Your car needs discs and pads sir...
Discussion
otolith said:
The trick is not to use them very much, which is what EVs tend to do - they use regenerative braking instead, which instead of getting rid of the energy as heat from the brake discs and pads (at the same time wearing them out), uses the drive motors as generators to harvest it and put it back in the battery.
The discs go rusty and the brakes "dead" feeling as the pads stick if you don't use 'em, so you're often caught either way.I had it on a Merc I used for work, which was mainly long motorway trips. It was on a service contract and I'd reported the brakes as juddering. Dealer said it really could do with new discs as they were so rusty on the backs but they could see they were barely worn so they assumed they'd been recently changed so MB's Maintenance wouldn't authorise them. They were gobsmacked when I said they were the originals.
paradigital said:
Had the exact same thing last week, only they also wanted to throw in a cambelt change at the same time because “they had no evidence it had been done”.
The problem was that only two weeks (and 200 miles) previously, they had the car in for said cambelt, and provided the cursory healthcheck and associated video, proclaiming that the discs and pads were in a great condition.
When I questioned them over the “abnormalities” in their service records and their inability to check brakes properly, they tried to convince me that I was being petty and should have just gone along with their suggestions.
Sufficed to say, I’m not taking the car there again, which inevitably means a much longer round trip to the next closest main dealer.
This is superbThe problem was that only two weeks (and 200 miles) previously, they had the car in for said cambelt, and provided the cursory healthcheck and associated video, proclaiming that the discs and pads were in a great condition.
When I questioned them over the “abnormalities” in their service records and their inability to check brakes properly, they tried to convince me that I was being petty and should have just gone along with their suggestions.
Sufficed to say, I’m not taking the car there again, which inevitably means a much longer round trip to the next closest main dealer.
I really don't want to go into bat for dealers, but WHEN is the right point to tell the customer their brakes might need doing?
I posted earlier about my pad wear warning light coming on at about 50% wear(OK maybe it was 60%).
If a dealer had given me those worn pads back after fitting new pads, I would have been less than pleased.
And how does a dealer know how quick each individual customer gets through pads? If you have to return to the dealer 3 months after having a service, some customers are going to be pissed off and ask why the pads weren't changed then, while other customers might get another 2 years out of the pads.
With something as safety critical as brakes, there is a burden on the dealer/tech to err on the side of safety in case it comes back to bite them later.
All they can really do is advise that the pads have x mm remaining and leave it up to the customer to decide what to do.
I posted earlier about my pad wear warning light coming on at about 50% wear(OK maybe it was 60%).
If a dealer had given me those worn pads back after fitting new pads, I would have been less than pleased.
And how does a dealer know how quick each individual customer gets through pads? If you have to return to the dealer 3 months after having a service, some customers are going to be pissed off and ask why the pads weren't changed then, while other customers might get another 2 years out of the pads.
With something as safety critical as brakes, there is a burden on the dealer/tech to err on the side of safety in case it comes back to bite them later.
All they can really do is advise that the pads have x mm remaining and leave it up to the customer to decide what to do.
Shout out to Lexus Guildford who were always great. Mine needed tracking doing and they had a fixed price 4 wheel alignment charge of about £50 or so including collection and drop off.
Great, booked in just for alignment (front tyres were wearing on edges) and got the phone call couple of hours later to say it’s done, and 2 new front tyres fitted @ £120 each!
‘But I never asked you to change tyres!’
‘Ah. OK, well we’ll take them off the bill’
‘Erm, well who pays for them? Or do you fit the old ones back on?’
‘No, we’ll have to pay for them. We can’t ask you to pay for them if you didn’t ask for them’
In the end I said that isn’t fair on them, could we agree to pay the price I was going to pay elsewhere £75 a tyre. Deal done.
Credit where credit is due never had any issues with them and could trust them. Returned a few times for general servicing etc.
I did read (on here probably) about someone who had a company car, that was ‘maintained’ under a contract with a fast fit chain.
He took his in for a puncture repair or something and they said it needed new shocks. So he said go ahead.
They then needed him to sign the receipt for the new shocks and he refused saying they should be under guarantee as they’d only been replaced a few months ago.
‘Why didn’t you tell us?’
‘Well you told me they needed replacing….’
Great, booked in just for alignment (front tyres were wearing on edges) and got the phone call couple of hours later to say it’s done, and 2 new front tyres fitted @ £120 each!
