RE: 2024 Mazda MX-5 RF vs. Toyota GR86
Discussion
BricktopST205 said:
https://youtu.be/5m9uw-Sdem4?si=_AVt7K8QIkGiQjY5
Was on Yoko Advan 052 which are road legal track tyres. Regardless of what you think about the car it is might impressive for something with just 240BHP.
As for analogue experience the only thing which isn't analogue compared to an old 996 is the rack which is electric as the vast majority of 996's will be electronic throttle. Even the 130i would have been electric steering unless it is an early one. The GR86 is about as analogue as you can get with RWD sports car in 2024. You can turn off everything and it even has an old fashioned hand brake.
The one thing an old 996 or 130i cannot match is the chassis development and aero development of the past 30 years. The GR86 has genuine aero through the front air dams and front wings. It is also pretty much a flat floor too. Then you add things like aluminium roof, boxer engine, aluminium wings and bonnet that all help bring down the centre of gravity.
Just coming back to this, I watched the full video of that lap and most impressive it was too. It had non standard wheels and as you say fairly trick tyres which obviously account for quite a lot of time, but even so I doff my cap to a sub 8 min BTG lap from a 240 BHP n/a car weighing around 1300KG. That said, I seem to remember the Renault Megane 265 Trophy doing an 8:06 way back in 2012 with a slightly superior power to weight ratio, but almost identical straightline performance, so on that basis, not quite such a big leap in 12 years.Was on Yoko Advan 052 which are road legal track tyres. Regardless of what you think about the car it is might impressive for something with just 240BHP.
As for analogue experience the only thing which isn't analogue compared to an old 996 is the rack which is electric as the vast majority of 996's will be electronic throttle. Even the 130i would have been electric steering unless it is an early one. The GR86 is about as analogue as you can get with RWD sports car in 2024. You can turn off everything and it even has an old fashioned hand brake.
The one thing an old 996 or 130i cannot match is the chassis development and aero development of the past 30 years. The GR86 has genuine aero through the front air dams and front wings. It is also pretty much a flat floor too. Then you add things like aluminium roof, boxer engine, aluminium wings and bonnet that all help bring down the centre of gravity.
Edited by BricktopST205 on Thursday 20th June 12:00
BTW I really like the GR86. Whenever I see it or its dad, the GT86 they really shout "buy me". My first car was a Ford Capri MK3 and when I sat in a GT86 years ago I said to my wife, this just feels like a Japanese Capri from the drivers seat, so you don't have to convince me on the merits of your car. I was just really defending the comments of 911Spanker, who seemed to have upset people with his view on why he preferred the older car. I still think older cars provide more feel and there's just nothing you can do about that due to the way modern cars have developed. But I accept the gains in chassis and tyre technology in the last 25 years are huge and on a track newer cars, like for like, will normally easily beat their grandfathers!
911Spanker said:
Maybe my 5 and 7 year old are odd proportioned, I have a weird driving position or we have the wrong car seats but space wasn't great for us and no way would they survive a long car journey with my wife in the front seat as well.
They were far less comfortable than in my 996.
Also the boot isn't great. Bigger than the 911 but you can't get roof bars or a roofbox on the 86 so even things like a kids bike won't fit.
If you can make it work that's great but it wasn't for us.
My solution of buying a driver focused extra car has been a stroke of genius...
We went for a weekend away to Alton towers and took my 5 year old and 16 year old in the GR86 no problem and that was a 2:30 hour drive each way. I am 6ft3 and the missus 5ft8 so not a small family. They were far less comfortable than in my 996.
Also the boot isn't great. Bigger than the 911 but you can't get roof bars or a roofbox on the 86 so even things like a kids bike won't fit.
If you can make it work that's great but it wasn't for us.
My solution of buying a driver focused extra car has been a stroke of genius...
Only negative being relatively low powered was all the extra weight stunted performance a little!
We also fitted overnight luggage for 4 in the boot. Whilst not deep it has a good width to it.
BricktopST205 said:
911Spanker said:
Maybe my 5 and 7 year old are odd proportioned, I have a weird driving position or we have the wrong car seats but space wasn't great for us and no way would they survive a long car journey with my wife in the front seat as well.
They were far less comfortable than in my 996.
Also the boot isn't great. Bigger than the 911 but you can't get roof bars or a roofbox on the 86 so even things like a kids bike won't fit.
If you can make it work that's great but it wasn't for us.
My solution of buying a driver focused extra car has been a stroke of genius...
We went for a weekend away to Alton towers and took my 5 year old and 16 year old in the GR86 no problem and that was a 2:30 hour drive each way. I am 6ft3 and the missus 5ft8 so not a small family. They were far less comfortable than in my 996.
Also the boot isn't great. Bigger than the 911 but you can't get roof bars or a roofbox on the 86 so even things like a kids bike won't fit.
