RE: 2024 Lotus Emeya | PH Review

[Sean 2000]

The Lotus we all knew and loved is gone I'm afraid. sad but true!

[cidered77]

FA57REN said:

BigChiefmuffinAgain said:

Feel a lot of the "hate" here is from people who just wanted Lotus to carry on making a few lightweight Elise and Eviras. Financially, that was never going to be a viable option.

Lotus were profitable from 2016 with the Elise and Evora. The question wasn't about surviving, but whether they would continue as a boutique manufacturer of 2,000 cars per year or to try to pivot into the mainstream with volume.

wasn't like, the *only* profit made in 40 odd years? And based on cars even then approaching their sell by date?

I don't much care for these enormous and reportedly rather inefficient EVs far too large for our roads - but, if it works for them, good luck! As pretty much *nothing* that business has done beforehand beyond it seems a couple of years last decade has seen it actually return anything for its owners!

if these big Chinese beasts mean they kick on from Emira, which wasn't half bad, then fair enough.

[murphyaj]

SDK said:

murphyaj said:

Which is why it is weird that in a report about a car like this they don't mention miles per kWh anywhere.

As you likely know - efficiency depends on many things, and it’’s likely a press car will be the lower side due to it be driven flat out everywhere.
I imagine the miles per kWh of this will be between 1.8 and 2.8.

But not even an estimated efficiency from Lotus? Between 1.8 and 2.8 is a pretty massive margin, it's the difference between pretty bad and utterly terrible.
I am quite capable of making some kind of educated guess, but my point is that it is an important enough number that i'd expect an in-depth review of the car to provide one so that I don't have to.

[Sean 2000]

The Lotus we all knew and loved is gone I'm afraid. sad but true!

[RacerMike]

BigChiefmuffinAgain said:

Feel a lot of the "hate" here is from people who just wanted Lotus to carry on making a few lightweight Elise and Eviras. Financially, that was never going to be a viable option. They needed more volumes to survive and the only way they were going to achieve this was with an SUV and given the way things are going, it would only make sense to do one as an EV. Once they were doing that, it wasn't a huge step to do a saloon as well.

Can't really see they had any other choice. Given where they came from, I would say they are not a bad first effort. Suspect the Gen 2 models will be a lot better.

The issue is a little more granular than that really. I think there are, for sure, some people that are going to 'hate' it whatever, but I think there are a reasonable number who also realise the background to the new EV Lotus' and the lack of involvement from the Lotus engineers on them. I know that many believe that 'all EVs are the same', but actually they're not and I feel like arguably this is where Geely have failed a little. There's still 90% of the rest of the car that very much isn't 'just another EV' and it's exactly why a Taycan feels like a Porsche still.

I'm not saying that the Geely approach here is wrong 'per say' as there's so few people left at Lotus that would have been around to define the attributes the car would have that it's arguable whether Lotus really exists in its original form anyway, however I guess the hot/cold reception we're seeing is the result of something that is so broadly a badge engineering exercise now and it's hard to relate the DNA of an Elise, Evora or even Emira to a big 2.5Tonne SUV.

Perhaps the problem lies more in the choice in product than the actual product or approach to developing it. Consumers might have understood things if Lotus had maybe done a compact sporty saloon/mini SUV where the focus had been on being lighter? Ultimately it's all just marketing, but the walk to their current products means consumers (and likely the engineers) find it hard to really know what a Lotus is anymore. How would any of us, for instance, imagine a 2.5 Tonne Lotus SUV should be? How could we walk the expectations of an Elise or Evora (likely the experience of a Lotus most of us have had would have as reference) into that format? The reason it works with Porsche is because we've already had years of the Cayenne, Panamera and Macan, and arguably their big departure move (the Cayenne) was a white space vehicle at the time. This Emeya enters into an already over populated large EV Sports Saloon market filled with generic vehicles from Chinese/European/American brands with well established market positions. It's a tough sell with very little substance behind it.

[DMC2]

You lost me at EV

[chirurgus]

Is this the Lotus E-moji?

