RE: 2021 ULEZ expansion | PH Explains
Discussion
As usual like 95% of your articles Matt Bird, you are totally clueless.
How the f
k is a V8 diesel Range Rover L405 suitably ideal London Transport as you put it. Its because of these pathetic 'deezuls' why we have a ULEZ.
Because all the sheep bought them because they can do 1 million miles per gallon. If they sold a coal or asbestos powered engine, they would buy it.
I for one would not miss many of these diesel st boxes that have infiltrated the country for over 30 years. Many of them smoke badly, even worst with the idiots that try to chip them and they give out plumes of smoke.
The one thing I would say about the ULEZ that is unfair it the boundary being North & South Circular. These are stupid boundaries as the North Circular is so much closer to the M25 on the top, compared to the South Circular which is no way as big a road as the North Circular and it does not go as far South to the M25. Even if you look at it from Central London with the Thames, the north takes up such a huge area.
How the f
k is a V8 diesel Range Rover L405 suitably ideal London Transport as you put it. Its because of these pathetic 'deezuls' why we have a ULEZ. Because all the sheep bought them because they can do 1 million miles per gallon. If they sold a coal or asbestos powered engine, they would buy it.
I for one would not miss many of these diesel s
t boxes that have infiltrated the country for over 30 years. Many of them smoke badly, even worst with the idiots that try to chip them and they give out plumes of smoke.The one thing I would say about the ULEZ that is unfair it the boundary being North & South Circular. These are stupid boundaries as the North Circular is so much closer to the M25 on the top, compared to the South Circular which is no way as big a road as the North Circular and it does not go as far South to the M25. Even if you look at it from Central London with the Thames, the north takes up such a huge area.
Arsecati said:
I'm originally from Ealing, but in Dublin last 20 years (where the hell did those 20 years go!). I can't remember ever actually driving my car anywhere near the ULEZ zone, as the traffic was a nightmare, the tube is actually decent and I would generally just use the motorbike if need be. But even motorbikes now must pay it if they don't meet Euro 3 - at the same rates as bleeding cars (and after checking, half of my 2 wheeled toys WOULD fall foul!). Still, I guess I wouldn't have this many bikes if I still lived in London anyway, so my own argument is a bit null and void, and I still have my 71 Bonnie which would be exempt from all (which would be handy, if I didn't have to keep kickstarting the b@$t@rd everywhere I went!!). My natural instinct is to b1tch and moan about it (and I think when saying old Maybachs are ok but fairly modern diesels are not is bloody ludicrous!), but there was/is zero joy in driving a nice car or bike in London as it is, so I'm finding it hard to get that emotional about it. Having said that - damn I'm glad I now have such glorious roads on my doorstep here in the sticks!
Not surprised as many of those mopeds need to be thrown in the bin. They smell badly, kick out so much fumes and this is from 10 year old ones, poorly serviced and knackered engines. Many of these 2 stroke engines kick out unbelievable amount of fumes and worse when modified.Nothing wrong with a Maybach petrol, much cleaner and it does not take an idiot not to notice that compared to a s
tty diesel fartbox.CS Garth said:
numtumfutunch said:
Interesting quote on parking bays
Haven't driven in central London for years but parked up just off High St Ken for lunch last week. Car has diamond cut alloys so left a small margin of error next to kerb.
A warden watched me park then came over and politely told me I was over the drivers side white line marking the bay and he'd have to ticket me. So I had to get scarily snug to the kerb.
Car is 5 series wagon so big but not stupid
Cheers
Many of London’s spaces don’t meet the legal minimum width - I’ve been ticketed and successfully appealed on this basis Haven't driven in central London for years but parked up just off High St Ken for lunch last week. Car has diamond cut alloys so left a small margin of error next to kerb.
A warden watched me park then came over and politely told me I was over the drivers side white line marking the bay and he'd have to ticket me. So I had to get scarily snug to the kerb.
Car is 5 series wagon so big but not stupid
Cheers
jimdollar said:
This is worth a read" There is no climate crisis" by David Craig.
An outstanding contribution to our understanding of the climate crisis
Reviewed in the United Kingdom on 22 June 2021
I highly recommend this book because David Craig has has avoided complex science making the book an easy read. He has concentrated on published information about the climate and the inconsistencies over the years which cannot be explained. In doing so he asks us to question our beliefs about what is really happening to the climate and the validity of the information we are given.
The most important section of the book is the discussion of the net zero carbon policies being adopted by many governments. He explains the huge cost implications for families and businesses and the implications for land use and how this will damage our energy supplies and competitiveness in the world.
No other book I have read on climate change explains the issues in such a clear way. It warns of the dangerous route we are taking and the failure of politicians to protect our interests. All adults and children who think they can save the planet by giving up fossil fuels should read this book.