If you can make it work that's great but it wasn't for us.
My solution of buying a driver focused extra car has been a stroke of genius...
Only negative being relatively low powered was all the extra weight stunted performance a little!
We also fitted overnight luggage for 4 in the boot. Whilst not deep it has a good width to it.
I actually test drove a GR86 and an MX-5 RF at the start of the year. I'm single and don't have kids so decided I'd look at treating myself to a car like one of these whilst I can. In the end, I bought neither as it would have to be my daily and they both felt a bit compromised for that, even for a single bloke.
The GR86 was fantastic fun at higher speeds on good roads, and I felt it had exactly the right amount of power for what it is. However, I found it a bit clunky and not particularly comfortable when all I wanted to do was cruise or potter around town (I do now appreciate I should've recalibrated my expectations on that when coming from a hot hatch). The RF felt a lot better ergonomically to me and I imagine would even make the slower and more mundane journeys fun, but the interior did feel a little claustrophobic by the end of the test drive and there really isn't much luggage or storage space at all!
Several months later, though, and I feel like the GR86 is the one that got under my skin the most and I'm half kicking myself for not going for it. If another opportunity presents itself where I can afford to buy one, I probably will.
The GR86 was fantastic fun at higher speeds on good roads, and I felt it had exactly the right amount of power for what it is. However, I found it a bit clunky and not particularly comfortable when all I wanted to do was cruise or potter around town (I do now appreciate I should've recalibrated my expectations on that when coming from a hot hatch). The RF felt a lot better ergonomically to me and I imagine would even make the slower and more mundane journeys fun, but the interior did feel a little claustrophobic by the end of the test drive and there really isn't much luggage or storage space at all!
Several months later, though, and I feel like the GR86 is the one that got under my skin the most and I'm half kicking myself for not going for it. If another opportunity presents itself where I can afford to buy one, I probably will.
Burny16v said:
I actually test drove a GR86 and an MX-5 RF at the start of the year. I'm single and don't have kids so decided I'd look at treating myself to a car like one of these whilst I can. In the end, I bought neither as it would have to be my daily and they both felt a bit compromised for that, even for a single bloke.
The GR86 was fantastic fun at higher speeds on good roads, and I felt it had exactly the right amount of power for what it is. However, I found it a bit clunky and not particularly comfortable when all I wanted to do was cruise or potter around town (I do now appreciate I should've recalibrated my expectations on that when coming from a hot hatch). The RF felt a lot better ergonomically to me and I imagine would even make the slower and more mundane journeys fun, but the interior did feel a little claustrophobic by the end of the test drive and there really isn't much luggage or storage space at all!
Several months later, though, and I feel like the GR86 is the one that got under my skin the most and I'm half kicking myself for not going for it. If another opportunity presents itself where I can afford to buy one, I probably will.
What did you end up buying instead?The GR86 was fantastic fun at higher speeds on good roads, and I felt it had exactly the right amount of power for what it is. However, I found it a bit clunky and not particularly comfortable when all I wanted to do was cruise or potter around town (I do now appreciate I should've recalibrated my expectations on that when coming from a hot hatch). The RF felt a lot better ergonomically to me and I imagine would even make the slower and more mundane journeys fun, but the interior did feel a little claustrophobic by the end of the test drive and there really isn't much luggage or storage space at all!
Several months later, though, and I feel like the GR86 is the one that got under my skin the most and I'm half kicking myself for not going for it. If another opportunity presents itself where I can afford to buy one, I probably will.
BricktopST205 said:
911Spanker said:
Maybe my 5 and 7 year old are odd proportioned, I have a weird driving position or we have the wrong car seats but space wasn't great for us and no way would they survive a long car journey with my wife in the front seat as well.
They were far less comfortable than in my 996.
Also the boot isn't great. Bigger than the 911 but you can't get roof bars or a roofbox on the 86 so even things like a kids bike won't fit.
If you can make it work that's great but it wasn't for us.
My solution of buying a driver focused extra car has been a stroke of genius...
We went for a weekend away to Alton towers and took my 5 year old and 16 year old in the GR86 no problem and that was a 2:30 hour drive each way. I am 6ft3 and the missus 5ft8 so not a small family. They were far less comfortable than in my 996.
Also the boot isn't great. Bigger than the 911 but you can't get roof bars or a roofbox on the 86 so even things like a kids bike won't fit.
If you can make it work that's great but it wasn't for us.
My solution of buying a driver focused extra car has been a stroke of genius...
Only negative being relatively low powered was all the extra weight stunted performance a little!
We also fitted overnight luggage for 4 in the boot. Whilst not deep it has a good width to it.
Your 16 year old won't need a car seat so that saves some weight. What car seat are you using for your 5 year old?
Fair play if you and your family can make it work but I think you are a rare case. Maybe your kids have a high threshold for pain or you for discomfort. Who knows but it was a £30k + punt I didn't want to take. And none of my cars are ornaments.
