RE: Suzuki calls time on Swift Sport, Jimny and more
Discussion
Laup99 said:
Sold our mk2 swift sport this year for new MX5.
N/A for and N/A.... not sure we will have that choice kn 4 years time.
Ref the Swift Sport...... one of the best cars I have ever owned. 8 years, no issues and super fun at sensible speeds.
Great brand Suzuki..... very underatted
Great minds, eh? We had a mk2 Swift Sport and ND2 MX5 as our two cars for a time. The Mazda was sold due to the birth of my daughter, but we still have the Swift and as it has been mechanically impeccable, I intend to keep it for a while yet. Might even treat it to a wheel refurb and bonnet respray to get it looking its best again.N/A for and N/A.... not sure we will have that choice kn 4 years time.
Ref the Swift Sport...... one of the best cars I have ever owned. 8 years, no issues and super fun at sensible speeds.
Great brand Suzuki..... very underatted
The Swift Sport doesn't have a lot of grunt but the way it suddenly lifts its skirts and gets a move on at 4000rpm is always a pleasure.
Clivey said:
malaccamax said:
Suzuki could have carried on selling both the Jimny and Swift Sport if they'd paid closer attention to the European emissions regulations.
The fact they didn't, or didn't choose to react to them, shows that this region is just an afterthought to them globally. Jimny never had a decent lower emissions engine, not even a mild hybrid! Insane given that it's a desirable product that could have easily absorbed the price of it.
They've lagged on EVs, meaning they've nothing to offset their supermini sales. Now MG (which has played it right) is going to eat their lunch with the MG3 Hybrid and other models. Suzuki meanwhile just plods along, giving us a very similar Swift but without the Sport.
A potentially interesting company hamstrung by terrible leadership, seemingly. Either that or one that doesn't care much about the world beyond its massive Indian market.
I get the impression that for a lot of car makers, European legislation has become too extreme and it's becoming more trouble than it's worth to sell cars here. If things continue on their current course, most European manufacturers stand to be wiped-out by cheaply-made Chinese EVs.The fact they didn't, or didn't choose to react to them, shows that this region is just an afterthought to them globally. Jimny never had a decent lower emissions engine, not even a mild hybrid! Insane given that it's a desirable product that could have easily absorbed the price of it.
They've lagged on EVs, meaning they've nothing to offset their supermini sales. Now MG (which has played it right) is going to eat their lunch with the MG3 Hybrid and other models. Suzuki meanwhile just plods along, giving us a very similar Swift but without the Sport.
A potentially interesting company hamstrung by terrible leadership, seemingly. Either that or one that doesn't care much about the world beyond its massive Indian market.
What a shame, though I suspect, sadly inevitable.
I convinced my aged mother that the best car to replace her knackered and very rusty old StreetKa was an automatic Ignis and despite having the auto box, I have to say, it is brilliant wee thing. She loves it.
The Jimny is a bit agricultural for a daily driver, but still, a fantastic little thing.
Here's hoping that whatever EV replaces tem will still have the same ethos and fun about them. I worry that the weight of a battery power pack that isn't laughable will wreck the sweet dynamics.
I convinced my aged mother that the best car to replace her knackered and very rusty old StreetKa was an automatic Ignis and despite having the auto box, I have to say, it is brilliant wee thing. She loves it.
The Jimny is a bit agricultural for a daily driver, but still, a fantastic little thing.
Here's hoping that whatever EV replaces tem will still have the same ethos and fun about them. I worry that the weight of a battery power pack that isn't laughable will wreck the sweet dynamics.
malaccamax said:
That makes no sense. If the Chinese can do it so can anyone. There's no secret sauce here. Just sensible industrial policy and hard work. If Suzuki thinks its all too hard then goodbye. Stellantis is coming out with decent cheap small EVs. Others will too. The direction of travel has been in place for years. The aim is to reduce CO2 (a good aim)
The "secret sauce" is massively reduced production costs (essentially slave labour) and questionable quality. The Chinese are knocking-out cheap rubbish at a worrying pace and are dumping it in Western markets in an attempt to put their competitors out of business (this is not new and it's not just happening in the car market). When emissions guff and inflation has added an extra third to the price of many Western cars, you'll see get budget-conscious buyers abandoning the likes of Ford and Vauxhall and being suckered in by BYD and Ming Garages instead. If you've any experience of Chinese QC and "engineering" practices behind the thin veneer of massive touchscreens, you'll know why this is a bad thing.Clivey said:
malaccamax said:
That makes no sense. If the Chinese can do it so can anyone. There's no secret sauce here. Just sensible industrial policy and hard work. If Suzuki thinks its all too hard then goodbye. Stellantis is coming out with decent cheap small EVs. Others will too. The direction of travel has been in place for years. The aim is to reduce CO2 (a good aim)
The "secret sauce" is massively reduced production costs (essentially slave labour) and questionable quality. The Chinese are knocking-out cheap rubbish at a worrying pace and are dumping it in Western markets in an attempt to put their competitors out of business (this is not new and it's not just happening in the car market). When emissions guff and inflation has added an extra third to the price of many Western cars, you'll see get budget-conscious buyers abandoning the likes of Ford and Vauxhall and being suckered in by BYD and Ming Garages instead. If you've any experience of Chinese QC and "engineering" practices behind the thin veneer of massive touchscreens, you'll know why this is a bad thing.malaccamax said:
Clivey said:
malaccamax said:
That makes no sense. If the Chinese can do it so can anyone. There's no secret sauce here. Just sensible industrial policy and hard work. If Suzuki thinks its all too hard then goodbye. Stellantis is coming out with decent cheap small EVs. Others will too. The direction of travel has been in place for years. The aim is to reduce CO2 (a good aim)
The "secret sauce" is massively reduced production costs (essentially slave labour) and questionable quality. The Chinese are knocking-out cheap rubbish at a worrying pace and are dumping it in Western markets in an attempt to put their competitors out of business (this is not new and it's not just happening in the car market). When emissions guff and inflation has added an extra third to the price of many Western cars, you'll see get budget-conscious buyers abandoning the likes of Ford and Vauxhall and being suckered in by BYD and Ming Garages instead. If you've any experience of Chinese QC and "engineering" practices behind the thin veneer of massive touchscreens, you'll know why this is a bad thing.OPC100 said:
This seems so stupid to me when you basically penalise Suzuki that are generally producing low co2 simple / mild hybrid swifts and ignis at £20k, in the same way as JLR with high co2 £100k+ suv's. 
