What do you daily drive? ICE vs. hybrid vs. PHEV vs. EV
Discussion
Just curious on this, as we just replaced our family vehicle (a diesel Grand Voyager that we owned for 8 years) and ultimately decided to stick with a petrol ICE vehicle (Mazda CX5). However, I know a few people with EVs/hybrids/PHEVs, some have had EVs and gone back to ICE and others say that they would never go back. The hybrid/PHEV drivers seem more neutral and would either consider another hybrid/ICE or go full EV.
Our car is probably quite a rare spec. The diesel might seem to be the one to have but we plan to keep it a while, so I wanted to “futureproof” as much as I could against future ULEZ zones and Mazda diesels don’t have the best rep for reliability. It’s the 2.5 petrol automatic with AWD. We didn’t necessarily need AWD but I prefer to have it in that style of vehicle and whereas the 2.5 is hardly brisk, it’s perfectly adequate in a family vehicle and I thought that the smaller petrol engines might feel somewhat underpowered. This is our first “crossover” and I’ve been a bit of a sceptic but actually I really like it. It feels more spacious and compliant than our other car (a mk7 Golf 1.4 TSI Estate), quality feels nice, I like the way it looks (top spec model) , it’s just a pleasant comfy drive but the steering is actually pretty sharp and accurate and it seemed to represent pretty good value in the marketplace (2021 vehicle).
We had also considered a Honda CRV but I wanted the latest model and it was over budget and the latest Kia Sorento, which retains the extra seats that we had in our Grand Voyager (a useful bonus) but again for a comparable age/mileage would have been significantly more. Could have looked at a Qashqai as well I suppose (and looking now, they’re comparable money) but I liked that the Mazda was a bit different and less ubiquitous. The Mazda dealership is also very local to us, has a good reputation for service and has had the franchise for 20+ years. That being said, we had a few niggles with the Mazda post-delivery that they currently have it in to address and I am confident that they will return it to our satisfaction but whilst they have it, they lent us a new Honda CRV Hybrid (as they also have a Honda franchise on the same site).
If I’m honest, it’s probably a better car than our CX5. Feels a bit more modern inside, controls a bit more intuitive and more spacious but the Mazda is prettier IMHO and a bit more fun to drive and was significantly cheaper, so I’m happy with our decision (new CRV starts at 45k+ now)! The drivetrain was of most interest to me though, as I’ve never driven an EV/hybrid vehicle before and by my understanding the ICE engine in this vehicle is not actually connected to the wheels, it just acts as a generator for the electric motor, which drives the wheels. Hence it takes off silently and relatively briskly on the battery before the engine cuts in, which mostly sits at idle, so just hums gently in the background. It lacks a little character and “punchiness” compared to my turbo Golf but it is a very refined and seamless drivetrain. Fuel consumption is a little disappointing. I’m averaging around 36mpg (I believe that Honda claim around 44mpg), which I guess is not terrible for an AWD vehicle of this style and is a little bit better than the Mazda, which averages low 30s mpg but my petrol Golf consistently averages 45-50mpg. I didn’t realise that Nissan offered a similar system (ePower?) on the Juke/Qashqai/X-Trail and I believe the claim is around 50mpg on the QQ but it’s only available with FWD. I guess that’s comparable to a diesel-powered Qashqai though, so pretty decent.
It's interesting how the Japanese car manufacturers have different powertrain strategies. Mazda have very much stuck with petrol/diesel, Toyota are still mostly hybrid and some PHEV (but their hybrid system works a bit differently to Honda’s/Nissan’s system)?, Honda are all hybrid (apart from Type R) and some PHEV/EV and Nissan have ePower, full EV and petrol/diesel?
