Black Box - Insurance Cancelled

[Alex_225]

Rough101 said:

I suspect they think you haven’t been using it

I wondered this too. Only 24 miles in however many months you had the policy, perhaps they think you've unplugged the box and carried on driving.

Considering their app hasn't given you any indication and as a user of their product, is the only way to ensure you're compliant with their policy.

Definitely follow up with a complain and ombudsman after if they do not come to a satisfactory conclusion.

[Killboy]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

A challenge for you. Can you dig out your current car insurance policy, photocopy and paste up on here a single line in your policy that's in small print.

Because I don't think there's any small print in UK insurance policies. Just normal sized print that people can't be arsed to read, and then bleat about small print when their laziness comes back to bite them.

Besides for knowing exactly what he means, I'll take that challenge.

Main policy section




And get down to the T&Cs


Exporting the policy doc to google sheets - it has the font size as 10 for the main policy items, and the T&Cs as 8.

Are the any other valuable contributions you would like to make to this thread?

[CLK-GTR]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

And yet our insurance is still cheaper than insurance in France.

Can you show where young driver convictions for no insurance have tripled. You may well be right, but I haven't heard or read anything about this.

I see somebody else has already provided a link.

It doesn't matter if France has cheaper insurance or not. Sensibly presuming margins were fairly equivalent in both markets before, why has the UK increased by so much? France is not the outlier either. Italy had a 6% increase.

Something is going wrong and it's creating a big problem in a whole load of uninsured drivers.

[CoolHands]

Rough101 said:

My daughter had a black box from Bell, plugged into the fag lighter and velcroed to the floor.

If you think about it, it would be best to position the box on the roll centre of the car, to minimise cornering and fore / aft motion in acceleration and braking. If you have it off centre etc as I guess many people do, you will be reporting back ‘worse’ data.

[Road2Ruin]

Rough101 said:

My daughter had a black box from Bell, plugged into the fag lighter and velcroed to the floor.

After 3 months they said the driving was fine and we could return it.

She wasn’t doing a lot of miles, but worked evenings so was a bit worried about late driving demerits, but it was OK in the end.

I suspect they think you haven’t been using it

I would go with this too. My daughter also had one from Bell and worked fine, returned after 3 months.
Did you genuinely do only 24 miles? Only you will know. If not, you probably have broken their rules.

[VSKeith]

Killboy said:

Main policy section




And get down to the T&Cs


Exporting the policy doc to google sheets - it has the font size as 10 for the main policy items, and the T&Cs as 8.

We really are getting into the finer points of the debate here

[98elise]

CLK-GTR said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

And yet our insurance is still cheaper than insurance in France.

Can you show where young driver convictions for no insurance have tripled. You may well be right, but I haven't heard or read anything about this.

I see somebody else has already provided a link.

It doesn't matter if France has cheaper insurance or not. Sensibly presuming margins were fairly equivalent in both markets before, why has the UK increased by so much? France is not the outlier either. Italy had a 6% increase.

Something is going wrong and it's creating a big problem in a whole load of uninsured drivers.

Repair costs up 31% from £4.7bn in 2022 to £6.1bn in 2023.
Theft claims up 23% from £543m in 2022 to £669m 2023.
Car replacement costs up 35% from £444m in 2022 to £597m in 2023.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-...

Comparing with France is pointless. Prices here are driven by what's happening in the UK, not France.

[CLK-GTR]

98elise said:

Repair costs up 31% from £4.7bn in 2022 to £6.1bn in 2023.
Theft claims up 23% from £543m in 2022 to £669m 2023.
Car replacement costs up 35% from £444m in 2022 to £597m in 2023.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-...

Comparing with France is pointless. Prices here are driven by what's happening in the UK, not France.

The cars, the parts and the labour are not magically more expensive here than in Europe. Yet still, even with those cost increases it does not add up to the average premium increase. Somewhere along the chain somebody is taking the ****. That much should be clear, and as its a legal requirement to have insurance then it does indeed need intervention.

[NRG1976]

My son insurer threatened to cancel his BB policy (app based) as he hasn’t driven the car for a month or two. He was at Uni so obviously had his phone with him and apparently despite the car being driven regularly by my daughter, his phone had to be in the car for it to register as him driving.

He phoned the insurer to explain and they gave him 4 weeks to drive the car more than 100 miles. He was in the midst of doing exams so didn’t have time to spare. So one weekend I just drove down to his Uni and did a shopping trip. Clocked up 130 miles. Hypothetically all I needed was his phone in the car so as not to disrupt his studying, but of course that would be fraudulent and I would never do such a thing…

[FMOB]

NRG1976 said:

My son insurer threatened to cancel his BB policy (app based) as he hasn’t driven the car for a month or two. He was at Uni so obviously had his phone with him and apparently despite the car being driven regularly by my daughter, his phone had to be in the car for it to register as him driving.

He phoned the insurer to explain and they gave him 4 weeks to drive the car more than 100 miles. He was in the midst of doing exams so didn’t have time to spare. So one weekend I just drove down to his Uni and did a shopping trip. Clocked up 130 miles. Hypothetically all I needed was his phone in the car so as not to disrupt his studying, but of course that would be fraudulent and I would never do such a thing…

Wow, an insurer demanding the car is driven and by right person, you just can't make this stuff up. Insurers are obviously not capable of interpreting the data they receive from vehicles with black boxes correctly, good thing they aren't responsible for prosecuting innocent policyholders.

Post Office Horizon anyone?

