Speed limiters from July 7 2024 on all new cars
Discussion
E90_M3Ross said:
I'm not sure that's especially relevant to the discussion at hand. Having a mobile phone turned on doesn't interfere with driving RE the speed limit, and if you do go over the speed limit, it's not going to get you a speeding fine. Then there is the fact that mobile phones, on the whole, are incredibly useful for us to use. Having a speed limiter in a car purely giving data to the powers that be serves absolutely no benefit to us, as drivers, at all. It is purely a detrimental thing.
No, no... it is for your own good because you are a blithering idiot who cannot possibly make your own appropriate decisions based on information available to you... (in the eyes of our esteemed leaders) 
'Trust us to look after you'.
If it's used here then I wonder what would happen....
Speed limiter does restrict speed so you can never speed - loss of tax through speeding charges....increased VED???
Speed limiter doesn't restrict speed - increased fine amount because "you were warned by your car and still disobeyed"???
Speed limiter does restrict speed so you can never speed - loss of tax through speeding charges....increased VED???
Speed limiter doesn't restrict speed - increased fine amount because "you were warned by your car and still disobeyed"???
RSTurboPaul said:
The graphics in this report perfectly illustrate both the reasonableness of the 85th Percentile approach to speed limit setting and the utter stupidity of artificially lowered limits.
+1RSTurboPaul said:
(We can also see that an 80mph motorway limit would fit perfectly with the 85th percentile approach.)
+1. Upping the limit would save lives. Strange but true.
Lack of movement on this limit shows how politics trumps road safety.
RSTurboPaul said:
Further, one can observe the mindlessness of 20mph limits, with 80-85% of drivers exceeding the limit but only 10-17% exceeding 30mph. If the limit was 30mph, that would accord almost perfectly with the 85th percentile approach to speed limit setting, reflecting the majority of drivers' speed choices rather than imposing what is arguably an illogical and political decision to implement 20mph limits in many cases.
Indeed. More political fiddling about in an attempt to be seen to
be doing something useful that is actually costing lives.
I am disappointed that a limit with 85% non-compliance is allowed
to be kept.
I think the wider point is also true: UK speed limit setting doesn't make
much sense and so is widely ignored.
Still, I guess UK authorities like the £240+ million a year from fines on
daft limits. It's all about the revenue, not road safety.
E90_M3Ross said:
biggbn said:
Biggy Stardust said:
biggbn said:
I'm assuming all of those vehemently against nanny state snooping don't have mobile phones, Internet connections, smart TV or shop online, use store cards etc.... I'm always astonished how they manage to post their protestations given they must surely live off grid with the comfort of a thick blanket and a log burner...(sounds like heaven to me by the way!!)
Are you in favour of nanny state snooping? I would prefer for them to have minimum involvement with my life, ie leave me in peace if I've done nothing wrong.
Edited by biggbn on Monday 3rd June 17:23
biggbn said:
Ross, again, I'm not commenting on the speed limiters, I'm commenting on those who object to data being collected and shared, and wondering how they live their lives to minimise this modern phenomenon if it is such an issue for them. Just a wee thought experiment if you like. And I've still to have an answer from anyone...it seems as a rule many are happy for data to be collected and shared from their phones, laptops, smart devices etc...etc...just not their cars, no, never their cars, and I wonder why that is. Perhaps I should have a less inquisitive mind?
Consider that this nanny state snooping costs money which would be better spent elsewhere. Every nosy inspector is an unproductive bod, often getting in the way of the productive."Everything in short supply except rules"- Ham Gamgee,
scenario8 said:
Lil_Red_GTV said:
Well technically you are doing something wrong if you are speeding.
Around 80% of us do it, though, so the authorities are in the weird position of trying to encourage the law-breaking majority to comply without producing an outcry.
I’m mildly interested in this 80% figure. Where is that from? Presumably it’s some sort of national figure and measured only over “averaged across any given journey” or something? I would be happy to wager that figure would hover around 99% with reference to 20mph zones in outer south London where I seem to spend my life. (Outside of certain specific roads at specific times of the day/year).Around 80% of us do it, though, so the authorities are in the weird position of trying to encourage the law-breaking majority to comply without producing an outcry.
biggbn said:
Ross, again, I'm not commenting on the speed limiters, I'm commenting on those who object to data being collected and shared, and wondering how they live their lives to minimise this modern phenomenon if it is such an issue for them. Just a wee thought experiment if you like. And I've still to have an answer from anyone...it seems as a rule many are happy for data to be collected and shared from their phones, laptops, smart devices etc...etc...just not their cars, no, never their cars, and I wonder why that is. Perhaps I should have a less inquisitive mind?