I’m not sure what I would go with next to be honest. A full EV really appeals as a commuting tool and would save me a lot of money in fuel but the ones on my budget (eGolf, Leaf, i3 etc) have limited range, which is a PITA, as I need to do longer journeys fairly regularly too. Purchase price is also a consideration. Looking at vehicles that are available as both petrol/diesel and electric versions (Vauxhall Corsa for example), the electric version is significantly more to buy compared to the petrol (which itself is not uneconomical to run) and the petrol car can handle any journey that I want to do in it with ease. The self-sufficient hybrid (like the QQ and CRV that I am currently driving) definitely have appeal but the fuel economy gains are marginal at best on the type of driving that I do (mostly A-road/motorway), where I think a petrol/diesel car might still be King. I can see that these kind of vehicles would be more suitable for mainly urban driving though, where a petrol/diesel would use more fuel, pollute more and potentially have more reliability issues, especially diesels. The PHEV is the one that still baffles me a little. On paper, I guess it offers the best of both worlds in one vehicle but then becomes compromised both as an EV and an ICE car. The ICE engine is normally downrated vs a comparable petrol car e.g. Golf GTE vs. Golf GTI and as a result of the extra weight, the dynamics/performance of the car when the battery is depleted will inevitably suffer. An ex-colleague had a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV, which he claimed to love but he was always phoning up sports venues that he had to take his son to at the weekend for matches to see if they had anywhere for him to charge. He could do his short commute on electric alone, which was a bit of a gamechanger I guess but he had charging issues with it too and ultimately, as well as offering the best of ICE/EV, it also offers the worst of each too.
So what kind of powertrain does your current daily driver have, does it give you all the advantages and none of the disadvantages of that format and would you stick with the same type of powertrain for your next vehicle or go for something different?
Our car is probably quite a rare spec. The diesel might seem to be the one to have but we plan to keep it a while, so I wanted to “futureproof” as much as I could against future ULEZ zones and Mazda diesels don’t have the best rep for reliability. It’s the 2.5 petrol automatic with AWD. We didn’t necessarily need AWD but I prefer to have it in that style of vehicle and whereas the 2.5 is hardly brisk, it’s perfectly adequate in a family vehicle and I thought that the smaller petrol engines might feel somewhat underpowered. This is our first “crossover” and I’ve been a bit of a sceptic but actually I really like it. It feels more spacious and compliant than our other car (a mk7 Golf 1.4 TSI Estate), quality feels nice, I like the way it looks (top spec model) , it’s just a pleasant comfy drive but the steering is actually pretty sharp and accurate and it seemed to represent pretty good value in the marketplace (2021 vehicle).
We had also considered a Honda CRV but I wanted the latest model and it was over budget and the latest Kia Sorento, which retains the extra seats that we had in our Grand Voyager (a useful bonus) but again for a comparable age/mileage would have been significantly more. Could have looked at a Qashqai as well I suppose (and looking now, they’re comparable money) but I liked that the Mazda was a bit different and less ubiquitous. The Mazda dealership is also very local to us, has a good reputation for service and has had the franchise for 20+ years. That being said, we had a few niggles with the Mazda post-delivery that they currently have it in to address and I am confident that they will return it to our satisfaction but whilst they have it, they lent us a new Honda CRV Hybrid (as they also have a Honda franchise on the same site).
If I’m honest, it’s probably a better car than our CX5. Feels a bit more modern inside, controls a bit more intuitive and more spacious but the Mazda is prettier IMHO and a bit more fun to drive and was significantly cheaper, so I’m happy with our decision (new CRV starts at 45k+ now)! The drivetrain was of most interest to me though, as I’ve never driven an EV/hybrid vehicle before and by my understanding the ICE engine in this vehicle is not actually connected to the wheels, it just acts as a generator for the electric motor, which drives the wheels. Hence it takes off silently and relatively briskly on the battery before the engine cuts in, which mostly sits at idle, so just hums gently in the background. It lacks a little character and “punchiness” compared to my turbo Golf but it is a very refined and seamless drivetrain. Fuel consumption is a little disappointing. I’m averaging around 36mpg (I believe that Honda claim around 44mpg), which I guess is not terrible for an AWD vehicle of this style and is a little bit better than the Mazda, which averages low 30s mpg but my petrol Golf consistently averages 45-50mpg. I didn’t realise that Nissan offered a similar system (ePower?) on the Juke/Qashqai/X-Trail and I believe the claim is around 50mpg on the QQ but it’s only available with FWD. I guess that’s comparable to a diesel-powered Qashqai though, so pretty decent.