‘But I never asked you to change tyres!’
‘Ah. OK, well we’ll take them off the bill’
‘Erm, well who pays for them? Or do you fit the old ones back on?’
‘No, we’ll have to pay for them. We can’t ask you to pay for them if you didn’t ask for them’
In the end I said that isn’t fair on them, could we agree to pay the price I was going to pay elsewhere £75 a tyre. Deal done.
Credit where credit is due never had any issues with them and could trust them. Returned a few times for general servicing etc.
I did read (on here probably) about someone who had a company car, that was ‘maintained’ under a contract with a fast fit chain.
He took his in for a puncture repair or something and they said it needed new shocks. So he said go ahead.
They then needed him to sign the receipt for the new shocks and he refused saying they should be under guarantee as they’d only been replaced a few months ago.
‘Why didn’t you tell us?’
‘Well you told me they needed replacing….’
A couple of years ago now as it's just pre-Covid
Mercedes E Class Cab on a service plan with the main dealer (it was about 8 years old at the time).
Advised urgent all round discs and pads, which were possible given its age/mileage.
Had someone I know look at it who said discs were fine, front pads low ish and rears fine.
I elected to have all the pads changed (at 5% of the cost of the main dealer by a friend) and it went back for more services before I sold it and the discs were never an advisory.
Mercedes E Class Cab on a service plan with the main dealer (it was about 8 years old at the time).
Advised urgent all round discs and pads, which were possible given its age/mileage.
Had someone I know look at it who said discs were fine, front pads low ish and rears fine.
I elected to have all the pads changed (at 5% of the cost of the main dealer by a friend) and it went back for more services before I sold it and the discs were never an advisory.
ARHarh said:
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
ARHarh said:
My neighbour is like this. He asked me about noises from his brakes on his old Peugeot. I had a quick look and it looked to need new disc's and pads. I said "we can get the bits and I will do it for you, I owe you a favour". He knows I work on cars a lot and brakes will be easy for me. He said "No thanks, I will take it to the dealer as at least I know it done properly then". Never did ask him how much that cost, but guess it was more than £60.
f
king hell.. Are you known as a bit of a bodger on your street then? How rude!Register1 said:
Pommy said:
Cold said:
To counter some of the gloom, earlier on this week we had a call from the local Land Rover dealer to say that my daughter's Evoque didn't require the cooler assembly which they had ordered in after all and that on closer inspection the leak would be fixed simply with a gasket/O ring kit.
Lots of ££ saved.
It's a Land Rover, they know youll be back Lots of ££ saved.
I feel incredibly fortunate to have a trustworthy garage less than 10 miles from my house.
I have been using them for 25+ years and a lot of the staff are the same today as back at the start.
Just today I picked up my 41 year old Mercedes from a full brake inspection front and rear, they had it in over 2 nights to suit me and didn't even give me a bill.
I did give the guy who did it £10 and the guy who runs the place £20 and 6 boxes of Jaffa Cakes for his son, but they don't expect anything. I often take in biscuits and always take the time to go and say hello to each of them and take a genuine interest.
They charge me for big jobs where actual parts are needed of course, but I trust them 100% and they have been friends for many years now.
When we thought about moving out of the area some years ago, it was genuinely one of my top 3 concerns that I would have to either travel back, or find a new garage.
I have been using them for 25+ years and a lot of the staff are the same today as back at the start.
Just today I picked up my 41 year old Mercedes from a full brake inspection front and rear, they had it in over 2 nights to suit me and didn't even give me a bill.
I did give the guy who did it £10 and the guy who runs the place £20 and 6 boxes of Jaffa Cakes for his son, but they don't expect anything. I often take in biscuits and always take the time to go and say hello to each of them and take a genuine interest.
They charge me for big jobs where actual parts are needed of course, but I trust them 100% and they have been friends for many years now.
When we thought about moving out of the area some years ago, it was genuinely one of my top 3 concerns that I would have to either travel back, or find a new garage.
BOR said:
I really don't want to go into bat for dealers, but WHEN is the right point to tell the customer their brakes might need doing?
I posted earlier about my pad wear warning light coming on at about 50% wear(OK maybe it was 60%).
If a dealer had given me those worn pads back after fitting new pads, I would have been less than pleased.
And how does a dealer know how quick each individual customer gets through pads? If you have to return to the dealer 3 months after having a service, some customers are going to be pissed off and ask why the pads weren't changed then, while other customers might get another 2 years out of the pads.
