An epidemic of insanely slow drivers

[PlywoodPascal]

BunkMoreland said:

*What always amuses me is those people for years that told anyone that listened that they hated "the toriez as they are liars and dishonest" (which is not always an incorrect assessment) But when Bojo or Hancock said "do this, its for your own good" even though it was plainly not thought out. They ignored their hatred of the government and did exactly what they said! So much for their principles...

Edited by BunkMoreland on Monday 17th June 22:20

Most people are prepared to follow a good idea from someone they dislike, nobody wise would ignore everything somebody said just because they dislike them.

[FiF]

nickfrog said:

FiF said:

nickfrog said:

^^ isn't that taught when you learn to drive?

Not when I learnt.

Not surprised. Same for the lack of lane discipline in the UK. I got my licence in 1989 in France and on both counts the instructor would *litteraly* start shouting at me if I forgot his precise instructions on slip roads and absolute lane discipline. I won't forget his choice of words too!

It's a UK driver's education problem at source.

Mine was a good while earlier than that, but it's a regular bone of contention here. There's being taught to drive and taught to pass a test. Some instructors do the former even with learners, even so continuing training is missing.

We all have things that completely trigger a reaction, one of mine is taxi drivers who park on pedestrian crossings and zig zags to drop and collect fares. Professional drivers?

[croyde]

FiF said:

Mine was a good while earlier than that, but it's a regular bone of contention here. There's being taught to drive and taught to pass a test. Some instructors do the former even with learners, even so continuing training is missing.

We all have things that completely trigger a reaction, one of mine is taxi drivers who park on pedestrian crossings and zig zags to drop and collect fares. Professional drivers?

Lack of cops on the road. Cameras only catch speeders like 23 in a 20

This morning they were discussing lowering the point where you are deemed unfit to drive when having had a drink.

All well and good but there's no one to stop you and cameras only catch speeders like 47 in a 40.

I think the over reliance on scameras have contributed to the increase in general bad driving.

[swisstoni]

Or to put it another way, the disappearance of traffic police.

[LightningBlue]

Almost every journey around my county I notice speed limits have been lowered again…over the years this has totally destroyed what had been decent driving roads and I’m not aware of any regular crashes on these stretches, but guess that’s the Vision Zero effect. Thing is if you follow the new lower limits you’ll get overtaken by slow drivers breaking the speed limit but who still drive at 40 everywhere

[LightningBlue]

BrewsterBear said:

Motorway and dual carriageway slip roads are a nightmare these days. The amount of people that amble along slower than the HGVs in lane 1 then expect to merge into a lorry or slam on the brakes because of no forethought whatsoever is terrifying. These people haven't pressed their throttle pedal more than 20% of it's travel in their entire life.

One of my colleagues was asked to go to another site in the county and asked “are there any slip roads”…it turned out she’d had a crash on one and had been actively avoiding them for years. So many people lack the skills and confidence to be on the road

[Julian Scott]

Foss62 said:

That’s just daft. 20 limits are imposed for all sorts of reasons (not primarily safety) and are generally popular with local residents. They are not on ‘main roads’ in any normal sense of the term. Unless 30mph greatly thrills you (maybe your vehicle is a Honda SS50 from 1975?) there seems little to gain from ignoring the 20s and that is why most people observe them. You’d just look like a tool going through our 20 limited village at 30.
I can be very flexible on motorways and NSLs, but I see very little in the way of gains in terms of enjoyment or journey time from breaking 20s and 30s - what’s the point?

I go to Edinburgh a few times a year. Just been for Taylor Swift gig and for the first time encountered the main A702 road from the M6/M74 to Edinburgh has a 20 limit going through Carlops, rest of the road is mostly 60. Its ridiculous.

Yes, it's. tiny village where the road is narrow, but 20 is comically slow as a permanent speed. On the way there, we had a motorbike almost struggle to stay upright ahead of a queue of cars behind as he/she wiggled around keeping under 20. On the way back, we witnessed a car rear-end another as they initially slowed down progressively then slammed on to get under 20.