It's interesting how the Japanese car manufacturers have different powertrain strategies. Mazda have very much stuck with petrol/diesel, Toyota are still mostly hybrid and some PHEV (but their hybrid system works a bit differently to Honda’s/Nissan’s system)?, Honda are all hybrid (apart from Type R) and some PHEV/EV and Nissan have ePower, full EV and petrol/diesel?
I’m not sure what I would go with next to be honest. A full EV really appeals as a commuting tool and would save me a lot of money in fuel but the ones on my budget (eGolf, Leaf, i3 etc) have limited range, which is a PITA, as I need to do longer journeys fairly regularly too. Purchase price is also a consideration. Looking at vehicles that are available as both petrol/diesel and electric versions (Vauxhall Corsa for example), the electric version is significantly more to buy compared to the petrol (which itself is not uneconomical to run) and the petrol car can handle any journey that I want to do in it with ease. The self-sufficient hybrid (like the QQ and CRV that I am currently driving) definitely have appeal but the fuel economy gains are marginal at best on the type of driving that I do (mostly A-road/motorway), where I think a petrol/diesel car might still be King. I can see that these kind of vehicles would be more suitable for mainly urban driving though, where a petrol/diesel would use more fuel, pollute more and potentially have more reliability issues, especially diesels. The PHEV is the one that still baffles me a little. On paper, I guess it offers the best of both worlds in one vehicle but then becomes compromised both as an EV and an ICE car. The ICE engine is normally downrated vs a comparable petrol car e.g. Golf GTE vs. Golf GTI and as a result of the extra weight, the dynamics/performance of the car when the battery is depleted will inevitably suffer. An ex-colleague had a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV, which he claimed to love but he was always phoning up sports venues that he had to take his son to at the weekend for matches to see if they had anywhere for him to charge. He could do his short commute on electric alone, which was a bit of a gamechanger I guess but he had charging issues with it too and ultimately, as well as offering the best of ICE/EV, it also offers the worst of each too.
So what kind of powertrain does your current daily driver have, does it give you all the advantages and none of the disadvantages of that format and would you stick with the same type of powertrain for your next vehicle or go for something different?
I used to have this debate with myself, but then discovered the cheap leases thread. I’d always go for the best offer at the time. I do relatively low miles 3k to 5k a year around town so diesel is out, but would consider any other power train as I have the ability to charge from home.
The cost per year of use will be the overriding calculus for me. I’m surprised you didn’t mention your annual mileage as I would have thought that would be a key factor in any power train decision.
The cost per year of use will be the overriding calculus for me. I’m surprised you didn’t mention your annual mileage as I would have thought that would be a key factor in any power train decision.
Edited by wyson on Wednesday 26th June 20:45
My daily driver is a 20 year-old petrol.
My wife's was an 18 year-old petrol but that has just died and will probably be replaced by an EV. For our use-case there really is no downside to an EV. They're not even significantly more expensive to buy used than equivalent ICE cars at the moment.
My wife's was an 18 year-old petrol but that has just died and will probably be replaced by an EV. For our use-case there really is no downside to an EV. They're not even significantly more expensive to buy used than equivalent ICE cars at the moment.
wyson said:
I used to have this debate with myself, but then discovered the cheap leases thread. I’d always go for the best offer at the time. I do relatively low miles 3k to 5k a year around town so diesel is out, but would consider any other power train as I have the ability to charge from home.
The cost per year of use will be the overriding calculus for me. I’m surprised you didn’t mention your annual mileage as I would have thought that would be a key factor in any power train decision.