With something as safety critical as brakes, there is a burden on the dealer/tech to err on the side of safety in case it comes back to bite them later.
All they can really do is advise that the pads have x mm remaining and leave it up to the customer to decide what to do.
I have a works van, new every three years.I posted earlier about my pad wear warning light coming on at about 50% wear(OK maybe it was 60%).
If a dealer had given me those worn pads back after fitting new pads, I would have been less than pleased.
And how does a dealer know how quick each individual customer gets through pads? If you have to return to the dealer 3 months after having a service, some customers are going to be pissed off and ask why the pads weren't changed then, while other customers might get another 2 years out of the pads.
With something as safety critical as brakes, there is a burden on the dealer/tech to err on the side of safety in case it comes back to bite them later.
All they can really do is advise that the pads have x mm remaining and leave it up to the customer to decide what to do.
It goes for a service after 12 months, and they always put a pair of new front tyres, and new front pads, regardless.
They do this because they wont last until the next service in another 12 months time.
It does get a bit thrashed.
Edited by Register1 on Friday 19th May 19:31
Stu78 said:
If it was in warranty then things like filters would be Merc, oil definitely not, of course it was to spec but didn't come out of the lovely Merc bottles. You can argue it doesn't matter so long as it meets spec but when you're paying a whacking price for main dealer servicing you'd expect everything to Merc. Out of warranty, they did a service scheme, cant remember what it was called but it implied all Merc parts but didn't actually specify they were. They wasn't, hence the visit from local car factors every day. As for used vehicles, I'd put a car in for prep and things like tyres would be cheap brands, a customer brings a car in and the new tyres that would be sold what Mercedes specify at an inflated price as the staff had bonuses based on tyre sales.
This was twenty years ago and the owners lost the franchise. Can't think why.
Interesting, I know we had to use genuine oil and yes agree on the tyre sales This was twenty years ago and the owners lost the franchise. Can't think why.
wpa1975 said:
Interesting, I know we had to use genuine oil and yes agree on the tyre sales
Think you said you were at a VAG dealer - so what's 'genuine oil'? It's not like they make the stuff.I've had work done at various VW and SEAT dealers over 20 years and it's always been an oil company name on the invoice, although it's ofen not the right spec and the service advisor waves it away and says that's just what's in the system but the technician will have use the correct oil.
As a customer you have absolutely no idea. A SEAT dealer recently insisted they use different oil for fixed interval and longlife - SEAT UK said it should be the same VW508 0W20 for emissions reasons. I bet the dealer put 5W30 in.
Genuine oil is oil that has been ‘blended’ to suit the OEM requirements for that engine. Normally added in the factory. Shell are unusual in that they will blend their oil to fit an OEM spec and get approval from the OEM as meeting the correct specifications. VW did use Quantum oil, however it gets slightly more complicated because dealers often have their own relationships with oil companies and have a bulk supply agreement for the dealer group that covers all brands. So you could have a dealer using Pertronas oil for BMW servicing. Finally any warranty job that requires oil will have to use the oil recommended and supplied by the OeM or else the dealer won’t get paid for it.
If it helps RRp for oil is around £20 per litre, but they can buy it in bulk for a couple of quid per litre. In short bring your own oil.
If it helps RRp for oil is around £20 per litre, but they can buy it in bulk for a couple of quid per litre. In short bring your own oil.
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
Genuine oil is oil that has been ‘blended’ to suit the OEM requirements for that engine. Normally added in the factory. Shell are unusual in that they will blend their oil to fit an OEM spec and get approval from the OEM as meeting the correct specifications. VW did use Quantum oil, however it gets slightly more complicated because dealers often have their own relationships with oil companies and have a bulk supply agreement for the dealer group that covers all brands. So you could have a dealer using Pertronas oil for BMW servicing. Finally any warranty job that requires oil will have to use the oil recommended and supplied by the OeM or else the dealer won’t get paid for it.
If it helps RRp for oil is around £20 per litre, but they can buy it in bulk for a couple of quid per litre. In short bring your own oil.
Quantum oil used to be supplied direct by Fuchs lubricants not sure if different now, they also supplied coolant, antifreeze and even the screenwash.If it helps RRp for oil is around £20 per litre, but they can buy it in bulk for a couple of quid per litre. In short bring your own oil.
Also worth remembering for warranty they can request an oil sample if required.