I don't think a GR is a family car for 99% of people.
As I said before, I had my 911 side by side to the GR and it was the Porsche that was far more usable for us.
Of course it's far better to drive too but that's a different matter entirely.
911Spanker said:
I would love to see a picture of this...
Your 16 year old won't need a car seat so that saves some weight. What car seat are you using for your 5 year old?
Fair play if you and your family can make it work but I think you are a rare case. Maybe your kids have a high threshold for pain or you for discomfort. Who knows but it was a £30k + punt I didn't want to take. And none of my cars are ornaments.
I don't think a GR is a family car for 99% of people.
As I said before, I had my 911 side by side to the GR and it was the Porsche that was far more usable for us.
Of course it's far better to drive too but that's a different matter entirely.
GR86 is not a family car for us either. We have an quick Estate for that. GR86 spends 90% of its time as a single occupancy with us but has that option and versatility when needed. Your 16 year old won't need a car seat so that saves some weight. What car seat are you using for your 5 year old?
Fair play if you and your family can make it work but I think you are a rare case. Maybe your kids have a high threshold for pain or you for discomfort. Who knows but it was a £30k + punt I didn't want to take. And none of my cars are ornaments.
I don't think a GR is a family car for 99% of people.
As I said before, I had my 911 side by side to the GR and it was the Porsche that was far more usable for us.
Of course it's far better to drive too but that's a different matter entirely.
I do agree as a single car it would be off the cards but to say it is completely unpractical is just untrue. If we only had the 1 child we could easily make it work no problem. Legroom is hardly any different to your average ryanair flight!
My son only uses a booster as he is 95% percentile for his age. 1.2 metres at 5 years old!
The issue is with myself driving I have the seat all the way to the back so I would need to compromise having anything behind me which isn't a child. I am 6ft3" but your average 5ft10" man could most likely make do.
Edited by BricktopST205 on Wednesday 3rd July 11:23
BricktopST205 said:
911Spanker said:
I would love to see a picture of this...
Your 16 year old won't need a car seat so that saves some weight. What car seat are you using for your 5 year old?
Fair play if you and your family can make it work but I think you are a rare case. Maybe your kids have a high threshold for pain or you for discomfort. Who knows but it was a £30k + punt I didn't want to take. And none of my cars are ornaments.
I don't think a GR is a family car for 99% of people.
As I said before, I had my 911 side by side to the GR and it was the Porsche that was far more usable for us.
Of course it's far better to drive too but that's a different matter entirely.
GR86 is not a family car for us either. We have an quick Estate for that. GR86 spends 90% of its time as a single occupancy with us but has that option and versatility when needed. Your 16 year old won't need a car seat so that saves some weight. What car seat are you using for your 5 year old?
Fair play if you and your family can make it work but I think you are a rare case. Maybe your kids have a high threshold for pain or you for discomfort. Who knows but it was a £30k + punt I didn't want to take. And none of my cars are ornaments.
I don't think a GR is a family car for 99% of people.
As I said before, I had my 911 side by side to the GR and it was the Porsche that was far more usable for us.
Of course it's far better to drive too but that's a different matter entirely.
I do agree as a single car it would be off the cards but to say it is completely unpractical is just untrue. If we only had the 1 child we could easily make it work no problem. Legroom is hardly any different to your average ryanair flight!
My son only uses a booster as he is 95% percentile for his age. 1.2 metres at 5 years old!
The issue is with myself driving I have the seat all the way to the back so I would need to compromise having anything behind me which isn't a child. I am 6ft3" but your average 5ft10" man could most likely make do.
Edited by BricktopST205 on Wednesday 3rd July 11:23
We battled on for a bit, but in the end we swapped it for something more practical though(a Merc GLC350d, and we now have a GLE400d with 7 seats that we don’t need!).
BricktopST205 said:
911Spanker said:
I would love to see a picture of this...
Your 16 year old won't need a car seat so that saves some weight. What car seat are you using for your 5 year old?
Fair play if you and your family can make it work but I think you are a rare case. Maybe your kids have a high threshold for pain or you for discomfort. Who knows but it was a £30k + punt I didn't want to take. And none of my cars are ornaments.
I don't think a GR is a family car for 99% of people.
As I said before, I had my 911 side by side to the GR and it was the Porsche that was far more usable for us.
Of course it's far better to drive too but that's a different matter entirely.
GR86 is not a family car for us either. We have an quick Estate for that. GR86 spends 90% of its time as a single occupancy with us but has that option and versatility when needed. Your 16 year old won't need a car seat so that saves some weight. What car seat are you using for your 5 year old?
Fair play if you and your family can make it work but I think you are a rare case. Maybe your kids have a high threshold for pain or you for discomfort. Who knows but it was a £30k + punt I didn't want to take. And none of my cars are ornaments.