MajorMantra said:
Grumble. The incentives are clearly wrong when the small economical cars are all being pushed out by much larger crossovers.
Brett748 said:
How can replacing small, 1000kg cars with 2 tonne+ EVs with the associated embodied energy sustainable?!
The world has gone mad.
The world has gone mad.
xu5 said:
My 180bhp non hybrid Swift consistantly gets 47 -50 mpg over a tank without trying. Dont know how that equates to an EV but it is a sad day to be loosing another lightweight, simple everyday car.
It's a policy own goal isn't it.In many countries, not just the UK, the rush to introduce new rules about powertrains will cost families more money and take more years than something more insightful.
For example: drivers in the UK travel a mere 18 miles per day - a distance easily covered by hybrid vehicles in electric-only mode. Even the Americans at 40 miles per day are serviceable with hybrids.
Hybrids cost less than full-on battery-electric vehicles.
Hybrids are more familiar when it's time to top up.
Hybrids won't frighten your ageing mum with thoughts about range.
Hybrids require fewer of the rare elements that are difficult and costly to source.
Hybrids typically weigh less than full-on battery-electric vehicles, so there's potential savings on road maintenance.
Honda CEO Toshihiro Mibe has been one of the voices saying that there's a better way. Imagine the social pressure he and others like him face when they simply attempt to share the maths.
Even a petrol powertrain, non-hybrid, might be "less bad" if it's ranked at the thrifty end. Replacing a car already in service has knock-on costs and potentially unintended consequences.
At the end of the day: If government policy makers want to transform the greatest number of petrol miles into electric miles, they'd opt for a more nuanced approach. Non?
unsprung said:
OPC100 said:
This seems so stupid to me when you basically penalise Suzuki that are generally producing low co2 simple / mild hybrid swifts and ignis at £20k, in the same way as JLR with high co2 £100k+ suv's.
MajorMantra said:
Grumble. The incentives are clearly wrong when the small economical cars are all being pushed out by much larger crossovers.
Brett748 said:
How can replacing small, 1000kg cars with 2 tonne+ EVs with the associated embodied energy sustainable?!
The world has gone mad.
The world has gone mad.
xu5 said:
My 180bhp non hybrid Swift consistantly gets 47 -50 mpg over a tank without trying. Dont know how that equates to an EV but it is a sad day to be loosing another lightweight, simple everyday car.
It's a policy own goal isn't it.In many countries, not just the UK, the rush to introduce new rules about powertrains will cost families more money and take more years than something more insightful.
For example: drivers in the UK travel a mere 18 miles per day - a distance easily covered by hybrid vehicles in electric-only mode. Even the Americans at 40 miles per day are serviceable with hybrids.
Hybrids cost less than full-on battery-electric vehicles.
Hybrids are more familiar when it's time to top up.
Hybrids won't frighten your ageing mum with thoughts about range.
Hybrids require fewer of the rare elements that are difficult and costly to source.
Hybrids typically weigh less than full-on battery-electric vehicles, so there's potential savings on road maintenance.
Honda CEO Toshihiro Mibe has been one of the voices saying that there's a better way. Imagine the social pressure he and others like him face when they simply attempt to share the maths.
Even a petrol powertrain, non-hybrid, might be "less bad" if it's ranked at the thrifty end. Replacing a car already in service has knock-on costs and potentially unintended consequences.
At the end of the day: If government policy makers want to transform the greatest number of petrol miles into electric miles, they'd opt for a more nuanced approach. Non?
ChrisCh86 said:
OPC100 said:
Actually just reading about the ZEV mandate and it is 22% ev this year. Some manufacturers are going to have to do some serious 'juggling the books' this year to make that work.
Yep - this is just the beginning. I don't think the general public really appreciates the severity of these targets yet.Lots of manufacturers are going to stop selling many models in the UK in order to hit the ZEV mandate targets (they will be available in other countries though).
I can't imagine that the targets will stay as they are with the new government - but we'll have to wait and see.
The ZEV targets are:
2024 22%
2025 28%
2026 33%
2027 38%
2028 52%
2029 66%
2030 80%
Every car sold that doesn't comply faces a £15,000 fine.
Edited by ChrisCh86 on Friday 28th June 22:30
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