Not surprised, most of this climate BS is a farce. It is beggars belief that they are saying the country is more polluted now than the smog of the industrial age and the 50's when coal was pumping out all over the placeAn outstanding contribution to our understanding of the climate crisis
Reviewed in the United Kingdom on 22 June 2021
I highly recommend this book because David Craig has has avoided complex science making the book an easy read. He has concentrated on published information about the climate and the inconsistencies over the years which cannot be explained. In doing so he asks us to question our beliefs about what is really happening to the climate and the validity of the information we are given.
The most important section of the book is the discussion of the net zero carbon policies being adopted by many governments. He explains the huge cost implications for families and businesses and the implications for land use and how this will damage our energy supplies and competitiveness in the world.
No other book I have read on climate change explains the issues in such a clear way. It warns of the dangerous route we are taking and the failure of politicians to protect our interests. All adults and children who think they can save the planet by giving up fossil fuels should read this book.
samoht said:
Too many such discussions talk about pollution in general, congestion, global warming etc.
In order to understand what's happening, it's important to appreciate that there is a specific problem with NOx (nitrogen oxide) pollution in high-traffic areas. Too much NOx in the air gives people breathing problems like asthma - not just in the city centre, but in the densely populated and high-traffic inner suburbs too.
For petrol cars, legal NOx limits were reduced to 80 mg/km with Euro 4 in Jan 2006. For diesel cars, they weren't cut to 80 mg/km until Euro 6 in Sept 2015.
Given the above, I think it's understandable that there's a tax on driving cars that aren't guaranteed to keep their NOx emissions below this limit, treating petrols and diesels the same. Unfortunate and inconvenient, but understandable.
It's also understandable that an old thirsty petrol engine (such as the aforementioned Maybach V12, or my AMG C55) is ULEZ-compliant because it met Euro 4, but a relatively recent and economical diesel isn't. Euro standards have *nothing* to do with fuel consumption or CO2 emissions, only the more toxic pollutants.
Worth knowing that manufacturers didn't wait until the last moment to produce Euro4 or Euro6 compatible engines, they were introduced into their range in the years leading up to the enforcement point, so you can find earlier cars that meet the standards. Note that imports from outside the EU are assumed to comply only from the enforcement date of the relevant Euro standard, ie Jan 06 for petrols and Sep 15 for diesels.
Edit: a map is probably the most useful graphic in this discussion
Well said, many of thick thicko's cannot seem to realise that not because a diesel may give a million miles per gallon means its cleaner.In order to understand what's happening, it's important to appreciate that there is a specific problem with NOx (nitrogen oxide) pollution in high-traffic areas. Too much NOx in the air gives people breathing problems like asthma - not just in the city centre, but in the densely populated and high-traffic inner suburbs too.
For petrol cars, legal NOx limits were reduced to 80 mg/km with Euro 4 in Jan 2006. For diesel cars, they weren't cut to 80 mg/km until Euro 6 in Sept 2015.
Given the above, I think it's understandable that there's a tax on driving cars that aren't guaranteed to keep their NOx emissions below this limit, treating petrols and diesels the same. Unfortunate and inconvenient, but understandable.
It's also understandable that an old thirsty petrol engine (such as the aforementioned Maybach V12, or my AMG C55) is ULEZ-compliant because it met Euro 4, but a relatively recent and economical diesel isn't. Euro standards have *nothing* to do with fuel consumption or CO2 emissions, only the more toxic pollutants.
Worth knowing that manufacturers didn't wait until the last moment to produce Euro4 or Euro6 compatible engines, they were introduced into their range in the years leading up to the enforcement point, so you can find earlier cars that meet the standards. Note that imports from outside the EU are assumed to comply only from the enforcement date of the relevant Euro standard, ie Jan 06 for petrols and Sep 15 for diesels.
Edit: a map is probably the most useful graphic in this discussion
Edited by samoht on Saturday 23 October 09:43
braddo said:
McRors said:
It’s not the government it’s the loony mayor, Sadiq Khan who’s responsible for this. He hates cars and has blocked off roads and caused mayhem in London. He’s an idiot.
Wrong.The cities are mandated by government to clean up air pollution.
The Leaper said:
howardhughes said:
The bottom line is the Government hates motorists. It's a simple as that.
Not introduced by the government. It has been introduced by the Lord Mayor of London. Both of these love cars because of the tax and charges they get from them, all added to their general finances.R.
Escort Si-130 said:
...
The one thing I would say about the ULEZ that is unfair it the boundary being North & South Circular. These are stupid boundaries as the North Circular is so much closer to the M25 on the top, compared to the South Circular which is no way as big a road as the North Circular and it does not go as far South to the M25. Even if you look at it from Central London with the Thames, the north takes up such a huge area.