But yes, safety.

[HTP99]

matchmaker said:

Travelling along the M80 out of Glasgow a few weeks ago. 70mph limit, road fairly clear. I came upon a line of 3 cars doing 60 in the outside lane, behind a P plated Nissan. Nothing in the inside lane for at least half a mile. fk it I thought, I passed all four on the inside giving a long and sustained blast of the horn as I passed the Nissan. They got the hint and moved left.

As they were on P plates, presumably they had recently passed their test. How the juddering fk did they pass?

A few months back I was following, on local roads, a Polo with P plates, upon approaching a roundabout the driver indicated right, got into the right lane and proceed to drive straight over, this happened also at the next roundabout, the 3rd roundabout which was larger and a bit kind of off centered with straight over being slightly to the right, got in the (correct) left lane, indicated right and went straight over.

This isn't the first time I've seen this kind of behaviour in the past couple of years, it's very odd.

[Whataguy]

HTP99 said:

A few months back I was following, on local roads, a Polo with P plates, upon approaching a roundabout the driver indicated right, got into the right lane and proceed to drive straight over, this happened also at the next roundabout, the 3rd roundabout which was larger and a bit kind of off centered with straight over being slightly to the right, got in the (correct) left lane, indicated right and went straight over.

This isn't the first time I've seen this kind of behaviour in the past couple of years, it's very odd.

I see this a lot from any lane, people indicating right, so you drop back/slow down thinking they are going to cut in front but they don't and go straight ahead.

I'm thinking maybe modern drivers are so used to safety assist systems they don't think and have learned to just put an indicator on to avoid the upsetting bongs and steering wheel tugs.

On many modern cars if you have an indicator on, it will switch off the lane keep assist system for when you cross over the white lines on the roundabout.

The systems are supposed to disable at lower speeds anyway, say 25mph or less but I doubt many drivers are actually fully familiar with the details of all their safety systems.

[FiF]

croyde said:

FiF said:

Mine was a good while earlier than that, but it's a regular bone of contention here. There's being taught to drive and taught to pass a test. Some instructors do the former even with learners, even so continuing training is missing.

We all have things that completely trigger a reaction, one of mine is taxi drivers who park on pedestrian crossings and zig zags to drop and collect fares. Professional drivers?

Lack of cops on the road. Cameras only catch speeders like 23 in a 20

This morning they were discussing lowering the point where you are deemed unfit to drive when having had a drink.

All well and good but there's no one to stop you and cameras only catch speeders like 47 in a 40.

I think the over reliance on scameras have contributed to the increase in general bad driving.

To be fair, well perhaps not totally fair, I got fed up with seeing taxi drivers waiting on crossings in a couple of particularly dodgy locations in one town. So reported it and was copied into the instruction to the various sections to effectively be on the lookout for this.

Frustratingly a couple of weeks later there was an area vehicle parked up in full view of one of the problem areas watching the Friday nighttime economy shenanigans. Less than 25m in front of it, stopped on the zigzags was a taxi. Zero action. Not good enough.

[Julian Scott]

dcb said:

Foss62 said:

That’s just daft. 20 limits are imposed for all sorts of reasons (not primarily safety) and are generally popular with local residents. They are not on ‘main roads’ in any normal sense of the term. Unless 30mph greatly thrills you (maybe your vehicle is a Honda SS50 from 1975?) there seems little to gain from ignoring the 20s and that is why most people observe them.

Sure, 20 mph limits are popular with residents, but it's false to say most people
observe them.

The UK Gov's own figures say the 20 mph limits are widely ignored.

UKGov said:

As shown in Figures 13a and 13b, under free flow conditions, 85% of cars exceeded the speed limit at 20mph sites.

More detail on

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/vehicle-s...

Given the large degree of non-compliance with 20 mph limits,
they do look pointless to me.