[Killboy]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

And yet our insurance is still cheaper than insurance in France.

Also, looking into this I'm not sure its true anymore. After our 34% average increase compared too their 2%, we look a lot more expensive now.

[FMOB]

NRG1976 said:

My son insurer threatened to cancel his BB policy (app based) as he hasn’t driven the car for a month or two. He was at Uni so obviously had his phone with him and apparently despite the car being driven regularly by my daughter, his phone had to be in the car for it to register as him driving.

He phoned the insurer to explain and they gave him 4 weeks to drive the car more than 100 miles. He was in the midst of doing exams so didn’t have time to spare. So one weekend I just drove down to his Uni and did a shopping trip. Clocked up 130 miles. Hypothetically all I needed was his phone in the car so as not to disrupt his studying, but of course that would be fraudulent and I would never do such a thing…

Wow, an insurer demanding the car is driven and by right person, you just can't make this stuff up. Insurers are obviously not capable of interpreting the data they receive from vehicles with black boxes correctly, good thing they aren't responsible for prosecuting innocent policyholders.

Post Office Horizon anyone?

[alscar]

CLK-GTR said:

The cars, the parts and the labour are not magically more expensive here than in Europe. Yet still, even with those cost increases it does not add up to the average premium increase. Somewhere along the chain somebody is taking the ****. That much should be clear, and as its a legal requirement to have insurance then it does indeed need intervention.

What are Motor Insurers nett loss ratios in Europe and how do they compare with the UK’s ?
Irrespective , comparing different Countries average Insurance premiums and hence average increases is totally pointless.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Killboy said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

A challenge for you. Can you dig out your current car insurance policy, photocopy and paste up on here a single line in your policy that's in small print.

Because I don't think there's any small print in UK insurance policies. Just normal sized print that people can't be arsed to read, and then bleat about small print when their laziness comes back to bite them.

Besides for knowing exactly what he means, I'll take that challenge.

Main policy section




And get down to the T&Cs


Exporting the policy doc to google sheets - it has the font size as 10 for the main policy items, and the T&Cs as 8.

Are the any other valuable contributions you would like to make to this thread?

That smaller print relates to who regulates your policy. Are there sections in small print telling you that you aren't covered for certain stuff. Because if so, that contravines ABI guidelines.

[Killboy]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

That smaller print relates to who regulates your policy. Are there sections in small print telling you that you aren't covered for certain stuff. Because if so, that contravines ABI guidelines.

Pretty much the entire document after the welcome and schedule is that font.

Added proof:


There is a list of exclusions in the normal sized font relating specifically to for hire use, delivery, track and trial racing, etc. But you asked for a single line and I've given it to you.

Edited by Killboy on Sunday 30th June 15:20

[Sheepshanks]

Killboy said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

And yet our insurance is still cheaper than insurance in France.

Also, looking into this I'm not sure its true anymore. After our 34% average increase compared too their 2%, we look a lot more expensive now.

I suspect that the industry has taken note of Twig saying for years that we pay far too little for our car insurance, and has decided that recent alleged surges in costs, plus the FCA cracking down on their price walking rules, have created an ideal opportunity to whack prices up.

In our household, the premium on wife's Karoq going up 68% is just insane - yet checking around only the companies you've never heard of were cheaper. Did they really have her premium so wrong before?

Edited by Sheepshanks on Sunday 30th June 15:55

[CLK-GTR]

alscar said:

What are Motor Insurers nett loss ratios in Europe and how do they compare with the UK’s ?
Irrespective , comparing different Countries average Insurance premiums and hence average increases is totally pointless.

The proof is in the financial results, I only looked at Aviva and Direct Line but both happily reported increased margins and reduced claims ratios on personal and motor insurance in 2023.

[Dingu]

CLK-GTR said:

The cars, the parts and the labour are not magically more expensive here than in Europe. Yet still, even with those cost increases it does not add up to the average premium increase. Somewhere along the chain somebody is taking the ****. That much should be clear, and as its a legal requirement to have insurance then it does indeed need intervention.

With respect you are talking from a position of ignorance, and it shows.

[Dingu]

CLK-GTR said:

The proof is in the financial results, I only looked at Aviva and Direct Line but both happily reported increased margins and reduced claims ratios on personal and motor insurance in 2023.

Direct Line reported a loss, sounds super positive.

You need to get in the real world a little.

A margin of c.5% is by no means unreasonable, I doubt your industry is making less. There are also many many different providers, if Aviva thought they could make money by dropping 10% off the premium, guess what? They would do. More regulation will increase costs, it always does. Then you’ll be whinging about that too.

You appear to have no concept of how a market works and are totally blinkered by your own lack of knowledge and preconceptions.

[alscar]

CLK-GTR said:

alscar said:

What are Motor Insurers nett loss ratios in Europe and how do they compare with the UK’s ?
Irrespective , comparing different Countries average Insurance premiums and hence average increases is totally pointless.

The proof is in the financial results, I only looked at Aviva and Direct Line but both happily reported increased margins and reduced claims ratios on personal and motor insurance in 2023.

Indeed but what are Aviva and DL’s comparative loss ratios in Europe ?
That is the only comparison you can make but it would still be pointless as regards to the price of UK insurance.
I’m not surprised that 2023 is showing a better result than perhaps the previous few years given that’s when the premiums / rates started to increase here.
I’ve said it before but UK motor insurers rarely make more than a few points of profit in years where they are able to even make a profit.
Specialists and niche players are sometimes able to outperform this.