For me, 20k per year but I mostly use the Golf (8 years old now and around 120k). Commute is typically 35 miles each way, so a sub 200 mile range EV doable but I have to travel to our other location fairly regularly, which is just over 200 miles away, so that's a little marginal. My wife (who mostly uses the Mazda) is currently doing her PGCE, so her annual mileage is still a little up in the air at the moment. Has been fairly low up to now, as she has been working locally.The cost per year of use will be the overriding calculus for me. I’m surprised you didn’t mention your annual mileage as I would have thought that would be a key factor in any power train decision.
Edited by wyson on Wednesday 26th June 20:45
I went from Diesel (70 plate E350d) to EV (ID3) last September. It's done over 21k miles since then without any issues at all. Don't miss the E-Class one bit. Far prefer the drivetrain even in a lowly ID3 / Born.
My wife has a Cupra Born which has 20k miles on it since March last year, so we're fully EV now day to day.
Have a 5.0V8 in the garage for some weekend noise, but wouldn't go back to ICE for daily now unless I couldn't charge at home.
We've got two 7kW chargers at home as got them free, but one would generally work fine for us.
My wife has a Cupra Born which has 20k miles on it since March last year, so we're fully EV now day to day.
Have a 5.0V8 in the garage for some weekend noise, but wouldn't go back to ICE for daily now unless I couldn't charge at home.
We've got two 7kW chargers at home as got them free, but one would generally work fine for us.
EV and wouldn't want to go back. That said I wouldn't want to be without access to an ICE car too.
Both have their merits but it's an absolute no brainer for the daily. I can't think of a single thing an ICE car would do better at 0400 on the commute.
Currently got a Toyota self charging hybrid as a loan car while mine is being fixed. Economy seems reasonable but god is it boring. I assume its got a CVT box which I've never had before, it's not growing on me. You also have to do a 3 press disclaimer on the screen every single time you get in. It also bongs whenever you go over the speed limit which is one thing but it thinks a load of the 30 limits near me are 20 so it's bonging all the time.
New cars are just utter s
te in that respect.
Both have their merits but it's an absolute no brainer for the daily. I can't think of a single thing an ICE car would do better at 0400 on the commute.
Currently got a Toyota self charging hybrid as a loan car while mine is being fixed. Economy seems reasonable but god is it boring. I assume its got a CVT box which I've never had before, it's not growing on me. You also have to do a 3 press disclaimer on the screen every single time you get in. It also bongs whenever you go over the speed limit which is one thing but it thinks a load of the 30 limits near me are 20 so it's bonging all the time.
New cars are just utter s
te in that respect. Edited by ChocolateFrog on Wednesday 26th June 21:25
I daily drive a BMW F82 M4, and my missus daily drives a Merc GLE400d. My missus does 30k miles a year, so her next car will be another diesel. I only do 10k miles a year, so I guess that an EV could be considered to replace the M4. However...the ideal replacement for the M4 would be a G82 M4 xDrive though.
Neither of us feel ready for an EV yet though(we both love engines too much), however that could possibly change as time goes on though to be fair.
Neither of us feel ready for an EV yet though(we both love engines too much), however that could possibly change as time goes on though to be fair.
I had a couple of turbo-diesels when I was doing business mileage and getting a work car allowance, but went back to petrol after I left that job.
My current daily driver for the last 5 years is now an 18 year old RWD manual straight 6, which is handy as my sister lives inside the extended ULEZ.
ETA I don't do many miles so most of the time an EV would work, but now and again I do a 200+ mile trip and I don't think the cheaper EVs have that sort of range yet so they don't appeal. My old shed can do a return trip on one tank of petrol!
My current daily driver for the last 5 years is now an 18 year old RWD manual straight 6, which is handy as my sister lives inside the extended ULEZ.
ETA I don't do many miles so most of the time an EV would work, but now and again I do a 200+ mile trip and I don't think the cheaper EVs have that sort of range yet so they don't appeal. My old shed can do a return trip on one tank of petrol!