Our village has had blanket 20 limits imposed, mostly to stop the supercars etc from speeding up and slowing down through the village (to the delight of 100s of young kids videoing) every dry weekend, they've also put speed bumps down the Main Street (which just gives the above-mentioned cars a need to slow and accelerate....living life a quarter-mile at a time, etc).

The grumpy old gits and NIMBYs are over the moon....and yet, over 90% of tickets issued are to locals, not those visiting at a weekend.

[5s Alive]

Julian Scott said:

Our village has had blanket 20 limits imposed, mostly to stop the supercars etc from speeding up and slowing down through the village (to the delight of 100s of young kids videoing) every dry weekend, they've also put speed bumps down the Main Street (which just gives the above-mentioned cars a need to slow and accelerate....living life a quarter-mile at a time, etc).

The grumpy old gits and NIMBYs are over the moon....and yet, over 90% of tickets issued are to locals, not those visiting at a weekend.

We have a blanket 20 limit across the Borders, and while I agree that in specific instances it's justified, it just doesn't seem to have had a beneficial effect compared to the previous 30 limits.

We have the ridiculous situation where vehicles in narrow residential streets are often doing 30-40mph, and sometimes considerably more, whereas on the road in the pic below you get long queues of traffic doing 20mph nose to tail.

Previously there were always gaps in traffic that allowed pedestrians to cross but now you can wait for ages (usually in the pouring rain ).

I'd be much happier with more dynamic restrictions but understand why this approach has been adopted - people either drive with their eyes shut or don't give a st.

No one will be getting ticketed here because Police Scotland have said that the limits will not be enforced. I can't rember the last time I saw a traffic car in any case.

Edited by 5s Alive on Tuesday 18th June 16:04

[Monkeylegend]

Julian Scott said:

The grumpy old gits and NIMBYs are over the moon....and yet, over 90% of tickets issued are to locals, not those visiting at a weekend.

Not surprising as they spend all their time there.

[The Selfish Gene]

I just drove through a 30mph zone in Brentwood - everyone doing 20mph - so I overtook (que flashing lights)

Then next 40mph, everyone doing 30mph - so I overtook

People on phones, on vapes and generally being st at everything

ho hum - I had fun

[Foss62]

croyde said:

I seem to see the population sticking to the 20 rigidly, even on wide roads, middle of the night with hardly anyone around.

It's like everyone has been lobotomized except me

Most people have at least an inclination to follow the rules (and are content with a speedo reading of under 25 in a 20 limit). Do you also ignore red lights in the middle of the night when you are at a clear junction? Why not (maybe you have erased the lobotomy from memory?)?
It would be interesting to know if there is any overlap between people who go apoplectic about cyclists turning left on red lights at clear junctions and those who rage about drivers complying with 20 limits. I suspect there might be.

[KTMsm]

Foss62 said:

Do you also ignore red lights in the middle of the night when you are at a clear junction?

I do

And at road works if I can see there's no one on the other side of them

It's called common sense - I wish more would try it

[Foss62]

KTMsm said:

Foss62 said:

Do you also ignore red lights in the middle of the night when you are at a clear junction?

I do

And at road works if I can see there's no one on the other side of them

It's called common sense - I wish more would try it

At least you’re honest. I sometimes do it when on my own on a bicycle (no particular desire to wind up the haters - and often bikes don’t trigger the lights anyway). Car or motorbike I don’t do it - I would be too worried about being caught by a camera. This of course is also the answer to 20 limits and why people (roughly) obey them - there isn’t much to be gained by breaking them (in terms of time or enjoyment) and there is definite pain there if you get caught. Whereas the M6 Toll at 85-90 clearly gets you somewhere quicker so there is a balance to the equation.

[theplayingmantis]

The Selfish Gene said:

I just drove through a 30mph zone in Brentwood - everyone doing 20mph - so I overtook (que flashing lights)

Then next 40mph, everyone doing 30mph - so I overtook

People on phones, on vapes and generally being st at everything

ho hum - I had fun

What did you expect in Brentwood?!

