What am I getting wrong about sports cars?
Discussion
You discovered the the truth. Since I was a teen I was watching Top Gear and dreaming about the future when I wiIl be able to afford some of the machinery I lusted after. I got my first car when I was quite old (~27) but still poor - after I graduated and got a proper job. It was a E46 BMW, and soon later I added an MX-5 (NB) to use as a track day/driver training car. SInce than (I'm 42 now) I went through a couple of cars and learned that:
- a lot of "car enhtusiasts" and sometimes even "professionals" have no idea what they are talking about
- the price is not a good indicator of driving fun
- speed doesn't equal fun, especially on the road
- older cars are generally more fun then their newer versions
- the differences between most modern cars are minimal.
There are still options though. The ND you mentioned is brilliant - all you need to do is choose ND2 (high reving engine) and change the alignment. GR Yaris is another option (I own one). Lots of French stuff, like even the basic Clio, is quite good. You have to look though, and don't believe what you read and see on youtube. In reality there is not much difference between a top of the line "premium" car and a well specced Golf.
Michal
- a lot of "car enhtusiasts" and sometimes even "professionals" have no idea what they are talking about
- the price is not a good indicator of driving fun
- speed doesn't equal fun, especially on the road
- older cars are generally more fun then their newer versions
- the differences between most modern cars are minimal.
There are still options though. The ND you mentioned is brilliant - all you need to do is choose ND2 (high reving engine) and change the alignment. GR Yaris is another option (I own one). Lots of French stuff, like even the basic Clio, is quite good. You have to look though, and don't believe what you read and see on youtube. In reality there is not much difference between a top of the line "premium" car and a well specced Golf.
Michal
It's all relative - older cars are generally more fun and engaging. Newer stuff, even "focused" sports cars tend to be a bit dull when compared to something a bit older (provided it is a fit/upgraded example).
There are plenty of threads on here saying much the same e.g. the recent GT4 discussion.
It's the same old thing - new cars are great but if you want fun, go older..
There are plenty of threads on here saying much the same e.g. the recent GT4 discussion.
It's the same old thing - new cars are great but if you want fun, go older..
giveitfish said:
Electric power steering reduces the parasitic loss and improves mpg/emissions
plenty said:
Hoofy said:
plenty said:
Emissions killed hydraulic steering.
Please explain?Ironically, I had this page read out to me by my browser whilst editing a classic car video on another screen.
modern sports cars particularly cheaper ones are comprimised.
More expensive ones are almost too good for normal roads..
My 996 hits the sweet spot for me, my Mr's FL5 type r is probably one of the most fun out of the box cars I've driven in recent years.
The McLaren is beautiful to pilot but you generally have to be going at pace to feel it whereas the fl5 I can have a blast in going to the shops and back
More expensive ones are almost too good for normal roads..
My 996 hits the sweet spot for me, my Mr's FL5 type r is probably one of the most fun out of the box cars I've driven in recent years.
The McLaren is beautiful to pilot but you generally have to be going at pace to feel it whereas the fl5 I can have a blast in going to the shops and back
turboLP said:
whether I'm some kind of wannabe who THINKS he's into cars but is in reality just maybe a brainwashed sheep or something?
I don't think so at all. Everybody likes different cars, for different reasons. Being a petrolhead, or someone who's into cars, purely means that you have a passion/interest/like/love/mad obsession for something automotive. There's no "rule" to follow.That being said, I also put the way a car sounds pretty high up on my list. I remember starting a comment war on YouTube (okay, it's not exactly difficult) when I mentioned I preferred my Impreza over my Evo, even though the latter was objectively a more capable car, only because I'd rather go round a track 5 seconds slower but enjoy the Subaru rumble. Meanwhile some folks don't care what noise it makes, they just want to go as fast as the car will let them. That's fine too.
I echo what's been said about newer cars being less fun to drive than older ones. Whilst modern tech and safety features are undoubtedly better in today's cars than those from 20 years ago, they also have the poisoned chalice effect of also including more safety features and other bloaty stuff - because, as mentioned, people like different things. To give an example, many people miss manual gearboxes - I considered myself one of them - but when I switched from a DSG Passat to a manual Golf GTD (works car), even though the Golf was far more poky, I missed the pretty clever auto gearbox.
This is why I have a Jag XKR (convertible, but whatever). In normal mode, it drives like a luxury car with some noise. Great steering feel, great brakes but not over done. Sport mode, foot down, and it sounds amazing, goes like the clappers if you want that and I can even tweak the seats to hold me in better. My goodness it’s good.
My old 944 Turbo was a really fun car too, fast enough, great handling, decent ride… which is why they’re appreciating I guess. “Only” 250HP but I’d have another very happily. The slight turbo lag gives an impression of fast without actually being that fast.
My old 944 Turbo was a really fun car too, fast enough, great handling, decent ride… which is why they’re appreciating I guess. “Only” 250HP but I’d have another very happily. The slight turbo lag gives an impression of fast without actually being that fast.
I don't think you're getting anything wrong OP, we all form our opinions based on others and reviews right up until we may get to drive those cars and it may be underwhelming or it may blow you away.
A lot of people rave about the RenaultSport Clio 172/182, me included as I've had two of them. But I've read a few comments on here from people who bought them and just didn't like them. Perhaps they expected more or they simply didn't gel with how it went. A friend of mine had dreamed of owning a Honda Integra Type-R, which I've read nothing but good things about. He had it less than 12 months, it was slower than he expected and he just never got on with it. Possibly hyped up in his mind and then it didn't deliver.
One thing I have definitely found OP, is that faster doesn't always mean better or more fun. I have a few cars ranging from a Twingo 133 to a CLS63, polar opposites when it comes to what kind of drive they are but I have a hell of a lot of fun in a cheap old Saab 9-3 convertible. It's even a diesel (albeit mapped twin turbo) but it goes well, roof down and nice road, it's fun but not necessarily better.
