Concern over the future.......
Discussion
BBC report:
“Formula 1's race organisers have expressed concerns over the future of the sport and demanded a more open approach from its owners.
The F1 Promoters' Association, which represents 16 of the 21 races on the calendar, say they want "a more collaborative approach from F1" in future.
They are worried about the loss of free-to-air television, a lack of clarity over rules and F1's attempts to attract new races.”
Too little, too late?
“Formula 1's race organisers have expressed concerns over the future of the sport and demanded a more open approach from its owners.
The F1 Promoters' Association, which represents 16 of the 21 races on the calendar, say they want "a more collaborative approach from F1" in future.
They are worried about the loss of free-to-air television, a lack of clarity over rules and F1's attempts to attract new races.”
Too little, too late?
REALIST123 said:
BBC report:
“Formula 1's race organisers have expressed concerns over the future of the sport and demanded a more open approach from its owners.
The F1 Promoters' Association, which represents 16 of the 21 races on the calendar, say they want "a more collaborative approach from F1" in future.
They are worried about the loss of free-to-air television, a lack of clarity over rules and F1's attempts to attract new races.”
Too little, too late?
Did you also see that there are rumors that F1 is up for sale again? Liberty media are apparently not seeing the returns expected.“Formula 1's race organisers have expressed concerns over the future of the sport and demanded a more open approach from its owners.
The F1 Promoters' Association, which represents 16 of the 21 races on the calendar, say they want "a more collaborative approach from F1" in future.
They are worried about the loss of free-to-air television, a lack of clarity over rules and F1's attempts to attract new races.”
Too little, too late?
At the very least they need to treat all the circuits the same. They can't give some a race on a profit share basis and then charge others millions for the privilege.
Unfortunately too many people think there is nothing wrong with pay TV for that side of it to change. I even heard a radio interview the other day where people were shocked that it was possible to watch TV without a Sky subscription....
Unfortunately too many people think there is nothing wrong with pay TV for that side of it to change. I even heard a radio interview the other day where people were shocked that it was possible to watch TV without a Sky subscription....
Kraken said:
At the very least they need to treat all the circuits the same. They can't give some a race on a profit share basis and then charge others millions for the privilege.
I think they can and I’ve argued for years that they should;Create a group of “Grand Prix” status events that the season should be based around and, if at all possible these events should be set in stone date wise.
These “historic” Grand Prix should imho receive favourable terms from the organisers with regards to sponsorship and other revenues to make money.
Then, you get another series of events who sign up to perhaps a five year running of events who pay more for the rights, limited trackside sponsorship etc etc.
Then you have a liberty media controlled rent-a-race where they fly in, supply a prefab pit lane and tv hosting all for a huge fee for your local despot, sultan or whoever who wants to flaunt his human rights atrocities for the highest price.
its not too late, but things need to be done soon. the way I see it
1) the new generation are after entertainment, not just a pure sport, hence the increase in extreme sports, esports etc. F1 needs to work out a way of increasing overtaking, making it more about the driver and less about engineering.
2) manufacturers need to listen to fans and give them what they want rather than what they think fans want. being the pinnacle of technology is great n all that, and it may sell a few cars, but do I really care about kers, ers etc unless it actually enhances the racing rather than hindering it..
3) the cars. they don't look great, sound crap and rely far too much on aero grip. need to solve this asap.
4) accessibility: cost to fans both on TV and at the track is too high. its ok to charge that price point aslong as its entertaining fans.....but its not.
5) cost. its a huge one, and not easy to solve. costs are way to high for engines, teams, fans etc. this is the biggest sticking point for me. to reduce costs you have to shed jobs, this requires new rules to make building the cars less labour intensive. it also increases the gap between those who have, and those who don't.
6) competitors. F1 is behind the times. other sports such as WEC, MotoGP, IMSA, Blancpain, IndyCar, Touring Cars are offering a better experience for fans both at the track in terms of quality of racing, price and at home through live FREE streams, or at worse paying for BT broadband to get access. if F1 doesn't solve the points above, its never going to resolve this.
All in all, am I concerned about the future of Formula 1? NO!.....why? because there are multiple replacements out there to take up my time. That's probably the most worrying sign.
1) the new generation are after entertainment, not just a pure sport, hence the increase in extreme sports, esports etc. F1 needs to work out a way of increasing overtaking, making it more about the driver and less about engineering.