[pycraft]

murphyaj said:

jenkosrugby said:

I think it looks utterly fantastic............I just don't get all the kia comments....On what planet does this look like a kia?.

I am 100% deadly serious, If I had never seen an Emeya before and somebody presented me with this exact image and said it was a 2nd gen Stinger I would absolutely believe them.

I'm not saying it looks like a stinger but it does look like something modern Kia could produce. Kia are actually very good at making large cars that wear their size well. Here is an image of an EV6 which has been shrunk vertically by 15%. To my eyes it's no worse than the lotus.

Edited by murphyaj on Tuesday 2nd July 13:24

The Kia certainly follows Lotus design language from the 70s...

[DonkeyApple]

murphyaj said:

DonkeyApple said:

jrad said:

why do none of the reports about this car so far talk about efficiency?

Because it's not a Honda Jazz aimed at Mrs Miggins and her pressed budget.

Efficiency in an electric GT car isn't about budget it's about range. In an inefficient car you might need to spend 20 minutes at the fast charger every 200 miles, but in a more efficient one you might need to spend 12 minutes at the fast charger every 200 miles, and that's better.

Adding range by simply adding more battery capacity is a compromise. If you plug your Eletre into your typical home charger after 12 hours you'll still only have added 72% of charge because the battery is simply vast. A more efficient car with a smaller battery and the same range is much easier to live with. Which is why it is weird that in a report about a car like this they don't mention miles per kWh anywhere.

It really doesn't matter if the price is right. This car will probably do a couple of hundred miles plodding along the motorway hopping from chargers to chargers or moving around town well within range of the chargers against the wall at home.

The only particular issue with this car is that it appears to be enormously over priced for what it actually is which is a generic Chinese EV that's normally banged out for potentially a third of what's being asked for here. The badge is being asked to do a lot of heavy lifting.

What Geely like ok to have done is added a bigger motor to get headline grabbing performance out of a very generic and simple build to help justify what looks to be an absolutely enormous markup and that big motor is just a perpetual drain on efficiency.

Personally, I think they may have done better to fit smaller motors, have adequate performance and just cleaned up by offering it at a sensible price. The byproduct of which would have been a lot more range. But they have all the market research and data so clearly see that 2 second 0-60 times and big price tag are where they'll find the most buyers?

[BigChiefmuffinAgain]

RacerMike said:

BigChiefmuffinAgain said:

Feel a lot of the "hate" here is from people who just wanted Lotus to carry on making a few lightweight Elise and Eviras. Financially, that was never going to be a viable option. They needed more volumes to survive and the only way they were going to achieve this was with an SUV and given the way things are going, it would only make sense to do one as an EV. Once they were doing that, it wasn't a huge step to do a saloon as well.

Can't really see they had any other choice. Given where they came from, I would say they are not a bad first effort. Suspect the Gen 2 models will be a lot better.

The issue is a little more granular than that really. I think there are, for sure, some people that are going to 'hate' it whatever, but I think there are a reasonable number who also realise the background to the new EV Lotus' and the lack of involvement from the Lotus engineers on them. I know that many believe that 'all EVs are the same', but actually they're not and I feel like arguably this is where Geely have failed a little. There's still 90% of the rest of the car that very much isn't 'just another EV' and it's exactly why a Taycan feels like a Porsche still.

I'm not saying that the Geely approach here is wrong 'per say' as there's so few people left at Lotus that would have been around to define the attributes the car would have that it's arguable whether Lotus really exists in its original form anyway, however I guess the hot/cold reception we're seeing is the result of something that is so broadly a badge engineering exercise now and it's hard to relate the DNA of an Elise, Evora or even Emira to a big 2.5Tonne SUV.