[BunkMoreland]

Foss62 said:

That’s just daft. 20 limits are imposed for all sorts of reasons (not primarily safety) and are generally popular with local residents. They are not on ‘main roads’ in any normal sense of the term. Unless 30mph greatly thrills you (maybe your vehicle is a Honda SS50 from 1975?) there seems little to gain from ignoring the 20s and that is why most people observe them. You’d just look like a tool going through our 20 limited village at 30.
I can be very flexible on motorways and NSLs, but I see very little in the way of gains in terms of enjoyment or journey time from breaking 20s and 30s - what’s the point?

I cant speak for your village. I can only speak for London. A London that is currently under the mayorage of someone who hates cars, personal freedom and will wrap this up as "public health" to deflect

Exhibit A



Exhibit B. This addresses you're assertion these are not on Main Roads

https://maps.app.goo.gl/p3o1CPmwcjaGMvLQ9

This road is now a 20mph speed limit. Turn the camera right 90degrees. That road there "Revell Road" is a 30mph. Safety?

Foss62 said:

It would be interesting to know if there is any overlap between people who go apoplectic about cyclists turning left on red lights at clear junctions and those who rage about drivers complying with 20 limits. I suspect there might be.

Turn left on red would be a great thing to introduce here. It works in the States. In fact pedestrian priority works remarkably well in the States. Far better than here.

Cant speak for others, a bike going left on red doesn't bother me. Cars driving at 20 on roads that were perfectly safe at 30 for decades do bother me

PlywoodPascal said:

Most people are prepared to follow a good idea from someone they dislike, nobody wise would ignore everything somebody said just because they dislike them.

You show me the "good idea" in locking down the country and paying everyone, sick and non sick not to work. You show me the good idea in one way supermarkets and queuing round the fking car park Or wearing cheap masks that covid particles wont stop.

Once the initial concern around Covid subsided after a few months and people realised it wasn't the black death that was going to wipe us all out. If you continued to comply, and aren't totally embarrassed 4 years later. Then you're the mindless sheep that 20mph speed limits are for. The "if it saves one life" numpties. The sort of people that if they had been around at the dawn of human flight would have scuppered it with laws.

And before someone chimes in. I'm not anti Health and Safety. If used correctly its very wise. But I fear the days of H&S being used to actually stop H&S problems are long gone. And has become the preserve of those that like to tell others what to do.

Edited by BunkMoreland on Tuesday 18th June 22:24

[Foss62]

BunkMoreland said:

You show me the "good idea" in locking down the country and paying everyone, sick and non sick not to work. You show me the good idea in one way supermarkets and queuing round the fking car park Or wearing cheap masks that covid particles wont stop.

Once the initial concern around Covid subsided after a few months and people realised it wasn't the black death that was going to wipe us all out. If you continued to comply, and aren't totally embarrassed 4 years later. Then you're the mindless sheep that 20mph speed limits are for. The "if it saves one life" numpties. The sort of people that if they had been around at the dawn of human flight would have scuppered it with laws.

And before someone chimes in. I'm not anti Health and Safety. If used correctly its very wise. But I fear the days of H&S being used to actually stop H&S problems are long gone. And has become the preserve of those that like to tell others what to do.

Edited by BunkMoreland on Tuesday 18th June 22:24

I’m not sure about the relevance of the covid stuff? If it’s any help I was in a packed village pub on the last night of ‘freedom’ in September 2020 .
As regards the 20 limits, you are falling into the trap that they are primarily intended for H&S reasons. They are generally not, even if that is stated. They are a political device to diminish the presence and impact of private motor vehicles in an area. Unless you can find a good argument to change them, and get local political support to do so, then you are just baying at the moon. Every road we drive on in the UK (with the exception at certain times on the IOM) has speed limits and they are what they are on the day. Most people at least pay lip service to obeying whatever is on the signs and generally speaking it’s a reasonable strategy.