RE: 2024 Lotus Emeya | PH Review
Discussion
GT9 said:
big_rob_sydney said:
That is the worst looking Lotus I have ever seen. How on earth did this make it past the review stage?
Probably by not using a bunch of terminally hacked-off blokes who walk around the house in string-back gloves to review it.b
ds.big_rob_sydney said:
GT9 said:
big_rob_sydney said:
That is the worst looking Lotus I have ever seen. How on earth did this make it past the review stage?
Probably by not using a bunch of terminally hacked-off blokes who walk around the house in string-back gloves to review it.b
ds.big_rob_sydney said:
Apologies, but I've read this a few times now, and still have no idea what you're saying. Please educate me.
PH is frequented by many posters who find this whole era of hybridisation and electrification a threat and are permanently pissed off about it. They don't want to know or have no interest in understanding why the design process for cars that have any form of plug-in capability results in a substantially different car to what came before, and in particular, some posters cannot get past kerb weight, they worship at the altar of kerb weight and no other.They long for the days of 800 kg cars, string back gloves, insects in their teeth, seatbelts being a luxury, hand wound windows, atrocious aerodynamics, you get the picture.
I was satirically describing why it's understandable that Lotus did not use such a particular cross-section of society to review the car, rather their focus group most probably included more progressive minds, and in a particular, people who are likely to be actual prospective buyers.
I then admonished Lotus for doing that, as a last bit of dry humour/non-humour, take your pick.
My post was not directed at any individual, rather the collective group that appear on all these threads to reaffirm their belief that all hybrids and EVs are simply s
t.GT9 said:
I was satirically describing why it's understandable that Lotus did not use such a particular cross-section of society to review the car, rather their focus group most probably included more progressive minds, and in a particular, people who are likely to be actual prospective buyers.
I then admonished Lotus for doing that, as a last bit of dry humour/non-humour, take your pick.
My post was not directed at any individual, rather the collective group that appear on all these threads to reaffirm their belief that all hybrids and EVs are simply st.
If this is what progressive minds have to offer we should be worried. I found the general mood towards the 5N, Renault 5, and new Taycan pretty positive on here. Yes, there are a few outliers but that’s always the case. Lotus should be held to account on the merits of the vehicle, and I think a fair few of us are struggling to find any, this seems like a poor attempt at a ‘me-too’ Taycan as far as I can see. I then admonished Lotus for doing that, as a last bit of dry humour/non-humour, take your pick.
My post was not directed at any individual, rather the collective group that appear on all these threads to reaffirm their belief that all hybrids and EVs are simply s
t.Billy_Whizzzz said:
Having seen this in the metal (when I probably shouldn't have!), it doesn't look like a Stinger.It is very wide though, perhaps more than I'd appreciate down a B-Road, but then I'd probably say the same about a BMW M5, which would intuitively feel like an ICE equivalent.
I have a similar moan about this as I do about the Ioniq 5N: I'm generally a fan but I'd love to see a 4/5 scaled down version of this.
JAMSXR said:
If this is what progressive minds have to offer we should be worried. I found the general mood towards the 5N, Renault 5, and new Taycan pretty positive on here. Yes, there are a few outliers but that’s always the case. Lotus should be held to account on the merits of the vehicle, and I think a fair few of us are struggling to find any, this seems like a poor attempt at a ‘me-too’ Taycan as far as I can see.
The car itself is fine. There is a core of PHers for whom 'weight' has been chosen as a proxy but the reality is that batteries are still heavy. The problem with the car is the price tag. There is simply no way that it's a £100k+ vehicle. There isn't anything about it that suggests that kind of worth. It has the standard 'Aldi' TV screen and wipe down interior. The flat backseats of a budget car. No signs of any kind of valuable tech and it's just a normal skateboard with low cost panels. Add to this that it is knocked out in the cheapest car factories on the planet and carries a badge that has spent the last 25 years screaming and shouting about its cheapness and what stares me in the face is a very hopeful price tag that clearly has a huge funding premium buried in there so they can make exciting interest rate offers, dealer contributions and still keep all the BIK plus more to themselves.
The reality is that this car appears to absolute reek of Colin Chapman and everything that he stood for.
The Geely Galaxy G8 starts at £20k by comparison.
DonkeyApple said:
JAMSXR said:
If this is what progressive minds have to offer we should be worried. I found the general mood towards the 5N, Renault 5, and new Taycan pretty positive on here. Yes, there are a few outliers but that’s always the case. Lotus should be held to account on the merits of the vehicle, and I think a fair few of us are struggling to find any, this seems like a poor attempt at a ‘me-too’ Taycan as far as I can see.
The car itself is fine. There is a core of PHers for whom 'weight' has been chosen as a proxy but the reality is that batteries are still heavy. The problem with the car is the price tag. There is simply no way that it's a £100k+ vehicle. There isn't anything about it that suggests that kind of worth. It has the standard 'Aldi' TV screen and wipe down interior. The flat backseats of a budget car. No signs of any kind of valuable tech and it's just a normal skateboard with low cost panels. Add to this that it is knocked out in the cheapest car factories on the planet and carries a badge that has spent the last 25 years screaming and shouting about its cheapness and what stares me in the face is a very hopeful price tag that clearly has a huge funding premium buried in there so they can make exciting interest rate offers, dealer contributions and still keep all the BIK plus more to themselves.
The reality is that this car appears to absolute reek of Colin Chapman and everything that he stood for.
The Geely Galaxy G8 starts at £20k by comparison.
[Img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-eqtOYXYAAFiY1.jpg:large[/thumb]
[Img]https://www.electrive.com/media/2024/01/geely-galaxy-e1704709805952.jpg.webp[/thumb]
[Img]https://carnewschina.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Slide-16_9-122-98.jpg[/thumb]
[Img]https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:1400/1*bkv8s3BaVmAP7fLl0MULZw.png[/thumb]
I don't see any redeeming features about this Lotus whatsoever.
£100k is a lot to sink into a punt.
911Spanker said:
Totally agree. The Geely is probably the better car too.
I don't see any redeeming features about this Lotus whatsoever.
£100k is a lot to sink into a punt.
Even the Zeekr sister car which is supposed to be Geely's premium and performance EV brand starts in China at £30k and while the Lotus looks nicer on the outside the Zeekr interior (built around a structure that looks eerily familiar) actually looks more expensive. I don't see any redeeming features about this Lotus whatsoever.
£100k is a lot to sink into a punt.
I'm just failing to get my head around Lotus' strategy of loading so much money on top of these cars but we are at peak Giffen and with so few large consumers having a base comprehension of quality or value, just a desire to rent what is on the front of magazines for a period until the next thing on a new cover it probably makes perfect sense to Geely. They know their market and this will be aimed at new money markets where quality and worth are valued not to stand in the way of high price, loud image and of the moment. For the U.K. it's probably going to do best in Essex, Cheshire and some Northern town centres where the most people who fear value for money and see it as a social weakness live?
And I'm sure it will do well in Asia and the US where huge numbers of consumers shop by wine list metrics.
Price this where stamped out Chinese wagons belong like Tesla, BYD, Geely, Zeekr etc and it would be fantastic but the quality of product or value just isn't there to support the tag they've put on it. It's strictly for the man bangle fans.
DonkeyApple said:
Even the Zeekr sister car which is supposed to be Geely's premium and performance EV brand starts in China at £30k and while the Lotus looks nicer on the outside the Zeekr interior (built around a structure that looks eerily familiar) actually looks more expensive.
Whilst I agree this Lotus is on the expensive side - cars are not priced the same globallyAll vehicles in China are cheaper than in the UK, due to lower earning potential and the additional taxes applied here - VAT @ 20%, and Import Duty @ 10%
Businesses price their products in regional markets, based on the price it will sell, to meet the sales volume targets they have for a specific region..
The sale price is not directly related to the sum of the value of the materials, R&D, manufacturing, plus a global standard xx% profit uplift
If I’m not mistaken the lease deals on the Eletre are quite good at the moment and the same will surely apply to this car. So not sure it’s actually that expensive. If you can get a decent deal, I’m sure it changes everything. I think it’s a nice looking car personally and can do well at the right price. But at a premium over the Taycan, not a hope. Even if I think the Emeya looks much better.
SDK said:
DonkeyApple said:
Even the Zeekr sister car which is supposed to be Geely's premium and performance EV brand starts in China at £30k and while the Lotus looks nicer on the outside the Zeekr interior (built around a structure that looks eerily familiar) actually looks more expensive.
Whilst I agree this Lotus is on the expensive side - cars are not priced the same globallyAll vehicles in China are cheaper than in the UK, due to lower earning potential and the additional taxes applied here - VAT @ 20%, and Import Duty @ 10%
Businesses price their products in regional markets, based on the price it will sell, to meet the sales volume targets they have for a specific region..
The sale price is not directly related to the sum of the value of the materials, R&D, manufacturing, plus a global standard xx% profit uplift
And absolutely, they will price per market.
The basic observation that is being made isn't about that but rather merely that the badge that Geely have chosen to stick on to one of their inexpensive Chinese cars is having to do very serious heavy lifting which is difficult as that brand since the 90s has been banging on endlessly about adding cheapness.
It's just my personal opinion that faced with two big EV GTs with the same price tag such as the Taycan and the Emeya one finds if very difficult to see what all the money being asked for the Emeya is for other than grotesque mark-up to be associated with what's been a loser brand for the whole of this century?
JAMSXR said:
If this is what progressive minds have to offer we should be worried. I found the general mood towards the 5N, Renault 5, and new Taycan pretty positive on here. Yes, there are a few outliers but that’s always the case. Lotus should be held to account on the merits of the vehicle, and I think a fair few of us are struggling to find any, this seems like a poor attempt at a ‘me-too’ Taycan as far as I can see.
I'd say that expecting 'new' Lotus to forge a path any different to Porsche is going to lead to disappointment.Can the Lotus variants compete though?
Porsche have quite the head start when it comes to SUVs and 4 seater GTs, as well as electrification.
As for sports cars, let's wait and see.
I'm not expecting the Type 135 to blow the electro-cayster into the weeds, but it might just offer something different in its appeal that engenders a following from those shying away from Porsche.
It can't be lost on anyone that 'new' Lotus has its sights firmly set on the 30 million new cars sold in China every year.
A new car market almost the same size as our entire passenger car fleet in the UK.
Colin Chapman died over 40 years ago and electric cars are heavy.
They do however offer up some great opportunities to allow us to keep using new cars in a sustainable way.
The global new car market seems to care a lot more about the latter.
Terminator X said:
murphyaj said:
Terminator X said:
Take stated range and times by 0.7 to get realistic range then factor in 80% charging ergo actual range of 151m 
It's ok though as pretty much no one needs more than 10m a day we are told on here.
TX.
Where are you getting 0.7 and 80% from? Really, i am actually asking where those numbers are from, because I they seem very wide of the mark. Especially the 80% charging, what does that refer to?It's ok though as pretty much no one needs more than 10m a day we are told on here.
TX.
What-car did a real-life range test, where they took 12 EVs across a broad spectrum of the market, charged them to full, and drove them as far as they could. The worst was a BYD Atto that managed 83% of its claimed range, the best was an VW ID Buzz that managed 92.5%, with most others being in the high 80s. All were vastly better than the 56% you appear to be implying here.
EV is then generally only charged up to 80% either to protect the battery or because that last 20% takes too long at a public charger so EV's are getting penalized if they try to charge into that zone.
TX.
So yes, if you drive at sustained high speed in cold weather 70% range might not be unrealistic, in the worst-case used by ev-database cars get about 70 to 75%, but that's a sustained cruise at -10 degrees C which is not really an everyday occurance. And if you are going from one fast charger to another 80% is a reasonable point to stop charging. So by that metric those figures are accurate.
However... those figures really are a worst case scenario. That is really the worst charge-to-charge range you are going to get. If doing a long journey you're not going to be starting at 80%, you're going to be starting at 100% since 80% is only important for fast chargers. And it's not like -10 degrees C is common around here. So while you can technically throw those figures out there and claim they are accurate, to do so out of context and pretend that is the realistic range of the car definitely feels like some serious cherry picking to try and make it sound worse than it is.
It is true that if you are hopping from one fast charger to another, and you don't want to wait for a 100% charge, and you are driving at sustained high speed in the very depths of winter, you might be going 150 ish miles between stops. But to categorise that as a realistic maximum range for the car is misleading because it is most certainly capable of a lot more than that in almost all conditions.
This illustrates how hard it is going to be for some manufacturers to survive into the EV era.
For a brand to mean anything it has to stand for something. However, there is nothing in this car’s design or execution to distinguish it as a Lotus. Instead it conforms to the standard upmarket EV approach - a not particularly attractive body, two and a half tonne kerb weight, a large slab of multi function screen seemingly stuck onto the dash and in the Emeya’s case, barely more than 200 miles of reliable range. And a list price approaching £100k.
Of course it goes like stink and handles pretty well. Most EVs at this price point do. But that is it in a nutshell - the Emeya just represents the standard fare, alongside its many competitors.
Whether this is enough to draw in buyers I don’t know. I just hope for Lotus’s sake it is.
For a brand to mean anything it has to stand for something. However, there is nothing in this car’s design or execution to distinguish it as a Lotus. Instead it conforms to the standard upmarket EV approach - a not particularly attractive body, two and a half tonne kerb weight, a large slab of multi function screen seemingly stuck onto the dash and in the Emeya’s case, barely more than 200 miles of reliable range. And a list price approaching £100k.
Of course it goes like stink and handles pretty well. Most EVs at this price point do. But that is it in a nutshell - the Emeya just represents the standard fare, alongside its many competitors.
Whether this is enough to draw in buyers I don’t know. I just hope for Lotus’s sake it is.
DonkeyApple said:
The basic observation that is being made isn't about that but rather merely that the badge that Geely have chosen to stick on to one of their inexpensive Chinese cars is having to do very serious heavy lifting which is difficult as that brand since the 90s has been banging on endlessly about adding cheapness.
I see what you're saying, DA, but the target market won't give a crap, especially in emerging markets. Much will be made of F1 history, luxury and impressing the neighbours. I imagine that most buyers around the world will never have seen our heard of the Eclat, Excel, nor the 90s Elan. A sizable chunk will never have heard of the Esprit, nor the Elise.
Not saying you're wrong, DA, just that the people who buy these won't care. Rightly or wrongly, Chinese industry has a knack for purchasing European brands and repositioning them for a global market. At the other end of the market, look at the global success that MG is now seeing.
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