Aston Martin fresh financial troubles
Discussion
I wonder how much longer Aston Martin can afford to pour money into F1, which is largely a Stroll vanity project with not a massive amount of success.
The latest financial concern is being resolved via some sort of wooden dollar sale of the name to the F1 team, which is all under the same ownership anyway https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/feb/20/a...
Who knows how long they ll remain in F1 without significantly better results and a tangible connection between F1 and car sales.
The latest financial concern is being resolved via some sort of wooden dollar sale of the name to the F1 team, which is all under the same ownership anyway https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/feb/20/a...
Who knows how long they ll remain in F1 without significantly better results and a tangible connection between F1 and car sales.
I would be interested to read a deep dive into both companies finances. Face value seems to be that they are both borrowing increasingly large amounts of money at ever higher cost whilst losing increasingly large sums of money.
In addition, the car company makes less cars and the F1 team scores less points.
In addition, the car company makes less cars and the F1 team scores less points.
Don't forget they have spent a huge amount on a new factory, this is a huge selling point if someone came in, the road car division is in tough times, tough brand to sell right now, as many are it seems. I know people who worked there who have recently been laid off.
Stroll is a tough man, apparently, but that is how you need to be. Newey will get it right I am sure, his new car is ambitious, been let down it seems by Honda who have fumbled new rules yet again.
The sad aspect is Nando who surely will not want to wait around forever, his speed will drop eventually. And Stroll is not good enough as a yardstick to know really.
Stroll is a tough man, apparently, but that is how you need to be. Newey will get it right I am sure, his new car is ambitious, been let down it seems by Honda who have fumbled new rules yet again.
The sad aspect is Nando who surely will not want to wait around forever, his speed will drop eventually. And Stroll is not good enough as a yardstick to know really.
Yep, nice new factory but not paid for so the saving for anyone coming in would be on the timescale to construct similar.
It will be facinating to see if it all comes together as a sucessful F1 team or all turns out to be financial smoke and mirrors.
Or perhaps, more likely, somewhere between the two
Just a thought has anyone ever made a profit from owning Aston Martin car company or F1 successors to Jordon?
It will be facinating to see if it all comes together as a sucessful F1 team or all turns out to be financial smoke and mirrors.
Or perhaps, more likely, somewhere between the two
Just a thought has anyone ever made a profit from owning Aston Martin car company or F1 successors to Jordon?
Misanthroper said:
Who knows how long they ll remain in F1 without significantly better results and a tangible connection between F1 and car sales.
It doesn't affect the F1 team as it's an entirely different company - the one Larry saved Racing Point with - and is basically Team Stroll sponsored by AM. The road car division is a different company and Larry is just shifting money from one company to another to help the road car side. Happy to be corrected
entropy said:
Misanthroper said:
Who knows how long they ll remain in F1 without significantly better results and a tangible connection between F1 and car sales.
It doesn't affect the F1 team as it's an entirely different company - the one Larry saved Racing Point with - and is basically Team Stroll sponsored by AM. The road car division is a different company and Larry is just shifting money from one company to another to help the road car side. Happy to be corrected
If the car company collapsed the team would be unaffected, other than it would require attachment to a different brand.
Aston Martin as a car manufacturer are deeply screwed for all sorts of reasons, they're far too small to develop and keep pace with modern automotive technology - theur future is likely as a sub brand for one if the automotive ginats. I think Mercedes are already well aligned to become that parent company, as and when Aston can no longer pay their bills.
TheDeuce said:
entropy said:
Misanthroper said:
Who knows how long they ll remain in F1 without significantly better results and a tangible connection between F1 and car sales.
It doesn't affect the F1 team as it's an entirely different company - the one Larry saved Racing Point with - and is basically Team Stroll sponsored by AM. The road car division is a different company and Larry is just shifting money from one company to another to help the road car side. Happy to be corrected
If the car company collapsed the team would be unaffected, other than it would require attachment to a different brand.
Aston Martin as a car manufacturer are deeply screwed for all sorts of reasons, they're far too small to develop and keep pace with modern automotive technology - theur future is likely as a sub brand for one if the automotive ginats. I think Mercedes are already well aligned to become that parent company, as and when Aston can no longer pay their bills.
With the value of F1 teams rocketing up, Stroll is lining his own pockets by investing in the F1 team at the expense of AML's shareholders, and employees (many of whom are now being laid off).
Piginapoke said:
This is the key point- Aston Martin Lagonda pays to sponsor the F1 team owned by Lawrence Stroll, the Exec Chair of AML- they are totally separate. You could argue this is a huge conflict of interest, and no sane car company that's losing £200m per year would pay another £20m to sponsor an F1 team.
With the value of F1 teams rocketing up, Stroll is lining his own pockets by investing in the F1 team at the expense of AML's shareholders, and employees (many of whom are now being laid off).
That's probably unfair. AML do need to market themselves and they're very likely getting the F1 exposure for a great rate.With the value of F1 teams rocketing up, Stroll is lining his own pockets by investing in the F1 team at the expense of AML's shareholders, and employees (many of whom are now being laid off).