Edited by Mr Tidy on Wednesday 26th June 23:43
white_goodman said:
So what kind of powertrain does your current daily driver have, does it give you all the advantages and none of the disadvantages of that format and would you stick with the same type of powertrain for your next vehicle or go for something different?
My current daily driver is a Tesla 3 LR. It replaced a supercharged Range Rover, which I'd had from new - about 15 years. I commuted into London in the Range Rover and it was the main family car. I'd previously had XKR's as daily drivers.The Tesla can't be used to transport large bits of furniture or go off road - but other than that, the Tesla wins hands down in every other department. It doesn't cost £150 to fill up with petrol, or £1,000 to service. It's quicker too. I would have another one without any hesitation. They are very easy cars to own.
white_goodman said:
So is a hybrid/PHEV "worth it" or are you better off just going pure EV or pure ICE?
This is what I am thinking? Maybe a Toyota Corolla or some type of Lexus.I do 20k a year more or less all motorway so I aren’t sure if a hybrid would be economical in that use. I have an old Audi A3 diesel it’s done 215k so I really should get something newer. But I can’t decide what and what’s the point in spending lots of money on a car I will just go up and down the motorway in? Diesel does suit me and an ideal car is probably a BMW M340D estate. But £40k+ just to get me work and back. I don’t think so!
Have a EV for family duties (Taycan 4s), range is fine we are close enough to airports and rarely do long UK drives. However, the car that gets used far, far more is my M240 X drive (G42). It costs more to run, has a tiny 50l fuel tank so always getting filled, but is my preferred drive in and around London. Looking at the miles, ive done 15k in 18months in the 240 and only 4k in a year in the Taycan. There is a replacement for the 240 coming which is petrol, the Taycan is not due replacement yet - but likely retain an EV for the family car. Economically this makes no sense, but I just like the (not so) little BMW.
It seems that outside of the Eurozone, certainty in the Middle East, there is not the ICE vs EV debate.
Where we live EVs are nice to have, maybe even a gimmick. If the uptake is too great, I am not sure the current electricity grid will be able to handle the power needed to charge them.
Mrs WnT and myself both drive ICEs and will continue to do so. I have a 2023 Ram Power Wagon, She has a 2012 Chevvy Tahoe.
Where we live EVs are nice to have, maybe even a gimmick. If the uptake is too great, I am not sure the current electricity grid will be able to handle the power needed to charge them.
Mrs WnT and myself both drive ICEs and will continue to do so. I have a 2023 Ram Power Wagon, She has a 2012 Chevvy Tahoe.
georgeyboy12345 said:
PHEV - I do ~7000 miles a year of mostly stop-start city driving with the occasional long trip thrown in. It has saved me literally thousands of pounds per year in fuel costs vs a petrol. I love it.
Your previous car must have had absolutely terrible fuel economy for a PHEV to save you thousands per year at 7000 miles pa.Commute to work via train, but my daily driver is a first generation Hyundai i10 shed. So petrol, obviously. Road tax mega low, super basic so little to break on it, gets >45mpg on a run. Major downside - it’s slow as fk.
A second hand small electric car (e-Corsa maybe) would work very well for me, 95% of the time. But for the times I want to go into the countryside and do more than 200 miles in a day, it’s just be an inconvenience. And obviously it’d cost loads more to buy than my Hyundai is worth.
If my Hyundai blew up tomorrow, I’d buy another cheap petrol car. I’m optimizing for cheapness.
k. A second hand small electric car (e-Corsa maybe) would work very well for me, 95% of the time. But for the times I want to go into the countryside and do more than 200 miles in a day, it’s just be an inconvenience. And obviously it’d cost loads more to buy than my Hyundai is worth.
If my Hyundai blew up tomorrow, I’d buy another cheap petrol car. I’m optimizing for cheapness.
Edited by Jawls on Thursday 27th June 09:06
Edited by Jawls on Thursday 27th June 09:08
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