered the market to make it more efficient, reduce premiums, and still make huge profits. TwigtheWonderkid said:
DP14 said:
Car insurance is not like building nuclear power plants or airliners. The barriers to entry are not that high, as evidenced by the number of participants in the market. So if the market is so inefficient and are profiteering then it's easy enough for a new entrant to undercut them.
Indeed. If it's so inefficient, and profits are so high, it's amazing no one has entered the market to make it more efficient, reduce premiums, and still make huge profits. CharlesdeGaulle said:
My premiums average out to be three times what I paid in UK. Anecdotal of course, but this notion that you're being ripped off by insurers isn't true in my case.
That's about right for most drivers aged 35+. You only have to read the "has your insurance gone up" thread to see people moaning that their BMW M3 has gone up from £200 to £250, to see that insurance in the UK has been so cheap for so long, people have lost all sense of perspective. Most people don't pay that much for insurance. Some people pay fortunes, because statistically, they deserve to pay fortunes.
My wife’s policy this year is a BB policy with Hastings Direct. It was £500 cheaper than the next best. It’s high mainly because our youngest is insured on it as a named driver.
Tbh it doesn’t seem onerous at all. She gets reports/scores every day on the App, she’s averaging 98 so it’s not exactly requiring high standards.
Tbh it doesn’t seem onerous at all. She gets reports/scores every day on the App, she’s averaging 98 so it’s not exactly requiring high standards.
Bonefish Blues said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
DP14 said:
Car insurance is not like building nuclear power plants or airliners. The barriers to entry are not that high, as evidenced by the number of participants in the market. So if the market is so inefficient and are profiteering then it's easy enough for a new entrant to undercut them.
Indeed. If it's so inefficient, and profits are so high, it's amazing no one has entered the market to make it more efficient, reduce premiums, and still make huge profits. 
lancslad58 said:
Might be worth reading this
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
See posts from MKnight702 and BunkMoreland
There's 88 pages. How about quoting the posts you're highlighting?https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
See posts from MKnight702 and BunkMoreland
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Bonefish Blues said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
DP14 said:
Car insurance is not like building nuclear power plants or airliners. The barriers to entry are not that high, as evidenced by the number of participants in the market. So if the market is so inefficient and are profiteering then it's easy enough for a new entrant to undercut them.
Indeed. If it's so inefficient, and profits are so high, it's amazing no one has entered the market to make it more efficient, reduce premiums, and still make huge profits. 
If anyone is suggesting the insurance market is a utopian model which places customers at the heart of everything they do then they may want to give their head a wobble.
The insurers are here to make money and have plenty of dodgy practices, some of which regulation has subsequently put in place to try to reduce - for example, try price walking, undervaluing motor claims, poor service etc. Complaints against insurers hitting all time highs.
The insurers are here to make money and have plenty of dodgy practices, some of which regulation has subsequently put in place to try to reduce - for example, try price walking, undervaluing motor claims, poor service etc. Complaints against insurers hitting all time highs.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
DP14 said:
Car insurance is not like building nuclear power plants or airliners. The barriers to entry are not that high, as evidenced by the number of participants in the market. So if the market is so inefficient and are profiteering then it's easy enough for a new entrant to undercut them.
Indeed. If it's so inefficient, and profits are so high, it's amazing no one has entered the market to make it more efficient, reduce premiums, and still make huge profits. CoolHands said:
If you have to fit a black box surely you just fit it to your mother’s car? 
Even if you have no moral scruples about committing insurance fraud, this would be moronic. What happens when you have a bump and they can easily prove that the telematics device wasn’t at the scene of the accident?
Super Sonic said:
lancslad58 said:
Might be worth reading this
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
See posts from MKnight702 and BunkMoreland
There's 88 pages. How about quoting the posts you're highlighting?https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
See posts from MKnight702 and BunkMoreland
MKnight702 said:
Yep, black boxes are an absolute curse. They only have simple accelerometers and simple GPS to log speed, so all they measure is how fast you accelerate, how hard you corner and how hard you brake (oh and speed of course). Do any of these too much or too sharply and its a black mark on your copybook. No context at all. Brake hard to avoid a child running into the road, black mark. Swerve to avoid an idiot pulling out without looking, black mark. Accelerate away from the lights, black mark. As for speed, exceed the limit by a small margin too many times and bang, insurance cancelled. Oh, and misreporting is also a problem. Go over a speedbump and it can trigger as acceleration or braking (good job that speedbumps are few and far between eh).
My daughter had a black box once (never again) and reading the reviews, unfortunately after the fact, reported many issues for drivers. One chap had an issue with the glue holding the black box in place failing and the box falling off, this got reported by the system as a crash. The glue turned out to be a faulty batch but still the insurance company decided that it was the responsibility of the driver to pay for a replacement black box or face having the insurance cancelled.
My daughter had a black box once (never again) and reading the reviews, unfortunately after the fact, reported many issues for drivers. One chap had an issue with the glue holding the black box in place failing and the box falling off, this got reported by the system as a crash. The glue turned out to be a faulty batch but still the insurance company decided that it was the responsibility of the driver to pay for a replacement black box or face having the insurance cancelled.
BunkMoreland said:
Reminds me of a young lad that used to work with me. His black box showed him driving at 35moh through a river (which is about 20ft deep) doing a 180 turn, then driving back through the same river. HE showed me the GPS trace
His insurance company would simply NOT have it that he hadn't driven that route! They were fking disgusting! And I have a degree of sympathy for the kids forced to use them just to get insurance at all!
His insurance company would simply NOT have it that he hadn't driven that route! They were fking disgusting! And I have a degree of sympathy for the kids forced to use them just to get insurance at all!
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