Jonathan Wheatley to leave Red Bull
Discussion
Jasandjules said:
A pity they let him keep his UK passport, I would have thrown him out.
And if that is the kind of character that Audi want, may they fail miserably in their endeavours.
But the rats are leaving that sinking ship at a rate of knots.
I think the game is pretty much up at RBR and they're about to enter a period of decline, starting next season - or I suppose, already this season... Obviously Horny's behaviour and whatever the power play going on at the team is, isn't great, but I also suspect there is limited confidence that their home-brewed 2026 PU is going to be competitive, partly because of rumours, partly because they're a brand new PU outfit up against Merc and Ferrari who have over a decade's worth of experience developing hybrid power units, also partly because Max seems to not give a fAnd if that is the kind of character that Audi want, may they fail miserably in their endeavours.
But the rats are leaving that sinking ship at a rate of knots.
k about the team so I imagine he's thinking he's not going to remain their long term. I also note Horny and Jos continue to make little snipes at one another in the media.This is not a team that's united and looking forward to a rosy future together.. Tbh I don't know how Horny manages to maintain his air of imperiousness, it's quite evident that he had a great team and then allowed it to implode.
TheDeuce said:
Jasandjules said:
A pity they let him keep his UK passport, I would have thrown him out.
And if that is the kind of character that Audi want, may they fail miserably in their endeavours.
But the rats are leaving that sinking ship at a rate of knots.
I think the game is pretty much up at RBR and they're about to enter a period of decline, starting next season - or I suppose, already this season... Obviously Horny's behaviour and whatever the power play going on at the team is, isn't great, but I also suspect there is limited confidence that their home-brewed 2026 PU is going to be competitive, partly because of rumours, partly because they're a brand new PU outfit up against Merc and Ferrari who have over a decade's worth of experience developing hybrid power units, also partly because Max seems to not give a fAnd if that is the kind of character that Audi want, may they fail miserably in their endeavours.
But the rats are leaving that sinking ship at a rate of knots.
k about the team so I imagine he's thinking he's not going to remain their long term. I also note Horny and Jos continue to make little snipes at one another in the media.This is not a team that's united and looking forward to a rosy future together.. Tbh I don't know how Horny manages to maintain his air of imperiousness, it's quite evident that he had a great team and then allowed it to implode.
" ..this provides opportunity to elevate others within the team. We will announce a new team structure in the coming weeks."
- https://www.redbullracing.com/int-en/team-announce...
Maxdecel said:
TheDeuce said:
Jasandjules said:
A pity they let him keep his UK passport, I would have thrown him out.
And if that is the kind of character that Audi want, may they fail miserably in their endeavours.
But the rats are leaving that sinking ship at a rate of knots.
I think the game is pretty much up at RBR and they're about to enter a period of decline, starting next season - or I suppose, already this season... Obviously Horny's behaviour and whatever the power play going on at the team is, isn't great, but I also suspect there is limited confidence that their home-brewed 2026 PU is going to be competitive, partly because of rumours, partly because they're a brand new PU outfit up against Merc and Ferrari who have over a decade's worth of experience developing hybrid power units, also partly because Max seems to not give a fAnd if that is the kind of character that Audi want, may they fail miserably in their endeavours.
But the rats are leaving that sinking ship at a rate of knots.
k about the team so I imagine he's thinking he's not going to remain their long term. I also note Horny and Jos continue to make little snipes at one another in the media.This is not a team that's united and looking forward to a rosy future together.. Tbh I don't know how Horny manages to maintain his air of imperiousness, it's quite evident that he had a great team and then allowed it to implode.
" ..this provides opportunity to elevate others within the team. We will announce a new team structure in the coming weeks."
- https://www.redbullracing.com/int-en/team-announce...
Some PR person: "this is all a bit negative, f
k it, just add a sentence at the end of the press release that spins it into a positive"So now they just have to find someone to replace Wheatley, someone to replace Newey... All positive! When Max pisses off will that be a positive too?
TheDeuce said:
Jasandjules said:
A pity they let him keep his UK passport, I would have thrown him out.
And if that is the kind of character that Audi want, may they fail miserably in their endeavours.
But the rats are leaving that sinking ship at a rate of knots.
I think the game is pretty much up at RBR and they're about to enter a period of decline, starting next season - or I suppose, already this season... Obviously Horny's behaviour and whatever the power play going on at the team is, isn't great, but I also suspect there is limited confidence that their home-brewed 2026 PU is going to be competitive, partly because of rumours, partly because they're a brand new PU outfit up against Merc and Ferrari who have over a decade's worth of experience developing hybrid power units, also partly because Max seems to not give a fAnd if that is the kind of character that Audi want, may they fail miserably in their endeavours.
But the rats are leaving that sinking ship at a rate of knots.
k about the team so I imagine he's thinking he's not going to remain their long term. I also note Horny and Jos continue to make little snipes at one another in the media.This is not a team that's united and looking forward to a rosy future together.. Tbh I don't know how Horny manages to maintain his air of imperiousness, it's quite evident that he had a great team and then allowed it to implode.
TheDeuce said:
Jasandjules said:
A pity they let him keep his UK passport, I would have thrown him out.
And if that is the kind of character that Audi want, may they fail miserably in their endeavours.
But the rats are leaving that sinking ship at a rate of knots.
I think the game is pretty much up at RBR and they're about to enter a period of decline, starting next season - or I suppose, already this season... Obviously Horny's behaviour and whatever the power play going on at the team is, isn't great, but I also suspect there is limited confidence that their home-brewed 2026 PU is going to be competitive, partly because of rumours, partly because they're a brand new PU outfit up against Merc and Ferrari who have over a decade's worth of experience developing hybrid power units, also partly because Max seems to not give a fAnd if that is the kind of character that Audi want, may they fail miserably in their endeavours.
But the rats are leaving that sinking ship at a rate of knots.
k about the team so I imagine he's thinking he's not going to remain their long term. I also note Horny and Jos continue to make little snipes at one another in the media.This is not a team that's united and looking forward to a rosy future together.. Tbh I don't know how Horny manages to maintain his air of imperiousness, it's quite evident that he had a great team and then allowed it to implode.
tele_lover said:
TheDeuce said:
Jasandjules said:
A pity they let him keep his UK passport, I would have thrown him out.
And if that is the kind of character that Audi want, may they fail miserably in their endeavours.
But the rats are leaving that sinking ship at a rate of knots.
I think the game is pretty much up at RBR and they're about to enter a period of decline, starting next season - or I suppose, already this season... Obviously Horny's behaviour and whatever the power play going on at the team is, isn't great, but I also suspect there is limited confidence that their home-brewed 2026 PU is going to be competitive, partly because of rumours, partly because they're a brand new PU outfit up against Merc and Ferrari who have over a decade's worth of experience developing hybrid power units, also partly because Max seems to not give a fAnd if that is the kind of character that Audi want, may they fail miserably in their endeavours.
But the rats are leaving that sinking ship at a rate of knots.
k about the team so I imagine he's thinking he's not going to remain their long term. I also note Horny and Jos continue to make little snipes at one another in the media.This is not a team that's united and looking forward to a rosy future together.. Tbh I don't know how Horny manages to maintain his air of imperiousness, it's quite evident that he had a great team and then allowed it to implode.
Lots of things are possible. But lump it all together and it's fair to say that talent is walking away from, not towards RBR this season, and probably more people than we hear about.
That's not to say that the creation of a well funded new works team by Audi isn't a fair draw for talent, regardless of the state of RBR. I think RBR are in a state of decline now, for several reasons, and it's hardly surprising that much of the talent moving around are choosing now to depart RBR.
To lose your design chief or your team manager might be seen as a little unfortunate for a boss. But to lose both within three months is not a good look for Mr Horny.
Add to them not having won a race in the last four, having won eight of the first ten of the season, and the future of the team doesn’t look good.
Oh, and after next year there’s a new engine to make, with a team they’ve had to assemble from scratch to design and build it.
Add to them not having won a race in the last four, having won eight of the first ten of the season, and the future of the team doesn’t look good.
Oh, and after next year there’s a new engine to make, with a team they’ve had to assemble from scratch to design and build it.
Sandpit Steve said:
To lose your design chief or your team manager might be seen as a little unfortunate for a boss. But to lose both within three months is not a good look for Mr Horny.
Add to them not having won a race in the last four, having won eight of the first ten of the season, and the future of the team doesn’t look good.
Oh, and after next year there’s a new engine to make, with a team they’ve had to assemble from scratch to design and build it.
And it seems likely the loss of pace was due to some form of active brake distribution across the axles that was never legal in the first place and is now the subject of a specific clarification in the rules, so that's gone too.Add to them not having won a race in the last four, having won eight of the first ten of the season, and the future of the team doesn’t look good.
Oh, and after next year there’s a new engine to make, with a team they’ve had to assemble from scratch to design and build it.
Of the last four GP's, Max has only seen the podium once. Quite the swing in fortune for an unbeatable car.
TheDeuce said:
And it seems likely the loss of pace was due to some form of active brake distribution across the axles that was never legal in the first place and is now the subject of a specific clarification in the rules, so that's gone too.
Of the last four GP's, Max has only seen the podium once. Quite the swing in fortune for an unbeatable car.
At Spa wasn’t Max moaning about brake bias and related turn in issues? Seems to tally. Of the last four GP's, Max has only seen the podium once. Quite the swing in fortune for an unbeatable car.
Sandpit Steve said:
To lose your design chief or your team manager might be seen as a little unfortunate for a boss. But to lose both within three months is not a good look for Mr Horny.
Add to them not having won a race in the last four, having won eight of the first ten of the season, and the future of the team doesn’t look good.
Oh, and after next year there’s a new engine to make, with a team they’ve had to assemble from scratch to design and build it.
Indeed. Before Spa it was the first time they hadn't won in three races since 2021, not sure what four races without a win is.Add to them not having won a race in the last four, having won eight of the first ten of the season, and the future of the team doesn’t look good.
Oh, and after next year there’s a new engine to make, with a team they’ve had to assemble from scratch to design and build it.
It seems what ever they were told to remove at Miami really was the key.
anyoldcardave said:
Were they running the car illegally to the rules? How long for?
Who knows ?They certainly had asymmetric braking in Melbourne, probably not intentionally though
- https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/13101004/m...Maxdecel said:
anyoldcardave said:
Were they running the car illegally to the rules? How long for?
Who knows ?They certainly had asymmetric braking in Melbourne, probably not intentionally though
- https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/13101004/m...Such a system would have to be actuated as result of wheel angle in normal operation to make sense, it would also be a very basic system that achieved that effect without relying on any dedicated components that would give the game away when inspected. Such a solution could 'get stuck', potentially, as it would need to be very crude in it's operation to not be obvious. Essentially it would have to be something that was actuated by a process that under inspection didn't appear to be doing anything deliberate or useful that would have an effect on brake bias.
As for legality, if they were doing anything like that it would essentially be a driver aid - they're banned. Hence, it would be cheating.
I think there can be little doubt that 'someone' was using such a system. There are only two reasons the FIA add something into the regs: a) to stop something they realised could be done, b) to stop something they became aware someone is already doing. Given it's unusual for there to be mid-season regs update, I strongly suspect the latter.
And I find it near impossible to not assume it was RBR that were benefitting, and upon discovery the system was removed immediately as an alternative to a formal investigation and subsequent penalty - which of course could have determined that the system was used before this season which opens a can of worms about this and previous seasons championship result. The FIA hate to even consider opening such cans of worms, they hate the idea of changing a championship result after the event. Far more likely they came to a deal with RBR to simply stop using such a system, and then moved to prevent copy-cats via the regs update.
In the end we can only speculate, as nothing concrete will come out about this now. I suppose the main thing, assuming I'm even half right about what RBR were doing, is that they're no longer doing it.
Like a football team you have to be rebuilding and bringing new talent through as players dont play forever.
Reb Bull must have a conveyor belt of talent in the car design and execution and are probably glad some people move on.
Williams for example won so much a while back and probably kept most of the people through frank w being loyal and confortable with his team of people.
They could put a car out but not really to challenge the front.
If he was ruthless like they say he would have shifted them very early. I reckon he was a lot softer than they make out.
Reb Bull must have a conveyor belt of talent in the car design and execution and are probably glad some people move on.
Williams for example won so much a while back and probably kept most of the people through frank w being loyal and confortable with his team of people.
They could put a car out but not really to challenge the front.
If he was ruthless like they say he would have shifted them very early. I reckon he was a lot softer than they make out.
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