Perhaps the problem lies more in the choice in product than the actual product or approach to developing it. Consumers might have understood things if Lotus had maybe done a compact sporty saloon/mini SUV where the focus had been on being lighter? Ultimately it's all just marketing, but the walk to their current products means consumers (and likely the engineers) find it hard to really know what a Lotus is anymore. How would any of us, for instance, imagine a 2.5 Tonne Lotus SUV should be? How could we walk the expectations of an Elise or Evora (likely the experience of a Lotus most of us have had would have as reference) into that format? The reason it works with Porsche is because we've already had years of the Cayenne, Panamera and Macan, and arguably their big departure move (the Cayenne) was a white space vehicle at the time. This Emeya enters into an already over populated large EV Sports Saloon market filled with generic vehicles from Chinese/European/American brands with well established market positions. It's a tough sell with very little substance behind it.

I suspect the Lotus engineering team by the time they were thinking about this car was really quite small and had no experience here. Lotus had not launched a new car since the Evora in 2009 - everything since then had been updates. The "Lotus" guys ( I assume ) would have had their hands full enough trying to get the Emira to market and clearly even here they struggled. There are a lot of skills involved in building up production volumes and this is not something they had ever done before. There would have been few around who had even experienced the development and launch of the Evora. There was no way they could have contributed significantly to the development and launch of the electric cars - was not even an area they had any experience in....

[DonkeyApple]

Sean 2000 said:

The Lotus we all knew and loved is gone I'm afraid. sad but true!

Yup. 25 years of being a car company that doesn't sell cars and then out of the blue randomly chucking all that hard earned heritage in the bin by switching to be a car company that sells cars is a pretty bitter pill to come to terms with.

[Nomme de Plum]

Sean 2000 said:

The Lotus we all knew and loved is gone I'm afraid. sad but true!

What Lotus was that then?

I owned an S1 Elan in the 70s and a S1 Exige in the 2000s. Both sold in small numbers due to their relatively narrow appeal. and Lotus has been broke a number of times following their philosophy.

[ChocolateFrog]

911Spanker said:

May as well get a BYD or MG as this doesn't seem to be much different.

Seems like Lotus haven't managed to beat a Taycan which is now a pretty old design. No excuse really.

Would likely be cheaper and more reliable.

You'd have to be brave IMO. These cars are designed to be used every day not just the occasional sunny Sunday.

I don't have enough faith in Lotus that can pull it off.

Wonder if the production line looks like the one Harry showed us of the Emira.

[RacerMike]

BigChiefmuffinAgain said:

RacerMike said:

BigChiefmuffinAgain said:

Feel a lot of the "hate" here is from people who just wanted Lotus to carry on making a few lightweight Elise and Eviras. Financially, that was never going to be a viable option. They needed more volumes to survive and the only way they were going to achieve this was with an SUV and given the way things are going, it would only make sense to do one as an EV. Once they were doing that, it wasn't a huge step to do a saloon as well.

Can't really see they had any other choice. Given where they came from, I would say they are not a bad first effort. Suspect the Gen 2 models will be a lot better.

The issue is a little more granular than that really. I think there are, for sure, some people that are going to 'hate' it whatever, but I think there are a reasonable number who also realise the background to the new EV Lotus' and the lack of involvement from the Lotus engineers on them. I know that many believe that 'all EVs are the same', but actually they're not and I feel like arguably this is where Geely have failed a little. There's still 90% of the rest of the car that very much isn't 'just another EV' and it's exactly why a Taycan feels like a Porsche still.

I'm not saying that the Geely approach here is wrong 'per say' as there's so few people left at Lotus that would have been around to define the attributes the car would have that it's arguable whether Lotus really exists in its original form anyway, however I guess the hot/cold reception we're seeing is the result of something that is so broadly a badge engineering exercise now and it's hard to relate the DNA of an Elise, Evora or even Emira to a big 2.5Tonne SUV.

Perhaps the problem lies more in the choice in product than the actual product or approach to developing it. Consumers might have understood things if Lotus had maybe done a compact sporty saloon/mini SUV where the focus had been on being lighter? Ultimately it's all just marketing, but the walk to their current products means consumers (and likely the engineers) find it hard to really know what a Lotus is anymore. How would any of us, for instance, imagine a 2.5 Tonne Lotus SUV should be? How could we walk the expectations of an Elise or Evora (likely the experience of a Lotus most of us have had would have as reference) into that format? The reason it works with Porsche is because we've already had years of the Cayenne, Panamera and Macan, and arguably their big departure move (the Cayenne) was a white space vehicle at the time. This Emeya enters into an already over populated large EV Sports Saloon market filled with generic vehicles from Chinese/European/American brands with well established market positions. It's a tough sell with very little substance behind it.