"Unfair"? Makes more sense if you look at the NOX pollution map.The one thing I would say about the ULEZ that is unfair it the boundary being North & South Circular. These are stupid boundaries as the North Circular is so much closer to the M25 on the top, compared to the South Circular which is no way as big a road as the North Circular and it does not go as far South to the M25. Even if you look at it from Central London with the Thames, the north takes up such a huge area.
https://www.london.gov.uk/what-we-do/environment/p...
Schwarzi666 said:
braddo said:
Wrong.
The cities are mandated by government to clean up air pollution.
Yes but BoJo started this already during his time as mayor and looking ahead with his green plans cities will be forced by the government eventuell The cities are mandated by government to clean up air pollution.
JD2329 said:
One of the reasons there are so many older diesel vehicles on the road is due to previous Governments enouraging the take up of such vehicles.
Further taxing the use of such assets that people already own, bought and paid for with earnings they have already been taxed on, is immoral.
It hurts those on lower incomes the most, who are more likely to drive older cars.
You would have imagined a socialist mayor would have been concerned about that.
Unfortunately, from the moment the Congestion charge was introduced in 2003, it was inevitable there would be calls to continually extend its scope and make it more expensive.
Once the door is ajar, authorities will keep pushing. Unless more people oppose it, that will not change.
And imagine the joke of the congestion charge, it hardly even reduced congestion, no wonder the Americans refused to pay it. It is also a joke having the congestion charge going to midnight, seriously??? It makes a mockery of the word.Further taxing the use of such assets that people already own, bought and paid for with earnings they have already been taxed on, is immoral.
It hurts those on lower incomes the most, who are more likely to drive older cars.
You would have imagined a socialist mayor would have been concerned about that.
Unfortunately, from the moment the Congestion charge was introduced in 2003, it was inevitable there would be calls to continually extend its scope and make it more expensive.
Once the door is ajar, authorities will keep pushing. Unless more people oppose it, that will not change.
croyde said:
About 15 years ago you could park for free in my old area in SW London.
It was never a problem finding space but the council convinced people that others were parking their cars in our streets due to the station a full mile away.
They said a small charge to administrate it.
Started at £40 a year, it's now £190 a year and draconianally enforced.
Friends, visitors even myself have paid fines as well as the yearly charge.
I wrote to my MP about it. He replied that the charges and fines helped lower the council tax.
That MP
Khaaaaaannnnnnnnn!
Khhhhaaaaannnnnnnnn!
Kirk mode off!
Too many selfish fools agreed to these pathetic CPZ's thinking that it was their own path and expected they had a God given right to park outside thier door. but never saw anything wrong to go and visit someone else and park in their area for free. Now many of these councils have these stupid CPZ's mainly Labour and the same people that supported them are complaining about the cost, serves them right.It was never a problem finding space but the council convinced people that others were parking their cars in our streets due to the station a full mile away.
They said a small charge to administrate it.
Started at £40 a year, it's now £190 a year and draconianally enforced.
Friends, visitors even myself have paid fines as well as the yearly charge.
I wrote to my MP about it. He replied that the charges and fines helped lower the council tax.
That MP
Khaaaaaannnnnnnnn!
Khhhhaaaaannnnnnnnn!
Kirk mode off!
Fools should have seen it was a backdoor tax; they should up to to £1000 a year.
CheesecakeRunner said:
howardhughes said:
The bottom line is the Government hates motorists. It's a simple as that.
Bottom line is London is a polluted hole and vehicles are the main reason for it. fblm said:
big_rob_sydney said:
I might have missed it, but I'm kind of surprised no one has mentioned this yet... when we all go EV, surely this discussion about air quality will become moot?
Then it will become about congestion again. Once they have another stream of revenue councils they aren't going to let go of it; those local authority pension pots don't stuff themselves full you know!We would probably be fined for farting next.
ChrisCh86 said:
I live just outside of the south circular and both cars are Euro 6 petrols.
I therefore think that this is an excellent idea, particularly for my lungs (and for the lungs of my children) when I / they go into central London.
This kind of action is inevitable everywhere eventually - regardless of which party or politician is in charge!
Gullable, the wind would still blow emissions from outside of London into London, so would not make much difference.I therefore think that this is an excellent idea, particularly for my lungs (and for the lungs of my children) when I / they go into central London.
This kind of action is inevitable everywhere eventually - regardless of which party or politician is in charge!
Escort Si-130 said:
jimdollar said:
This is worth a read" There is no climate crisis" by David Craig.
