RE: 2024 Lotus Emeya | PH Review
Discussion
DonkeyApple said:
BYD Seal is an interesting case. It's £25k in China and that's retail. In terms of factory cost, it's probably rolling off the line for no more than £10-15k. There is obviously a cost to export but it is widely accepted that manufacturers apply mark-up based on the consumers affordability in that particular market. So markups range from 40-120+% fundamentally based on how dumb a consumer market is deemed to be and their access to easy credit.
So what, business is business and none of us need to buy these things but first look at these Lotus cars and one might be forgiven for struggling to see what sets them apart from the BYD Seal? They're both inexpensive steel cars banged out on an ultra efficient production line in a market where land and labour is far more cost effective than Europe or elsewhere in the West. Apart from a bit more on materials as they've loaded it up with batteries, albeit clearly quite cheap cells, this Lotus really isn't going to be costing notably more to put together than a BUD Seal or the other cheap Chinese car the Tesla 3/Y.
By comparison the Taycan is made in Germany, a much higher cost market and it also imports cells from Korea for assembly into batteries locally so isn't benefitting from super cheap Chinese batteries.
While the Taycan has a hell of a mark-up it's really, really difficult to see where the value is in the Lotus and why it's trading near Taycan prices when it clearly ought to be closer to Tesla/BYD pricing. It's clearly seeking to be acquired as a modern, faux Veblen product?
Are cars such as the Mercedes EQE really any different? It seems to me that all of these "one box" electric saloons / hatches are pretty much the same thing underneath and manufacturers are only competing on how big / numerous the touchscreens are, how many apps they have, how many other distractions from driving they can offer and of course the "imagine".So what, business is business and none of us need to buy these things but first look at these Lotus cars and one might be forgiven for struggling to see what sets them apart from the BYD Seal? They're both inexpensive steel cars banged out on an ultra efficient production line in a market where land and labour is far more cost effective than Europe or elsewhere in the West. Apart from a bit more on materials as they've loaded it up with batteries, albeit clearly quite cheap cells, this Lotus really isn't going to be costing notably more to put together than a BUD Seal or the other cheap Chinese car the Tesla 3/Y.
By comparison the Taycan is made in Germany, a much higher cost market and it also imports cells from Korea for assembly into batteries locally so isn't benefitting from super cheap Chinese batteries.
While the Taycan has a hell of a mark-up it's really, really difficult to see where the value is in the Lotus and why it's trading near Taycan prices when it clearly ought to be closer to Tesla/BYD pricing. It's clearly seeking to be acquired as a modern, faux Veblen product?
If motorists are eventually going to be forced into a homogenised Emperor's New Clothes "solution" (absolutely hate that word!
) , why not just lease the cheapest? In the case of this...errr..."Lotus", the brand doesn't mean anything to badge snobs anyway.GT9 said:
PH 'man physics'.
EV with questionable efficiency = let's make a massive deal out of it.
EV with really good efficiency = only kerb weight matters, no-one cares about efficiency.
I get a bit grumpy that no one mentions efficiency, just range.EV with questionable efficiency = let's make a massive deal out of it.
EV with really good efficiency = only kerb weight matters, no-one cares about efficiency.
No one gives a crap about range on ICE cars. My car will do a genuine 200-220 miles on a 60kwh battery. A hummer EV does 300 miles, so it’s better… ignore the fact it has a 200 and something kwh battery pack that weighs as much as a small moon.
If I had a car which needed 110kwh to do 200 miles, I may as well get a petrol V8, because I’m not going to be able to charge that at home, and it’ll cost about the same.*
As others have said, I suspect the lotus products are still pretty inefficient, and that’s why it’s not mentioned.
- slight exaggeration perhaps, but you get my point.
I like the look of this, but I would be interested to know if it's more efficient than the (very) inefficient Eletre.
It is too expensive though - the whole car is designed and built in China and should have a price commensurate with that - but it will have most equipment as standard (unlike the Porsche where everything is extra).
I suspect that this too will get some good deals on lease agreements a few months from now, just like the Eletre.
It is too expensive though - the whole car is designed and built in China and should have a price commensurate with that - but it will have most equipment as standard (unlike the Porsche where everything is extra).
I suspect that this too will get some good deals on lease agreements a few months from now, just like the Eletre.
Feel a lot of the "hate" here is from people who just wanted Lotus to carry on making a few lightweight Elise and Eviras. Financially, that was never going to be a viable option. They needed more volumes to survive and the only way they were going to achieve this was with an SUV and given the way things are going, it would only make sense to do one as an EV. Once they were doing that, it wasn't a huge step to do a saloon as well.
Can't really see they had any other choice. Given where they came from, I would say they are not a bad first effort. Suspect the Gen 2 models will be a lot better.
Can't really see they had any other choice. Given where they came from, I would say they are not a bad first effort. Suspect the Gen 2 models will be a lot better.
BigChiefmuffinAgain said:
Feel a lot of the "hate" here is from people who just wanted Lotus to carry on making a few lightweight Elise and Eviras. Financially, that was never going to be a viable option. They needed more volumes to survive and the only way they were going to achieve this was with an SUV and given the way things are going, it would only make sense to do one as an EV. Once they were doing that, it wasn't a huge step to do a saloon as well.
Can't really see they had any other choice. Given where they came from, I would say they are not a bad first effort. Suspect the Gen 2 models will be a lot better.