I suspect the Lotus engineering team by the time they were thinking about this car was really quite small and had no experience here. Lotus had not launched a new car since the Evora in 2009 - everything since then had been updates. The "Lotus" guys ( I assume ) would have had their hands full enough trying to get the Emira to market and clearly even here they struggled. There are a lot of skills involved in building up production volumes and this is not something they had ever done before. There would have been few around who had even experienced the development and launch of the Evora. There was no way they could have contributed significantly to the development and launch of the electric cars - was not even an area they had any experience in....

Yeah I agree. Hence I wonder if the model choice was the right one. The mid sized EV SUV and Saloon spaces are super crowded with other products. I feel it's perhaps why companies like Lucid and Fisker have struggled whereas Rivian have struggled less (hesitant to say successful) as they entered market where there were no EV pickups (at the time). People brought an R1T because they liked the idea of an EV truck and not because they liked the idea of a Rivian or had any idea of what a Rivian should be.

[J4CKO]

murphyaj said:

jenkosrugby said:

I think it looks utterly fantastic............I just don't get all the kia comments....On what planet does this look like a kia?.

I am 100% deadly serious, If I had never seen an Emeya before and somebody presented me with this exact image and said it was a 2nd gen Stinger I would absolutely believe them.

I'm not saying it looks like a stinger but it does look like something modern Kia could produce. Kia are actually very good at making large cars that wear their size well. Here is an image of an EV6 which has been shrunk vertically by 15%. To my eyes it's no worse than the lotus.

Edited by murphyaj on Tuesday 2nd July 13:24

I dont get the derision for Kia, the Stinger is a looker and as a brand they have come on leaps and bounds, same with Hyundai, in some cases, maybe not the Ioniq 6.

Think this looks alright, side like the sides in particular.

[Frogmella]

I'm not obsessed with 'a Lotus must weigh under 1000kg and be a sports car'. Porsche did quite ok diversifying the product range with Cayenne and Boxster but wow, this is truly generic and actually quite poor

It appears like a cookie cutter, Far East EV. Given Porsche struggle to sell Taycan at this price point, Lotus are truly

Park that next to a BYD and I wouldn't know the difference.

[nismo48]

jenkosrugby said:

I think it looks utterly fantastic............I just don't get all the kia comments....On what planet does this look like a kia?.

I'm with you on that

[Frogmella]

RacerMike said:

Yeah I agree. Hence I wonder if the model choice was the right one. The mid sized EV SUV and Saloon spaces are super crowded with other products. I feel it's perhaps why companies like Lucid and Fisker have struggled whereas Rivian have struggled less (hesitant to say successful) as they entered market where there were no EV pickups (at the time). People brought an R1T because they liked the idea of an EV truck and not because they liked the idea of a Rivian or had any idea of what a Rivian should be.

Lucid Air is an intriguing and very good car to be honest. It feels fresh, new and special in many ways. We're still not seeing many on the roads over here in the US, despite some incredible lease deals. I think a Lucid made its way to the UK to be reverse engineered *cough*. Fisker was always going to be doomed from what I understand with regards their re-appearance into the market.


Rivians are here and there. I hope they manage to stick around. The smaller model that just came out looks a bit st, a bit like a Nissan Cube (not sure if you have them in the UK). I just checked their website and they have 4 models of this weird new model that look exactly the same. The pickup is great though and comes in some lovely colors.

[Mackofthejungle]

It just looks awful. It looks like a 40 grand MG or KIA. Nobody wants this surely..

And the interior is so unappealing. It's like no human was involved in the design. Is it a tax dodge or something?

[big_rob_sydney]

That is the worst looking Lotus I have ever seen. How on earth did this make it past the review stage?