A lot of people rave about the RenaultSport Clio 172/182, me included as I've had two of them. But I've read a few comments on here from people who bought them and just didn't like them. Perhaps they expected more or they simply didn't gel with how it went. A friend of mine had dreamed of owning a Honda Integra Type-R, which I've read nothing but good things about. He had it less than 12 months, it was slower than he expected and he just never got on with it. Possibly hyped up in his mind and then it didn't deliver.
One thing I have definitely found OP, is that faster doesn't always mean better or more fun. I have a few cars ranging from a Twingo 133 to a CLS63, polar opposites when it comes to what kind of drive they are but I have a hell of a lot of fun in a cheap old Saab 9-3 convertible. It's even a diesel (albeit mapped twin turbo) but it goes well, roof down and nice road, it's fun but not necessarily better.
coppice said:
Just buy, borrow or steal a Caterham. Almost everything else feels overweight , unresponsive and dull in comparison.
Exactly this - if you want to be connected to a car, you need low weight and zero assitance/aids so your inputs are solely responsible for how the car drives and as such being smooth and accurate is rewarded. Even going back to sports cars 20+ years ago, they are still compromised in this respect imho.Whether you'd want it as your only car though, depends on how hard-core you are!
Chris
Also, as the performance and grip of normal cars has increased in recent times (let alone the arrival of EVs which move the point'n'squirt game up another notch) then 'sports cars' have an increasing tough time - especially brand new ones that have to meet the latest noise and emissions regs.
I'm tempted to buy a GT86 just because it doesn't have easy performance and has modest grip levels.
Stick an aftermarket exhaust manifold on it and it might sound like the Scoobies of my youth.
I'm tempted to buy a GT86 just because it doesn't have easy performance and has modest grip levels.
Stick an aftermarket exhaust manifold on it and it might sound like the Scoobies of my youth.
Try a MX5, think these are pretty good, or even a 2.0 Z4 (yes 4 cylinder one...the shame I know) - I loved driving this very often when my dad had one (2008 plate), felt nice/light and responsive especially on the smaller 16" wheels might I add, and pretty raspy for what it was - was great fun!
Edited by 7 5 7 on Monday 24th June 09:27
ScoobyChris said:
Exactly this - if you want to be connected to a car, you need low weight and zero assitance/aids so your inputs are solely responsible for how the car drives and as such being smooth and accurate is rewarded. Even going back to sports cars 20+ years ago, they are still compromised in this respect imho.
Whether you'd want it as your only car though, depends on how hard-core you are!
Chris
As an only car, a Seven will turn into a miserable experience. If the roads are dry and it's reasonably warm, they're wonderful, but in the cold and wet they're pretty grim. I used a 420R as my only car for over a year and it's a tough ask. Thankfully, I didn't have a commute, so it's not like I had to endure it every day, but I did a few longer trips in questionable conditions. I'd have willingly removed important parts of my anatomy for the opportunity to swap it for a Mondeo.Whether you'd want it as your only car though, depends on how hard-core you are!
Chris
Having said that, on the high days, there was nothing like it. Completely undressed, visceral, and hugely entertaining.
Exasperated said:
ScoobyChris said:
Exactly this - if you want to be connected to a car, you need low weight and zero assitance/aids so your inputs are solely responsible for how the car drives and as such being smooth and accurate is rewarded. Even going back to sports cars 20+ years ago, they are still compromised in this respect imho.
Whether you'd want it as your only car though, depends on how hard-core you are!
Chris
As an only car, a Seven will turn into a miserable experience. If the roads are dry and it's reasonably warm, they're wonderful, but in the cold and wet they're pretty grim. I used a 420R as my only car for over a year and it's a tough ask. Thankfully, I didn't have a commute, so it's not like I had to endure it every day, but I did a few longer trips in questionable conditions. I'd have willingly removed important parts of my anatomy for the opportunity to swap it for a Mondeo.Whether you'd want it as your only car though, depends on how hard-core you are!
Chris
Having said that, on the high days, there was nothing like it. Completely undressed, visceral, and hugely entertaining.
ScoobyChris said:
Whether you'd want it as your only car though, depends on how hard-core you are!
This is a crucial point to consider.Last month i did the North Coast 500 with friends and took my Marcos. For the actual NC500 it was incredible - huge fun, a proper driving experience and I loved every second of it (the only stressful bit was watching out for sudden road undulations so the exhausts didn't take too much of a battering!".
However, I live down near the south coast of England and the thought of driving the Marcos to our starting point of my friend's mother's house just outside Glasgow, and then driving it all the way back again afterwards was very unappealing, so i had it transported up and back. I love that it is raw, fun and noisy - that is the main appeal. But for seven hours on a motorway? No chance! It also feels very small and very vulnerable in that kind of situation.
That is why modern, softer sports cars come into their own. They do offer most of the fun, but lose some of it in favour of a rather more relaxing driving experience when you need it. Ultimately you just need to work out how hard-core you want to go and what compromises you're willing to accept.
Exasperated said:
ScoobyChris said:
Exactly this - if you want to be connected to a car, you need low weight and zero assitance/aids so your inputs are solely responsible for how the car drives and as such being smooth and accurate is rewarded. Even going back to sports cars 20+ years ago, they are still compromised in this respect imho.
Whether you'd want it as your only car though, depends on how hard-core you are!
Chris
Having said that, on the high days, there was nothing like it. Completely undressed, visceral, and hugely entertaining. Whether you'd want it as your only car though, depends on how hard-core you are!
Chris
A sorted Elise is very close to a Seven if you want something more daily useable but still be a blast on road..
A different type of drive of course but no less involving.
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