I don't use any personal social media. I don't have WhatsApp or a Facebook profile. I have AdBlock Plus and use Brave. I always turn off cookies when the opportunity is offered. I only use my actual birthdate if there are official consequences for using a false one. I don't use Apple equipment. I minimise what's installed on my phone and police the permissions granted to apps carefully. I routinely randomise my Google advertising ID. I don't have any smart devices - no smart meter, no Nest or Ring, no Alexa or equivalent, no other home automation. I don't talk to machines and don't use any of the "AI" assistants baked into operating systems or directly into devices. My location and maps search history is disabled. I generally avoid Google and Bing as search engines although this is sometimes impossible. We moved (amongst other reasons) to be credibly out of the country for the census. I don't use a state GP (or any other state services I can manage to avoid). I never share credentials between services or use Google or similar social logins.Edited by biggbn on Monday 3rd June 17:23
That's a subset, but you get the idea. This isn't just about cars. It's a much bigger trust issue and one in which neither the present administration nor (far more so) the incoming lot have a good track record. If there is data, they will abuse it and they will not care one hoot whether you object.
Fox- said:
Deranged Rover said:
Surely if they are auto-sensing, you can just leave them on all the time?
No, they must be switched on each time you use the car and they remain on for the rest of the journey (and stay on if you stop for a short time).This resulted in much complaining from people who said it was rubbish and automatic should mean automatic all the time, even though this way of doing it is much more sensible.
Unfortunately, BMW eventually listened to this and the current cars, including my own, are now on all the time. So you're only ever one small bit of water away from the wipers helpfully smearing the screen with dust when you don't want them to. It was much better the way it was before.
Although I like that the auto-lights work every time I drive them.
But they both have speed limiters, albeit set for 155mph. But apparently they only operate in 6th gear and 5th will get them past 155!
Luckily I can't see me buying a post July 2024 car given my age. My biggest concern would be where instances of over-riding the limiter would be recorded.
964Cup said:
biggbn said:
Ross, again, I'm not commenting on the speed limiters, I'm commenting on those who object to data being collected and shared, and wondering how they live their lives to minimise this modern phenomenon if it is such an issue for them. Just a wee thought experiment if you like. And I've still to have an answer from anyone...it seems as a rule many are happy for data to be collected and shared from their phones, laptops, smart devices etc...etc...just not their cars, no, never their cars, and I wonder why that is. Perhaps I should have a less inquisitive mind?
I don't use any personal social media. I don't have WhatsApp or a Facebook profile. I have AdBlock Plus and use Brave. I always turn off cookies when the opportunity is offered. I only use my actual birthdate if there are official consequences for using a false one. I don't use Apple equipment. I minimise what's installed on my phone and police the permissions granted to apps carefully. I routinely randomise my Google advertising ID. I don't have any smart devices - no smart meter, no Nest or Ring, no Alexa or equivalent, no other home automation. I don't talk to machines and don't use any of the "AI" assistants baked into operating systems or directly into devices. My location and maps search history is disabled. I generally avoid Google and Bing as search engines although this is sometimes impossible. We moved (amongst other reasons) to be credibly out of the country for the census. I don't use a state GP (or any other state services I can manage to avoid). I never share credentials between services or use Google or similar social logins.Edited by biggbn on Monday 3rd June 17:23
That's a subset, but you get the idea. This isn't just about cars. It's a much bigger trust issue and one in which neither the present administration nor (far more so) the incoming lot have a good track record. If there is data, they will abuse it and they will not care one hoot whether you object.
964Cup said:
I don't use any personal social media. I don't have WhatsApp or a Facebook profile. I have AdBlock Plus and use Brave. I always turn off cookies when the opportunity is offered. I only use my actual birthdate if there are official consequences for using a false one. I don't use Apple equipment. I minimise what's installed on my phone and police the permissions granted to apps carefully. I routinely randomise my Google advertising ID. I don't have any smart devices - no smart meter, no Nest or Ring, no Alexa or equivalent, no other home automation. I don't talk to machines and don't use any of the "AI" assistants baked into operating systems or directly into devices. My location and maps search history is disabled. I generally avoid Google and Bing as search engines although this is sometimes impossible. We moved (amongst other reasons) to be credibly out of the country for the census. I don't use a state GP (or any other state services I can manage to avoid). I never share credentials between services or use Google or similar social logins.