Plus quite a lot of people hate EV’s, which I get. I’d prefer to keep driving ICE cars indefinitely rather than soulless EV’s, but there we go. Can't really see they had any other choice. Given where they came from, I would say they are not a bad first effort. Suspect the Gen 2 models will be a lot better.
Walshenham said:
I get a bit grumpy that no one mentions efficiency, just range.
No one gives a crap about range on ICE cars. My car will do a genuine 200-220 miles on a 60kwh battery. A hummer EV does 300 miles, so it’s better… ignore the fact it has a 200 and something kwh battery pack that weighs as much as a small moon.
If I had a car which needed 110kwh to do 200 miles, I may as well get a petrol V8, because I’m not going to be able to charge that at home, and it’ll cost about the same.*
As others have said, I suspect the lotus products are still pretty inefficient, and that’s why it’s not mentioned.
I am 100% with you. Poor efficiency leads to mass for larger batteries, and crucially for me as a potential buyer - leads to enormous cars you can't easily drive around the UK. Like this thing. No one gives a crap about range on ICE cars. My car will do a genuine 200-220 miles on a 60kwh battery. A hummer EV does 300 miles, so it’s better… ignore the fact it has a 200 and something kwh battery pack that weighs as much as a small moon.
If I had a car which needed 110kwh to do 200 miles, I may as well get a petrol V8, because I’m not going to be able to charge that at home, and it’ll cost about the same.*
As others have said, I suspect the lotus products are still pretty inefficient, and that’s why it’s not mentioned.
- slight exaggeration perhaps, but you get my point.
Efficiency solves everything. I couldnt buy a Tesla with their current build quality and controls - but, can't help but admire how they absolutely destroy anything else out there for miles per KWh...
Harry H said:
As usual from Nick that was a bloody hard read.
Does he always write like that?It's not that the language was hard to understand, more that author was paid by the word. I gave up after the second paragraph. I wanted to give up after the first, carrying on was a mistake! It appeared that the author didn't have anything of value to write about the subject and plenty of time to write it.
DonkeyApple said:
jrad said:
why do none of the reports about this car so far talk about efficiency?
Because it's not a Honda Jazz aimed at Mrs Miggins and her pressed budget. Adding range by simply adding more battery capacity is a compromise. If you plug your Eletre into your typical home charger after 12 hours you'll still only have added 72% of charge because the battery is simply vast. A more efficient car with a smaller battery and the same range is much easier to live with. Which is why it is weird that in a report about a car like this they don't mention miles per kWh anywhere.
Alfa numeric said:
The article said:
Lotus has successfully delivered an EV with sufficient range, space, comfort, speed and recharge capacity to make such a journey conceivable. Agreeable, even..
...just don't bring any luggage.
If you need more space then you get the SUV version
jenkosrugby said:
I think it looks utterly fantastic............I just don't get all the kia comments....On what planet does this look like a kia?.
I am 100% deadly serious, If I had never seen an Emeya before and somebody presented me with this exact image and said it was a 2nd gen Stinger I would absolutely believe them.I'm not saying it looks like a stinger but it does look like something modern Kia could produce. Kia are actually very good at making large cars that wear their size well. Here is an image of an EV6 which has been shrunk vertically by 15%. To my eyes it's no worse than the lotus.
Edited by murphyaj on Tuesday 2nd July 13:24
BigChiefmuffinAgain said:
Feel a lot of the "hate" here is from people who just wanted Lotus to carry on making a few lightweight Elise and Eviras. Financially, that was never going to be a viable option.
Lotus were profitable from 2016 with the Elise and Evora. The question wasn't about surviving, but whether they would continue as a boutique manufacturer of 2,000 cars per year or to try to pivot into the mainstream with volume.murphyaj said:
Which is why it is weird that in a report about a car like this they don't mention miles per kWh anywhere.
As you likely know - efficiency depends on many things, and it’’s likely a press car will be the lower side due to it be driven flat out everywhere.I imagine the miles per kWh of this will be between 1.8 and 2.8.
BrokenSkunk said:
Harry H said:
As usual from Nick that was a bloody hard read.
Does he always write like that?It's not that the language was hard to understand, more that author was paid by the word. I gave up after the second paragraph. I wanted to give up after the first, carrying on was a mistake! It appeared that the author didn't have anything of value to write about the subject and plenty of time to write it.
Oh, and I'm a Lotus owner but I'm not foaming at the mouth about them making these.
Like my fellow PH contributors, this leaves me colder than a February weekend in Skegness. The electric offerings have seemingly nothing to do with Lotus in Norfolk at all.
The companies decades long mantra of ‘light is right’ has been jettisoned as has any pretence of being ‘for the drivers’. I still fancy an Emira despite its woeful launch and lack of development. Still no convertible. No faster i4. Limited colours etc.
The roof isn’t stressed on the car and a removeable targa style panel, perhaps with a soft top you can stow behind the seats, surely wouldn’t have been the biggest engineering challenge they ever faced and it would have helped capitalise on the Emira’s one stand out feature- the looks.
Wasted opportunity. The Spider option should have been prepped and on sale by now.
The companies decades long mantra of ‘light is right’ has been jettisoned as has any pretence of being ‘for the drivers’. I still fancy an Emira despite its woeful launch and lack of development. Still no convertible. No faster i4. Limited colours etc.
The roof isn’t stressed on the car and a removeable targa style panel, perhaps with a soft top you can stow behind the seats, surely wouldn’t have been the biggest engineering challenge they ever faced and it would have helped capitalise on the Emira’s one stand out feature- the looks.
Wasted opportunity. The Spider option should have been prepped and on sale by now.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff