Could Red Bull be up for sale soon?

[Wish]

With the current difficulties and with DM dying and internal issues and people leaving, could we see a team up for sale soon?

Is it a possibility? its stock must be valued the highest it’s ever been.

[Muzzer79]

Don’t see any reason why they’d sell it

Red Bull are in F1 for marketing purposes. They achieve that, to a degree, whether they win or not (see Haas)

I thought they might sell Toro Rosso/VCARB when DM dies but a rebrand there, to me, signifies they’re keeping that.

Finally, whilst some people are leaving, last time I looked they were still leading both championships

[jules_s]

Horner driving down the value so he can buy it

[belleair302]

Unlikely as the Thai’s don’t need the money and the global brand publicity is vast. Aston Martin will the ones for sale and oddly McLaren sooner rather than later.

[thekingisdead]

Alpine will be sold. That’s why they’ve ditched Renault engines and switched to a customer engine - easier to sell.
Also why Flav is back as an advisor - he’s a deal maker out the same mould as Bernie

[HighwayStar]

belleair302 said:

Unlikely as the Thai’s don’t need the money and the global brand publicity is vast. Aston Martin will the ones for sale and oddly McLaren sooner rather than later.

McLaren, already happened in March ‘24… McLaren Automotive and the F1 Team is owned by Bahrain Mumtalakat Holding Company, the sovereign wealth fund for the Kingdom of Bahrain.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-68639320

Edited by HighwayStar on Sunday 4th August 09:39

[ggdrew]

Interesting times, didn't realise cash was so tight at McLaren since Covid. And Geely are reported to be looking to increase their shareholding, as they are also gradually doing with their shareholding in Aston Martin Lagonda.
Mere pocket change to Geely, a bit bit like one of us buying Dutton kit-car company.

[StevieBee]

I really don't buy into the 'vortex of doom' some are suggesting exists at Red Bull.

No team remains dominant forever. Personal come and go in every team. Drivers used to dominance get all dummy-spitting when it's not there.

There's clearly something muddying the waters there but nothing that hasn't been seen in F1 teams since F1 started.

[TheDeuce]

No.

The team can easily be funded and turn a direct profit in addition to selling billions of cans of drink even if their performance collapses and becomes an embarrassment, and their TP becomes an even bigger embarrassment...

In that scenario the marketing value of the teams existence won't be 'as strong' as it has been, but will still easily be cheaper marketing than anything else they could be doing globally. It's not just cheap, it's free, or less than free if they take a cash profit too.

RBR as a team want to be winners. RBR as an entity owned by Red Bull make sense as a global marketing tool no matter how troubled the team becomes or how st the results.

If things get too nasty or embarrassing, they'll jettison Horny and continue in F1 with a renewed PR drive.

[anonymous_user]

wasn't it reported months ago that Horny & backers were trying to buy it? ...& the Thai's were onboard with that, hence backing him during 'PA gate'?

[TheDeuce]

anonymous_user said:

wasn't it reported months ago that Horny & backers were trying to buy it? ...& the Thai's were onboard with that, hence backing him during 'PA gate'?

Could be true, could be part of the rift.

Eve. If it was true I'd be amazed if they'd want to sell the whole team, perhaps a significant % to keep Horny happy, since he seems to have the full backing of the Thai's.

There's no reason anyone at Red Bull should want to detach the team from the brand though.

[realjv]

TheDeuce said:

anonymous_user said:

wasn't it reported months ago that Horny & backers were trying to buy it? ...& the Thai's were onboard with that, hence backing him during 'PA gate'?

Could be true, could be part of the rift.

Eve. If it was true I'd be amazed if they'd want to sell the whole team, perhaps a significant % to keep Horny happy, since he seems to have the full backing of the Thai's.

There's no reason anyone at Red Bull should want to detach the team from the brand though.

Chalerm Yoovidhya is the majority shareholder in Red Bull (The overall company and the F1 team) but he doesn't get a say in the running of the company. Yoovidhya wants control and Horner wants an ownership stake so I can see how their interests can be made to align if Horner buys some (or all) of the shares in the F1 team owned by the Mark Mateschitz.