That's a subset, but you get the idea. This isn't just about cars. It's a much bigger trust issue and one in which neither the present administration nor (far more so) the incoming lot have a good track record. If there is data, they will abuse it and they will not care one hoot whether you object.
Are you a secret agent? That's a subset, but you get the idea. This isn't just about cars. It's a much bigger trust issue and one in which neither the present administration nor (far more so) the incoming lot have a good track record. If there is data, they will abuse it and they will not care one hoot whether you object.
JAMSXR said:
Are you a secret agent?
I wish.No, I just don't feel the need to hand endless leverage to tech companies; nor do I trust them to look after data that could directly be used to harm me if breached. The data I'm obliged to share and the number of unsuitable parties with whom I have to share it is bad enough without contributing to it on my own recognisance.
964Cup said:
JAMSXR said:
Are you a secret agent?
I wish.No, I just don't feel the need to hand endless leverage to tech companies; nor do I trust them to look after data that could directly be used to harm me if breached. The data I'm obliged to share and the number of unsuitable parties with whom I have to share it is bad enough without contributing to it on my own recognisance.
biggbn said:
Isn't your username and garage listing not a problem for your relative anonymity, or is it all an elaborate subterfuge? I'm genuinely thinking of dumping my smartphone for an old charge once a month Nokia Brick and dedicate more time to reading and writing moving forward
Don't have the car I'm named for any more and don't keep the garage listing up to date. But in any case, I'm cautious about certain corporate and governmental uses of technology - I'm not a hermit. I post my cars here from time to time without redacting the plates and I imagine I wouldn't be that hard to dox; that's not the point. My concern is being profiled, manipulated and controlled by corporations and government (or, considering government in the worst case, persecuted). The government, of course, already knows where I live and what cars I own (see above about data I have to provide) and the corporations aren't yet at the point where they are data-mining the PH archives for nefarious purposes.Most of my avoidance of social media is frankly because I don't see the point as much as because I don't want to share the data. The rest of my tech aversion is just caution (Google the Scoular spearphishing incident if you want some insight) along with scepticism about the benefits - even if you're not concerned about the government taking control of your smart home (which is foreseen in the relevant legislation) you might baulk at having a thermostat you can't alter because the supporting cloud service has crashed. Or, I suppose, because some true believer at the relevant tech firm decides how warm (or cold) your house is allowed to be because of the climate.
It might be worth adding that I have worked professionally in tech, cyber and related areas for my whole life, so my scepticism is also founded on a reasonable understanding of the fairly parlous state of things below the surface.
964Cup said:
Don't have the car I'm named for any more and don't keep the garage listing up to date. But in any case, I'm cautious about certain corporate and governmental uses of technology - I'm not a hermit. I post my cars here from time to time without redacting the plates and I imagine I wouldn't be that hard to dox; that's not the point. My concern is being profiled, manipulated and controlled by corporations and government (or, considering government in the worst case, persecuted). The government, of course, already knows where I live and what cars I own (see above about data I have to provide) and the corporations aren't yet at the point where they are data-mining the PH archives for nefarious purposes.
Most of my avoidance of social media is frankly because I don't see the point as much as because I don't want to share the data. The rest of my tech aversion is just caution (Google the Scoular spearphishing incident if you want some insight) along with scepticism about the benefits - even if you're not concerned about the government taking control of your smart home (which is foreseen in the relevant legislation) you might baulk at having a thermostat you can't alter because the supporting cloud service has crashed. Or, I suppose, because some true believer at the relevant tech firm decides how warm (or cold) your house is allowed to be because of the climate.
It might be worth adding that I have worked professionally in tech, cyber and related areas for my whole life, so my scepticism is also founded on a reasonable understanding of the fairly parlous state of things below the surface.