2) manufacturers need to listen to fans and give them what they want rather than what they think fans want. being the pinnacle of technology is great n all that, and it may sell a few cars, but do I really care about kers, ers etc unless it actually enhances the racing rather than hindering it..
3) the cars. they don't look great, sound crap and rely far too much on aero grip. need to solve this asap.
4) accessibility: cost to fans both on TV and at the track is too high. its ok to charge that price point aslong as its entertaining fans.....but its not.
5) cost. its a huge one, and not easy to solve. costs are way to high for engines, teams, fans etc. this is the biggest sticking point for me. to reduce costs you have to shed jobs, this requires new rules to make building the cars less labour intensive. it also increases the gap between those who have, and those who don't.
6) competitors. F1 is behind the times. other sports such as WEC, MotoGP, IMSA, Blancpain, IndyCar, Touring Cars are offering a better experience for fans both at the track in terms of quality of racing, price and at home through live FREE streams, or at worse paying for BT broadband to get access. if F1 doesn't solve the points above, its never going to resolve this.
All in all, am I concerned about the future of Formula 1? NO!.....why? because there are multiple replacements out there to take up my time. That's probably the most worrying sign.
fatbutt said:
REALIST123 said:
BBC report:
“Formula 1's race organisers have expressed concerns over the future of the sport and demanded a more open approach from its owners.
The F1 Promoters' Association, which represents 16 of the 21 races on the calendar, say they want "a more collaborative approach from F1" in future.
They are worried about the loss of free-to-air television, a lack of clarity over rules and F1's attempts to attract new races.”
Too little, too late?
Did you also see that there are rumors that F1 is up for sale again? Liberty media are apparently not seeing the returns expected.“Formula 1's race organisers have expressed concerns over the future of the sport and demanded a more open approach from its owners.
The F1 Promoters' Association, which represents 16 of the 21 races on the calendar, say they want "a more collaborative approach from F1" in future.
They are worried about the loss of free-to-air television, a lack of clarity over rules and F1's attempts to attract new races.”
Too little, too late?
Muzzer79 said:
Mark Hughes (Autosport, SkyF1) has tweeted to claim that the rumours are concerning Liberty Global who own Formula E, not Liberty Media, who own F1.
This is where I saw it: https://jalopnik.com/formula-one-might-be-for-sale...37chevy said:
its not too late, but things need to be done soon. the way I see it
1) the new generation are after entertainment, not just a pure sport, hence the increase in extreme sports, esports etc. F1 needs to work out a way of increasing overtaking, making it more about the driver and less about engineering.
...
3) the cars. they don't look great, sound crap and rely far too much on aero grip. need to solve this asap.
...
Aero is the big issue with F1. There is no close overtaking as the cars cannot get (and remain) close enough as it screws the aero which in turn destroys the tyres. As much as I like Adrian Newey as an engineer, he's the villain of the piece in my opinion. You can't put a genie back in its bottle and aero certainly makes the cars quicker but you might as well be watching scaletrix.1) the new generation are after entertainment, not just a pure sport, hence the increase in extreme sports, esports etc. F1 needs to work out a way of increasing overtaking, making it more about the driver and less about engineering.
...
3) the cars. they don't look great, sound crap and rely far too much on aero grip. need to solve this asap.
...
fatbutt said:
37chevy said:
its not too late, but things need to be done soon. the way I see it
1) the new generation are after entertainment, not just a pure sport, hence the increase in extreme sports, esports etc. F1 needs to work out a way of increasing overtaking, making it more about the driver and less about engineering.
...
3) the cars. they don't look great, sound crap and rely far too much on aero grip. need to solve this asap.
...
Aero is the big issue with F1. There is no close overtaking as the cars cannot get (and remain) close enough as it screws the aero which in turn destroys the tyres. As much as I like Adrian Newey as an engineer, he's the villain of the piece in my opinion. You can't put a genie back in its bottle and aero certainly makes the cars quicker but you might as well be watching scaletrix.1) the new generation are after entertainment, not just a pure sport, hence the increase in extreme sports, esports etc. F1 needs to work out a way of increasing overtaking, making it more about the driver and less about engineering.
...
3) the cars. they don't look great, sound crap and rely far too much on aero grip. need to solve this asap.
...
It's all very well having highlights on C4, but the results are vomited all over the internet as soon as the race has finished, so much so it's difficult to avoid them - and its far less interesting watching it when you already know who's going to win.
fatbutt said:
Aero is the big issue with F1. There is no close overtaking as the cars cannot get (and remain) close enough as it screws the aero which in turn destroys the tyres. As much as I like Adrian Newey as an engineer, he's the villain of the piece in my opinion. You can't put a genie back in its bottle and aero certainly makes the cars quicker but you might as well be watching scaletrix.
The only way you’ll solve it is heavily restrict the number of elements on wings etc and allow the underside of the car to be free for development. 37chevy said:
fatbutt said:
Aero is the big issue with F1. There is no close overtaking as the cars cannot get (and remain) close enough as it screws the aero which in turn destroys the tyres. As much as I like Adrian Newey as an engineer, he's the villain of the piece in my opinion. You can't put a genie back in its bottle and aero certainly makes the cars quicker but you might as well be watching scaletrix.
The only way you’ll solve it is heavily restrict the number of elements on wings etc and allow the underside of the car to be free for development. 37chevy said:
its not too late, but things need to be done soon. the way I see it
1) the new generation are after entertainment, not just a pure sport, hence the increase in extreme sports, esports etc. F1 needs to work out a way of increasing overtaking, making it more about the driver and less about engineering.
2) manufacturers need to listen to fans and give them what they want rather than what they think fans want. being the pinnacle of technology is great n all that, and it may sell a few cars, but do I really care about kers, ers etc unless it actually enhances the racing rather than hindering it..
3) the cars. they don't look great, sound crap and rely far too much on aero grip. need to solve this asap.
4) accessibility: cost to fans both on TV and at the track is too high. its ok to charge that price point aslong as its entertaining fans.....but its not.
5) cost. its a huge one, and not easy to solve. costs are way to high for engines, teams, fans etc. this is the biggest sticking point for me. to reduce costs you have to shed jobs, this requires new rules to make building the cars less labour intensive. it also increases the gap between those who have, and those who don't.
6) competitors. F1 is behind the times. other sports such as WEC, MotoGP, IMSA, Blancpain, IndyCar, Touring Cars are offering a better experience for fans both at the track in terms of quality of racing, price and at home through live FREE streams, or at worse paying for BT broadband to get access. if F1 doesn't solve the points above, its never going to resolve this.
All in all, am I concerned about the future of Formula 1? NO!.....why? because there are multiple replacements out there to take up my time. That's probably the most worrying sign.
I agree with all of that 1) the new generation are after entertainment, not just a pure sport, hence the increase in extreme sports, esports etc. F1 needs to work out a way of increasing overtaking, making it more about the driver and less about engineering.
2) manufacturers need to listen to fans and give them what they want rather than what they think fans want. being the pinnacle of technology is great n all that, and it may sell a few cars, but do I really care about kers, ers etc unless it actually enhances the racing rather than hindering it..
3) the cars. they don't look great, sound crap and rely far too much on aero grip. need to solve this asap.
4) accessibility: cost to fans both on TV and at the track is too high. its ok to charge that price point aslong as its entertaining fans.....but its not.
5) cost. its a huge one, and not easy to solve. costs are way to high for engines, teams, fans etc. this is the biggest sticking point for me. to reduce costs you have to shed jobs, this requires new rules to make building the cars less labour intensive. it also increases the gap between those who have, and those who don't.
6) competitors. F1 is behind the times. other sports such as WEC, MotoGP, IMSA, Blancpain, IndyCar, Touring Cars are offering a better experience for fans both at the track in terms of quality of racing, price and at home through live FREE streams, or at worse paying for BT broadband to get access. if F1 doesn't solve the points above, its never going to resolve this.
All in all, am I concerned about the future of Formula 1? NO!.....why? because there are multiple replacements out there to take up my time. That's probably the most worrying sign.
Except free live streaming.If Premiership football and UFC can make paywalls work well, so can F1.
I am all for some FTA coverage though
Matthen said:
I disagree - the biggest problem is that the races are going to be behind a paywall. It doesn't matter if rule changes make it the most nail-biting, edge of seat stuff, with hundreds of overtakes a race, unless it's live on FTA TV, new viewers aren't going to become interested, the ratings will not improve, and eventually it'll die out.
It's all very well having highlights on C4, but the results are vomited all over the internet as soon as the race has finished, so much so it's difficult to avoid them - and its far less interesting watching it when you already know who's going to win.
Very true from an income perspective. But who's going to watch a high speed procession whether its free or not?It's all very well having highlights on C4, but the results are vomited all over the internet as soon as the race has finished, so much so it's difficult to avoid them - and its far less interesting watching it when you already know who's going to win.