Is there a good reason for splitting the F1 team from the wider Red Bull? Well that depends on how interested and emotionally invested you are in continuing to own the drinks company. Keep the F1 team (the glamerous fun part), sell the Red Bull drinks brand, make a huge pile of cash. It wouldn't be a tough sell. Given that Red Bull is essentially a re-brand of a product that was already being produced by Chaleo Yoovidhya when he went into parternership with Dietrich Mateschitz to setup Red Bull I wonder where the ownership of the drink formula actual lays. Was it simply licenced but the ownership remained solely with Chaleo and now Chalerm?

[Maxdecel]

This is mostly how I remember it, though some statements subsequently became wide of the mark.
"....this shows that throwing money at a team isn't enough, it's how that is spent that counts" ...? What, on catering

[Sandpit Steve]

TheDeuce said:

anonymous_user said:

wasn't it reported months ago that Horny & backers were trying to buy it? ...& the Thai's were onboard with that, hence backing him during 'PA gate'?

Could be true, could be part of the rift.

Eve. If it was true I'd be amazed if they'd want to sell the whole team, perhaps a significant % to keep Horny happy, since he seems to have the full backing of the Thai's.

There's no reason anyone at Red Bull should want to detach the team from the brand though.

Mercedes did a realignment of their team shareholdings a couple of years back, which appeared to work for everyone involved, but it’s difficult to imagine RB doing the same.

The various factions within the wider RB company have differing views on the team(s), but the main RB team is a profitable business that also generates a serious amount of brand awareness for their primary product.

But Horny doesn’t have any real money, he’s obviously done well for himself but doesn’t have the nine figures in the bank that would be necessary for a substantial share in the team, which begs the question of who’s backing him financially and what is their agenda?

So if not a management buyout, who’s interested? Obviously the price to sell to someone who won’t maintain the RB brand on the team is a lot higher, in which case the buyer’s due diligence centers on things like intellectual property and their key personnel - two of the top three of which have just resigned, and the other is embroiled in a sex scandal.

[TheDeuce]

Sandpit Steve said:

TheDeuce said:

anonymous_user said:

wasn't it reported months ago that Horny & backers were trying to buy it? ...& the Thai's were onboard with that, hence backing him during 'PA gate'?

Could be true, could be part of the rift.

Eve. If it was true I'd be amazed if they'd want to sell the whole team, perhaps a significant % to keep Horny happy, since he seems to have the full backing of the Thai's.

There's no reason anyone at Red Bull should want to detach the team from the brand though.

Mercedes did a realignment of their team shareholdings a couple of years back, which appeared to work for everyone involved, but it’s difficult to imagine RB doing the same.

The various factions within the wider RB company have differing views on the team(s), but the main RB team is a profitable business that also generates a serious amount of brand awareness for their primary product.

But Horny doesn’t have any real money, he’s obviously done well for himself but doesn’t have the nine figures in the bank that would be necessary for a substantial share in the team, which begs the question of who’s backing him financially and what is their agenda?

So if not a management buyout, who’s interested? Obviously the price to sell to someone who won’t maintain the RB brand on the team is a lot higher, in which case the buyer’s due diligence centers on things like intellectual property and their key personnel - two of the top three of which have just resigned, and the other is embroiled in a sex scandal.

If I were pushed for a theory... I would say that Horny was hoping the Thai's would want him to remain and were open to him becoming a significant shareholder of the team in order to cement his remaining at the team and his loyalty etc. He would raise the funds via 'whoever' (I'm sure he spends a lot of time with wealthy folk) to buy that stake.

Alongside that intent on his part, clearly others with some influence didn't like the idea, and the sex stuff was leaked.

As of right now, it's probably a bit of a check-mate scenario. He's surely less investable in/desirable as a result of the leaks and as a result of the loss of talent at the team. He's also still useful and fundamentally good at his job.

The details I'm guessing at, but I feel confident that one way or another, he went for a power play and then had the ladder whipped out from beneath him by the leak and subsequent fall out. So now, he's back at square one, but with a damaged team and everyone knows he had a wk on a plane. Funny how the world of business plays out