An outstanding contribution to our understanding of the climate crisis
Reviewed in the United Kingdom on 22 June 2021
I highly recommend this book because David Craig has has avoided complex science making the book an easy read. He has concentrated on published information about the climate and the inconsistencies over the years which cannot be explained. In doing so he asks us to question our beliefs about what is really happening to the climate and the validity of the information we are given.
The most important section of the book is the discussion of the net zero carbon policies being adopted by many governments. He explains the huge cost implications for families and businesses and the implications for land use and how this will damage our energy supplies and competitiveness in the world.
No other book I have read on climate change explains the issues in such a clear way. It warns of the dangerous route we are taking and the failure of politicians to protect our interests. All adults and children who think they can save the planet by giving up fossil fuels should read this book.
Not surprised, most of this climate BS is a farce. It is beggars belief that they are saying the country is more polluted now than the smog of the industrial age and the 50's when coal was pumping out all over the placeAn outstanding contribution to our understanding of the climate crisis
Reviewed in the United Kingdom on 22 June 2021
I highly recommend this book because David Craig has has avoided complex science making the book an easy read. He has concentrated on published information about the climate and the inconsistencies over the years which cannot be explained. In doing so he asks us to question our beliefs about what is really happening to the climate and the validity of the information we are given.
The most important section of the book is the discussion of the net zero carbon policies being adopted by many governments. He explains the huge cost implications for families and businesses and the implications for land use and how this will damage our energy supplies and competitiveness in the world.
No other book I have read on climate change explains the issues in such a clear way. It warns of the dangerous route we are taking and the failure of politicians to protect our interests. All adults and children who think they can save the planet by giving up fossil fuels should read this book.
georgeyboy12345 said:
I’m surprised the ULEZ is as small as what it is, but now understand from some posts made on here that this is to do with TfL’s area of control.
I’m sure that there will be legislation soon to expand it to encompass the whole area around the M25.
The current ULEZ measures about 11 miles north to south and 15 miles east to west. Look at Greater Manchester’s impending CAZ, that will be about 25 miles north to south and 27 miles east to west; and Greater Manchester is a much smaller city than Greater London. That said, Manchester’s CAZ is much less punitive to normal people, as it will only apply to commercial vehicles such as taxis, private hire, vans, buses, coaches and lorries.
What makes you think, they would not do that to cars. London's LEZ zone which applies to buses, coaches, lorries is practically the Greater London area. It was originally set at euro3, then went to euro 4 and now currently at euro6I’m sure that there will be legislation soon to expand it to encompass the whole area around the M25.
The current ULEZ measures about 11 miles north to south and 15 miles east to west. Look at Greater Manchester’s impending CAZ, that will be about 25 miles north to south and 27 miles east to west; and Greater Manchester is a much smaller city than Greater London. That said, Manchester’s CAZ is much less punitive to normal people, as it will only apply to commercial vehicles such as taxis, private hire, vans, buses, coaches and lorries.
https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/low-emission-zone...
Schwarzi666 said:
CheesecakeRunner said:
Bottom line is London is a polluted hole and vehicles are the main reason for it.
It's not actually that easy first you have to see that on of the most polluted streets in the UK is Oxford Street which is mostly closed for regular traffic and the vehicles there are mainly busses and black cabs.Then also road layout changes over the past 5 years or so, caused likely more jams and pollution.
For example when you drive on embankment direction big ben/ house of parliament you used to be able to turn left onto Westminster bridge, now you cannot. So if you need to go there you will have to drive all the way around parliament Square encountering an extra 6 or so traffic lights and well traffic.
ZX10R NIN said:
Schwarzi666 said:
CheesecakeRunner said:
Bottom line is London is a polluted hole and vehicles are the main reason for it.
It's not actually that easy first you have to see that on of the most polluted streets in the UK is Oxford Street which is mostly closed for regular traffic and the vehicles there are mainly busses and black cabs.Then also road layout changes over the past 5 years or so, caused likely more jams and pollution.
For example when you drive on embankment direction big ben/ house of parliament you used to be able to turn left onto Westminster bridge, now you cannot. So if you need to go there you will have to drive all the way around parliament Square encountering an extra 6 or so traffic lights and well traffic.
Volume wise actual traffic volumes are still down in comparison to before but actual congestion is worse.
another 3 points said:
I abandoned London two years ago even though my vx220 turbo was exempt. When that little hitler mayor finally gets the shove ( from a great height for him, say 3 feet ) would a Tory replacement scrap all this and melt down the cameras to make more electric charging points?
I really miss the noise and banter of a dawn raid PH Tunnel Run, and the late night frolicking of Halloween
bahahaha at 3 feet height. To be honest, it would cost too much to scrap, as they normally do these things on contracts lasting 5-10 yearsI really miss the noise and banter of a dawn raid PH Tunnel Run, and the late night frolicking of Halloween
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