You probably should redact your plates if you post pics on here. I posted a pic of one of my vans on here, only place i have ever posted pics of it online and shortly after i got a load of congestion charge and bus lane fines from london when my van has never left scotland other than a couple of trips to durham and blackpool.Most of my avoidance of social media is frankly because I don't see the point as much as because I don't want to share the data. The rest of my tech aversion is just caution (Google the Scoular spearphishing incident if you want some insight) along with scepticism about the benefits - even if you're not concerned about the government taking control of your smart home (which is foreseen in the relevant legislation) you might baulk at having a thermostat you can't alter because the supporting cloud service has crashed. Or, I suppose, because some true believer at the relevant tech firm decides how warm (or cold) your house is allowed to be because of the climate.
It might be worth adding that I have worked professionally in tech, cyber and related areas for my whole life, so my scepticism is also founded on a reasonable understanding of the fairly parlous state of things below the surface.
There were no pics of it online at sale either i got it in a private sale from someone who never advertised it, and they had a private plate on it before since 2010.
the good news about these crappy speed limiters are it's prompted me to go and buy an older manual, two seater that I can rag around for the s
ts and giggles forever hopefully if I can keep it running.
Doing my bit for the environment
Plan will be to keep it amazingly used and mechanically looked after so my son can have it when he is older enough to drive in 15 years
ts and giggles forever hopefully if I can keep it running.Doing my bit for the environment
Plan will be to keep it amazingly used and mechanically looked after so my son can have it when he is older enough to drive in 15 years
The Selfish Gene said:
the good news about these crappy speed limiters are it's prompted me to go and buy an older manual, two seater that I can rag around for the sts and giggles forever hopefully if I can keep it running.
Doing my bit for the environment
Plan will be to keep it amazingly used and mechanically looked after so my son can have it when he is older enough to drive in 15 years
just waiting for the eco-mentalists in the next government to scupper your plans by outlawing any car over 2litres on the basis that no-one needs something that big...ts and giggles forever hopefully if I can keep it running.Doing my bit for the environment
Plan will be to keep it amazingly used and mechanically looked after so my son can have it when he is older enough to drive in 15 years
DodgyGeezer said:
The Selfish Gene said:
the good news about these crappy speed limiters are it's prompted me to go and buy an older manual, two seater that I can rag around for the sts and giggles forever hopefully if I can keep it running.
Doing my bit for the environment
Plan will be to keep it amazingly used and mechanically looked after so my son can have it when he is older enough to drive in 15 years
just waiting for the eco-mentalists in the next government to scupper your plans by outlawing any car over 2litres on the basis that no-one needs something that big...ts and giggles forever hopefully if I can keep it running.Doing my bit for the environment
Plan will be to keep it amazingly used and mechanically looked after so my son can have it when he is older enough to drive in 15 years
DodgyGeezer said:
The Selfish Gene said:
the good news about these crappy speed limiters are it's prompted me to go and buy an older manual, two seater that I can rag around for the sts and giggles forever hopefully if I can keep it running.
Doing my bit for the environment
Plan will be to keep it amazingly used and mechanically looked after so my son can have it when he is older enough to drive in 15 years
just waiting for the eco-mentalists in the next government to scupper your plans by outlawing any car over 2litres on the basis that no-one needs something that big...ts and giggles forever hopefully if I can keep it running.Doing my bit for the environment
Plan will be to keep it amazingly used and mechanically looked after so my son can have it when he is older enough to drive in 15 years
ker politicians with engines bigger than 2.0 for that to happenWon't be necessary where I live anyway. Everyone drives round in a complete daze 13 mph under whatever the limit is. ALL. THE. BLOODY. TIME.
I felt like the country was grinding to a halt today. Just endlessly caught behind people doing 40 or less in wide open, clear, well paved A roads. I actually managed my first "quad" overtake this morning. Normally my car only really has the guts to do one car at a time, but people are trundling around so slowly these days I managed 4 in one go. Then had a string of 3's.
I don't know what's happening to people.
This coupled with the feeling that there seems to people people about at all hours, trundling around. There is no "quiet" time.
I felt like the country was grinding to a halt today. Just endlessly caught behind people doing 40 or less in wide open, clear, well paved A roads. I actually managed my first "quad" overtake this morning. Normally my car only really has the guts to do one car at a time, but people are trundling around so slowly these days I managed 4 in one go. Then had a string of 3's.
I don't know what's happening to people.
This coupled with the feeling that there seems to people people about at all hours, trundling around. There is no "quiet" time.
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