If a company is losing £200m a year and paying just £20m a year for global F1 exposure then the chances are they'd be laying off far more people if the F1 deal was ended. That's true more than ever now that there's a very real chance the Bond gravy train might be ended - or at least a long pause before they get a fresh dose of it.
I think they are two completely separate entities. One owned by shareholders, the other owned by Stroll senior. The car maker is a dead duck. Lawrence has done a good job of finding other mugs to buy into his losses.
The F1 team is gold, in comparison. Cadillac could probably sell for $1billion without yet racing competitively. Has has already turned down more than that. F1 is a BUY in investment terms while the car manufacturing is a definite SELL.
So the selling of title naming rights is simply an accounting procedure. Once Lance becomes convinced that he is never likely to win the AMF1 he will, no doubt, be sold for really big bucks, probably to an ARAMCO consortium who will not use the AM moniker.
The F1 team is gold, in comparison. Cadillac could probably sell for $1billion without yet racing competitively. Has has already turned down more than that. F1 is a BUY in investment terms while the car manufacturing is a definite SELL.
So the selling of title naming rights is simply an accounting procedure. Once Lance becomes convinced that he is never likely to win the AMF1 he will, no doubt, be sold for really big bucks, probably to an ARAMCO consortium who will not use the AM moniker.
AML haven t been profitable for seemingly decades now, probably since shortly after they first launched the new V8 Vantage.
Quite amazingly, with the way F1 is now structured the teams have an intrinsic value, so this deal is actually a reverse sponsorship with the F1 team investing in AML. As others have said they re two separate companies, although with many shareholders in common. The F1 team shareholders aren t too bothered as they re sitting on 10x their investment inside a decade.
They just need a competitive racing car now, which definitely wasn t on show in testing.
Edit: @rdjohn beats me to the same point by a couple of minutes!
Quite amazingly, with the way F1 is now structured the teams have an intrinsic value, so this deal is actually a reverse sponsorship with the F1 team investing in AML. As others have said they re two separate companies, although with many shareholders in common. The F1 team shareholders aren t too bothered as they re sitting on 10x their investment inside a decade.
They just need a competitive racing car now, which definitely wasn t on show in testing.
Edit: @rdjohn beats me to the same point by a couple of minutes!
rdjohn said:
I think they are two completely separate entities. One owned by shareholders, the other owned by Stroll senior. The car maker is a dead duck. Lawrence has done a good job of finding other mugs to buy into his losses.
The F1 team is gold, in comparison. Cadillac could probably sell for $1billion without yet racing competitively. Has has already turned down more than that. F1 is a BUY in investment terms while the car manufacturing is a definite SELL.
So the selling of title naming rights is simply an accounting procedure. Once Lance becomes convinced that he is never likely to win the AMF1 he will, no doubt, be sold for really big bucks, probably to an ARAMCO consortium who will not use the AM moniker.
If the trend continues, we could end up with a reverse of Enzo Ferrari's mantra of selling road cars in order to go racing!The F1 team is gold, in comparison. Cadillac could probably sell for $1billion without yet racing competitively. Has has already turned down more than that. F1 is a BUY in investment terms while the car manufacturing is a definite SELL.
So the selling of title naming rights is simply an accounting procedure. Once Lance becomes convinced that he is never likely to win the AMF1 he will, no doubt, be sold for really big bucks, probably to an ARAMCO consortium who will not use the AM moniker.
Given manufacturers seem to compete in F1 primarily for brand equity, marketing exposure and capability development — with direct vehicle sales impact being relatively modest — it does raise an interesting question.
If many programmes still operate at a financial loss, is that simply accepted as a marketing investment, or is there a point where sustained underperformance and visible spending could begin to dilute rather than enhance brand value?
If many programmes still operate at a financial loss, is that simply accepted as a marketing investment, or is there a point where sustained underperformance and visible spending could begin to dilute rather than enhance brand value?
Will be interesting to see what AM turn up with at Melbourne, with Regard to the road cars, I walked into the AM showroom in Brentwood late last year, I was shocked at the prices, especially when you see how rapidly they depreciate. Then the salesman told us they aren't Mercedes engines, they send the blocks over and AM build the engines, as he was looking at my AMG parked outside
There's some decent analysis on the road car company here: https://ssoreport.com
I know they are separate but the car division is laying off 20% of its workforce. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp9m8n2vx0mo
hondajack85 said:
Thats what the trump tariffs will do. Its a shame as if you see a new Aston on the street its very impressive. Not like the crummy old ones when ford owned it and it had crappy bits of sierra in it.
Hofefully the can find markets elsewhere in the real world.
The DB9 generation? No Ford in them, they were generally well received cars.Hofefully the can find markets elsewhere in the real world.
The new ones are ok but I find the interiors a bit weird... Also whilst the shape of the cars are very nice, very modern looking compared to the previous generation, I don't think they're as much of a classic design.
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