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
Genuine oil is oil that has been ‘blended’ to suit the OEM requirements for that engine. Normally added in the factory. Shell are unusual in that they will blend their oil to fit an OEM spec and get approval from the OEM as meeting the correct specifications. VW did use Quantum oil, however it gets slightly more complicated because dealers often have their own relationships with oil companies and have a bulk supply agreement for the dealer group that covers all brands. So you could have a dealer using Pertronas oil for BMW servicing. Finally any warranty job that requires oil will have to use the oil recommended and supplied by the OeM or else the dealer won’t get paid for it.
Sorry, but that reads like nonsense."Genuine oil is oil that has been ‘blended’ to suit the OEM requirements" - that's just oil from any old oil company where they've paid for the OEMs approval. With VW50x.xx approval the oil carries a chemical marker so analysis can confirm it's the correct type. There's a range of suppliers, it's certainly not limited to Shell.
Quantum is a brand that VW use for aftermarket, they don't make anything.
And it you want MB 229.xx spec oil there's a huge list of suppliers.
There is a simple answer to the problems of dealers trying to see you stuff that people do not need, especially if you or your friend/Mrs don’t feel confident enough to argue with the slimy sales or service people.
Always take your car for MOT before service. An MOT test operates to very strict guidelines and will only give you an advisory or a failure if any component of suspension or brakes is truly failing or in danger of failure.
The other thing I always remember is not to get angry, it’s not personal, they are heavily incentivised by their managers with ‘targets’ etc to try to rip everyone off. They are only trying to do the job for which they are employed. Just politely decline
Always take your car for MOT before service. An MOT test operates to very strict guidelines and will only give you an advisory or a failure if any component of suspension or brakes is truly failing or in danger of failure.
The other thing I always remember is not to get angry, it’s not personal, they are heavily incentivised by their managers with ‘targets’ etc to try to rip everyone off. They are only trying to do the job for which they are employed. Just politely decline
Calinours said:
There is a simple answer to the problems of dealers trying to see you stuff that people do not need, especially if you or your friend/Mrs don’t feel confident enough to argue with the slimy sales or service people.
Always take your car for MOT before service. An MOT test operates to very strict guidelines and will only give you an advisory or a failure if any component of suspension or brakes is truly failing or in danger of failure.
The other thing I always remember is not to get angry, it’s not personal, they are heavily incentivised by their managers with ‘targets’ etc to try to rip everyone off. They are only trying to do the job for which they are employed. Just politely decline
Sensible stuff. Always take your car for MOT before service. An MOT test operates to very strict guidelines and will only give you an advisory or a failure if any component of suspension or brakes is truly failing or in danger of failure.
The other thing I always remember is not to get angry, it’s not personal, they are heavily incentivised by their managers with ‘targets’ etc to try to rip everyone off. They are only trying to do the job for which they are employed. Just politely decline
Calinours said:
There is a simple answer to the problems of dealers trying to see you stuff that people do not need, especially if you or your friend/Mrs don’t feel confident enough to argue with the slimy sales or service people.
Always take your car for MOT before service. An MOT test operates to very strict guidelines and will only give you an advisory or a failure if any component of suspension or brakes is truly failing or in danger of failure.
The other thing I always remember is not to get angry, it’s not personal, they are heavily incentivised by their managers with ‘targets’ etc to try to rip everyone off. They are only trying to do the job for which they are employed. Just politely decline
The local Audi main dealer failed my mum's car on brakes and told her it would be dangerous to drive the 15-mile trip home. My stepdad got involved, some kind of MOT supervisor was called in, and the Audi garage was forced to make a groveling apology.Always take your car for MOT before service. An MOT test operates to very strict guidelines and will only give you an advisory or a failure if any component of suspension or brakes is truly failing or in danger of failure.
The other thing I always remember is not to get angry, it’s not personal, they are heavily incentivised by their managers with ‘targets’ etc to try to rip everyone off. They are only trying to do the job for which they are employed. Just politely decline
The moral is, I suppose, to get an MOT done at a council-run place, because some main dealers will scam your MOT as well as lie when servicing the car.
My Renault Trafic was in the dealers for a recall, they rang to say discs and pads required all round and that they’d be more than happy to carry out the work for circa £800 (they require bearing swaps in the rear discs) I didn’t bother, mileage was 56000, I did eventually swap them at 92000 and the pads still had some life left.
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