37chevy said:
Muzzer79 said:
Mark Hughes (Autosport, SkyF1) has tweeted to claim that the rumours are concerning Liberty Global who own Formula E, not Liberty Media, who own F1.
Where’s the tweet? Can only see the one he posted about F1Matthen said:
fatbutt said:
37chevy said:
its not too late, but things need to be done soon. the way I see it
1) the new generation are after entertainment, not just a pure sport, hence the increase in extreme sports, esports etc. F1 needs to work out a way of increasing overtaking, making it more about the driver and less about engineering.
...
3) the cars. they don't look great, sound crap and rely far too much on aero grip. need to solve this asap.
...
Aero is the big issue with F1. There is no close overtaking as the cars cannot get (and remain) close enough as it screws the aero which in turn destroys the tyres. As much as I like Adrian Newey as an engineer, he's the villain of the piece in my opinion. You can't put a genie back in its bottle and aero certainly makes the cars quicker but you might as well be watching scaletrix.1) the new generation are after entertainment, not just a pure sport, hence the increase in extreme sports, esports etc. F1 needs to work out a way of increasing overtaking, making it more about the driver and less about engineering.
...
3) the cars. they don't look great, sound crap and rely far too much on aero grip. need to solve this asap.
...
It's all very well having highlights on C4, but the results are vomited all over the internet as soon as the race has finished, so much so it's difficult to avoid them - and its far less interesting watching it when you already know who's going to win.
Match of the Day shows highlights of the Premier League, having had the results vomited all over the internet with much more publicity, yet still attracts a huge audience for the time of day it is shown on.
If the product is good enough, people will watch it and pay to watch it.
F1's problem is it's trying to milk from everyone - teams, promoters, TV - without giving much back.
They should make races economical for promoters, in places where viewers want to see them
Teams should be profitable but controlled in spending - owning an F1 team should be a viable business, not a rich man's folly.
TV rights should therefore bring in much of the revenue but it will only do that if the product is exciting.
F1 knows that at the moment, it has a boring product that only nerds like us want to watch, therefore it has to bring in revenue from all areas.
LaurasOtherHalf said:
I think they can and I’ve argued for years that they should;
Create a group of “Grand Prix” status events that the season should be based around and, if at all possible these events should be set in stone date wise.
.
If it was that way around then maybe but it's the new proposed GP's they are giving profit share deals to and the historical ones that are having to give up the rights because they can't make it pay.Create a group of “Grand Prix” status events that the season should be based around and, if at all possible these events should be set in stone date wise.
.
Muzzer79 said:
Football has been behind a paywall for over 20 years and has only grown.
Match of the Day shows highlights of the Premier League, having had the results vomited all over the internet with much more publicity, yet still attracts a huge audience for the time of day it is shown on.
If the product is good enough, people will watch it and pay to watch it.
F1's problem is it's trying to milk from everyone - teams, promoters, TV - without giving much back.
They should make races economical for promoters, in places where viewers want to see them
Teams should be profitable but controlled in spending - owning an F1 team should be a viable business, not a rich man's folly.
TV rights should therefore bring in much of the revenue but it will only do that if the product is exciting.
F1 knows that at the moment, it has a boring product that only nerds like us want to watch, therefore it has to bring in revenue from all areas.
And top football teams aren't rich mans follys?Match of the Day shows highlights of the Premier League, having had the results vomited all over the internet with much more publicity, yet still attracts a huge audience for the time of day it is shown on.
If the product is good enough, people will watch it and pay to watch it.
F1's problem is it's trying to milk from everyone - teams, promoters, TV - without giving much back.
They should make races economical for promoters, in places where viewers want to see them
Teams should be profitable but controlled in spending - owning an F1 team should be a viable business, not a rich man's folly.
TV rights should therefore bring in much of the revenue but it will only do that if the product is exciting.
F1 knows that at the moment, it has a boring product that only nerds like us want to watch, therefore it has to bring in revenue from all areas.
Biggest issue with F1 is the insane amounts of money it needs to operate. That can never be generated from the fan base of the sport in the way that football does.
Also, of course, there is a massive difference between hosting football matches and hosting a GP.
Lastly, and most controversially, I think there is a strong correlation between the type of person who pays for Sky TV and likes watching football. I like to think the average motorsport fan is a bit more switched on when it comes to value for money and knowing when they're being ripped off.
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