I don't think a GR is a family car for 99% of people.
As I said before, I had my 911 side by side to the GR and it was the Porsche that was far more usable for us.
Of course it's far better to drive too but that's a different matter entirely.
I do agree as a single car it would be off the cards but to say it is completely unpractical is just untrue. If we only had the 1 child we could easily make it work no problem. Legroom is hardly any different to your average ryanair flight!
My son only uses a booster as he is 95% percentile for his age. 1.2 metres at 5 years old!
The issue is with myself driving I have the seat all the way to the back so I would need to compromise having anything behind me which isn't a child. I am 6ft3" but your average 5ft10" man could most likely make do.
Edited by BricktopST205 on Wednesday 3rd July 11:23
I have full size car seats in the 911 which work for us. When they just need a booster, it will be like an S Class back there..
I wanted the GR as a main family car which wasn't going to work. Unfortunately I therefore found it not practical enough as a family car and not exciting enough as a weekender so it wasn't for me.
greenarrow said:
BricktopST205 said:
https://youtu.be/5m9uw-Sdem4?si=_AVt7K8QIkGiQjY5
Was on Yoko Advan 052 which are road legal track tyres. Regardless of what you think about the car it is might impressive for something with just 240BHP.
As for analogue experience the only thing which isn't analogue compared to an old 996 is the rack which is electric as the vast majority of 996's will be electronic throttle. Even the 130i would have been electric steering unless it is an early one. The GR86 is about as analogue as you can get with RWD sports car in 2024. You can turn off everything and it even has an old fashioned hand brake.
The one thing an old 996 or 130i cannot match is the chassis development and aero development of the past 30 years. The GR86 has genuine aero through the front air dams and front wings. It is also pretty much a flat floor too. Then you add things like aluminium roof, boxer engine, aluminium wings and bonnet that all help bring down the centre of gravity.
Just coming back to this, I watched the full video of that lap and most impressive it was too. It had non standard wheels and as you say fairly trick tyres which obviously account for quite a lot of time, but even so I doff my cap to a sub 8 min BTG lap from a 240 BHP n/a car weighing around 1300KG. That said, I seem to remember the Renault Megane 265 Trophy doing an 8:06 way back in 2012 with a slightly superior power to weight ratio, but almost identical straightline performance, so on that basis, not quite such a big leap in 12 years.Was on Yoko Advan 052 which are road legal track tyres. Regardless of what you think about the car it is might impressive for something with just 240BHP.
As for analogue experience the only thing which isn't analogue compared to an old 996 is the rack which is electric as the vast majority of 996's will be electronic throttle. Even the 130i would have been electric steering unless it is an early one. The GR86 is about as analogue as you can get with RWD sports car in 2024. You can turn off everything and it even has an old fashioned hand brake.
The one thing an old 996 or 130i cannot match is the chassis development and aero development of the past 30 years. The GR86 has genuine aero through the front air dams and front wings. It is also pretty much a flat floor too. Then you add things like aluminium roof, boxer engine, aluminium wings and bonnet that all help bring down the centre of gravity.
Edited by BricktopST205 on Thursday 20th June 12:00
BTW I really like the GR86. Whenever I see it or its dad, the GT86 they really shout "buy me". My first car was a Ford Capri MK3 and when I sat in a GT86 years ago I said to my wife, this just feels like a Japanese Capri from the drivers seat, so you don't have to convince me on the merits of your car. I was just really defending the comments of 911Spanker, who seemed to have upset people with his view on why he preferred the older car. I still think older cars provide more feel and there's just nothing you can do about that due to the way modern cars have developed. But I accept the gains in chassis and tyre technology in the last 25 years are huge and on a track newer cars, like for like, will normally easily beat their grandfathers!
I had Fennsport tuned GT86 (214bhp) and now a 22 plate MX5 that will soon get an ECU tune to 198BHP. Both are superb cars.
I have a BMW 840d and a Tesla and both annihilate the Jap cars on paper but neither are as much fun.
I will likely keep the MX5 forever because for how long will you be able to get a <1100kg RWD NA car with a LSD?
Plus dropping the top adds 10mph to the experience all the time.
The answer is always an MX5.
I have a BMW 840d and a Tesla and both annihilate the Jap cars on paper but neither are as much fun.
I will likely keep the MX5 forever because for how long will you be able to get a <1100kg RWD NA car with a LSD?
Plus dropping the top adds 10mph to the experience all the time.
The answer is always an MX5.
daveco said:
Slightly modded E46 330s and E92 330s were doing BTG in under 8 minutes before 2012! it goes to show how important a good chassis is in instilling confidence in a driver to push a car to its limits.
That lap time isn't BTG with the GR86. That is a full flying lap. Big difference a sub 8 minute full lap is a quick car.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff