RE: Electrified son-of-Elise now testing on road
Discussion
Panamax said:
Regrettably UK doesn't have the financial/commercial horsepower to deliver the dreams politicians keep pushing that the country becoming a "world beating" hub for what you might call technical manufacturing.
UK has appropriate research activity in science parks around the major universities but, unlike California, lacks the next step which is major manufacturing plants. The domestic market isn't big enough and many global companies look askance at UK's decision to turn its back on Europe. The politicians' promises of "free trade agreements" here, there and everywhere have come to nothing. There's just too little stability for the huge capital commitments required to build big manufacturing plants and the cost of doing business here is very high compared with the Far East.
20 years ago it would have been difficult to foresee the huge steps forward that have been achieved with phone, laptop and electric car batteries. The next 20 years may see at least as much change again but I don't think it will be led by the UK.
In the middle of research and manufacturing is the larger issue which is that the British just don't have an appetite for venture capital. We are yield obsessed, which is ironic given the rampant social issue of problem gambling. UK has appropriate research activity in science parks around the major universities but, unlike California, lacks the next step which is major manufacturing plants. The domestic market isn't big enough and many global companies look askance at UK's decision to turn its back on Europe. The politicians' promises of "free trade agreements" here, there and everywhere have come to nothing. There's just too little stability for the huge capital commitments required to build big manufacturing plants and the cost of doing business here is very high compared with the Far East.
20 years ago it would have been difficult to foresee the huge steps forward that have been achieved with phone, laptop and electric car batteries. The next 20 years may see at least as much change again but I don't think it will be led by the UK.
Conversely, the US has both a massive VC appetite and gunboat diplomacy to guide Johnny Foreigner to pay up.
But manufacturing is a little bit of a red herring. Britain has understood since the middle of the 20th century that competing with the might of the likes of China or the U.S. is folly that you can never win and we have instead favoured a service economy that can go out round the world and take a clip on everyone else's manufacturing. Want to set up a factory in China then you inevitably end up paying away to British law, accounting or credit firms. Meanwhile, back home we do actually manufacture a vast amount of cheap goods, it's just that they happen to be edible ready meals for fat and lazy people.
Where we can actually be world beating is excess renewal energy generation and export while becoming non dependent on USD and US controlled energy markets.
As for the grants into these research teams, we know that 99% will fail and that private capital won't back them until they either win or have a good enough story to flog to private equity or IPO to the elderly but what is actually being sought is that 'ARM Holdings' that does stumble across something before the others around the world and can be rapidly expanded to being hugely profitable.
Nearly all of these battery research teams will fail spectacularly but if just one stumbles into a technological leap forward then it will more than pay back all the grant gambling. That's the hope. And in the meantime, it pays the salaries of researchers who would otherwise not be in the U.K. most likely.
Panamax said:
Regrettably UK doesn't have the financial/commercial horsepower to deliver the dreams politicians keep pushing that the country becoming a "world beating" hub for what you might call technical manufacturing.
UK has appropriate research activity in science parks around the major universities but, unlike California, lacks the next step which is major manufacturing plants. The domestic market isn't big enough and many global companies look askance at UK's decision to turn its back on Europe. The politicians' promises of "free trade agreements" here, there and everywhere have come to nothing. There's just too little stability for the huge capital commitments required to build big manufacturing plants and the cost of doing business here is very high compared with the Far East.
20 years ago it would have been difficult to foresee the huge steps forward that have been achieved with phone, laptop and electric car batteries. The next 20 years may see at least as much change again but I don't think it will be led by the UK.
In the middle of research and manufacturing is the larger issue which is that the British just don't have an appetite for venture capital. We are yield obsessed, which is ironic given the rampant social issue of problem gambling. UK has appropriate research activity in science parks around the major universities but, unlike California, lacks the next step which is major manufacturing plants. The domestic market isn't big enough and many global companies look askance at UK's decision to turn its back on Europe. The politicians' promises of "free trade agreements" here, there and everywhere have come to nothing. There's just too little stability for the huge capital commitments required to build big manufacturing plants and the cost of doing business here is very high compared with the Far East.
20 years ago it would have been difficult to foresee the huge steps forward that have been achieved with phone, laptop and electric car batteries. The next 20 years may see at least as much change again but I don't think it will be led by the UK.
Conversely, the US has both a massive VC appetite and gunboat diplomacy to guide Johnny Foreigner to pay up.
But manufacturing is a little bit of a red herring. Britain has understood since the middle of the 20th century that competing with the might of the likes of China or the U.S. is folly that you can never win and we have instead favoured a service economy that can go out round the world and take a clip on everyone else's manufacturing. Want to set up a factory in China then you inevitably end up paying away to British law, accounting or credit firms. Meanwhile, back home we do actually manufacture a vast amount of cheap goods, it's just that they happen to be edible ready meals for fat and lazy people.
Where we can actually be world beating is excess renewal energy generation and export while becoming non dependent on USD and US controlled energy markets.
As for the grants into these research teams, we know that 99% will fail and that private capital won't back them until they either win or have a good enough story to flog to private equity or IPO to the elderly but what is actually being sought is that 'ARM Holdings' that does stumble across something before the others around the world and can be rapidly expanded to being hugely profitable.
Nearly all of these battery research teams will fail spectacularly but if just one stumbles into a technological leap forward then it will more than pay back all the grant gambling. That's the hope. And in the meantime, it pays the salaries of researchers who would otherwise not be in the U.K. most likely.
LooneyTunes said:
DonkeyApple said:
what is actually being sought is that 'ARM Holdings' that does stumble across something before the others around the world and can be rapidly expanded to being hugely profitable.
ARM was founded in 1990! More than 30 years to get where they are now.It's a long and well trodden path but as always it tends to break down when local govt have the purse strings as they tend to be rather easy to just rip off, as seen with so many idiotic hydrogen based fee wheezes in recent years.
Personally, I suspect nothing will come of Nyobolt and it'll just run out of grant funding and the researchers move to other teams that have funding bit one of these teams might find something new.
Gordon Murray's company has consumed large portions of Innovate UK's grant fund.
But the difference might be that they seem to have created a viable product out of it. Although their spaceframe platform (I forget its name) doesn't seem to have taken off.
Whether this funding will benefit more than GMA is the real question, though. Perhaps if their two cars are successful and bring steady work to their supply network, then maybe...
But the difference might be that they seem to have created a viable product out of it. Although their spaceframe platform (I forget its name) doesn't seem to have taken off.
Whether this funding will benefit more than GMA is the real question, though. Perhaps if their two cars are successful and bring steady work to their supply network, then maybe...
Charging....rates....how........exciting..........zzzzzzzzz
Strange how they make no efforts to talk about things like performance, 0-60 etc or any other kind of indicator and yet people are prepared to throw themselves at it "I'd have that as my daily!" just due to looks, but it could ride like a milk float.
It literally looks like a sports car and yet all the talk would be better suited to a PCWorld sale.
If its fast charge and lots of other amazing properties also, great, but I'm kind of lost at the direction here - what else does it offer then besides charging as well as mobile phone ?
Strange how they make no efforts to talk about things like performance, 0-60 etc or any other kind of indicator and yet people are prepared to throw themselves at it "I'd have that as my daily!" just due to looks, but it could ride like a milk float.
It literally looks like a sports car and yet all the talk would be better suited to a PCWorld sale.
If its fast charge and lots of other amazing properties also, great, but I'm kind of lost at the direction here - what else does it offer then besides charging as well as mobile phone ?
daytonavrs said:
Charging....rates....how........exciting..........zzzzzzzzz
Strange how they make no efforts to talk about things like performance, 0-60 etc or any other kind of indicator and yet people are prepared to throw themselves at it "I'd have that as my daily!" just due to looks, but it could ride like a milk float.
It literally looks like a sports car and yet all the talk would be better suited to a PCWorld sale.
If its fast charge and lots of other amazing properties also, great, but I'm kind of lost at the direction here - what else does it offer then besides charging as well as mobile phone ?
You may have missed the point of the article Strange how they make no efforts to talk about things like performance, 0-60 etc or any other kind of indicator and yet people are prepared to throw themselves at it "I'd have that as my daily!" just due to looks, but it could ride like a milk float.
It literally looks like a sports car and yet all the talk would be better suited to a PCWorld sale.
If its fast charge and lots of other amazing properties also, great, but I'm kind of lost at the direction here - what else does it offer then besides charging as well as mobile phone ?
No one is making that car and no one is selling it. It's just a PR test bed for a bit of battery tech someone hopes to sell to other firms.
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