What has happened to Ferrari's speed advantage?
Discussion
For most of 2018 Ferrari have had a speed advantage over Mercedes.
This was clearly seen at Spa and yet at the following race at Monza that speed advantage had not only disappeared but seemed to have swung the other way to Mercedes.
At the time there were theories about Ferrari being able to harvest more electrical power and the legality of this was called into question only for Ferrari to be given a clean bill of health by the FIA.
Where has the advantage gone, have Mercedes worked out how to do the same?
Did Ferrari gain an unfair advantage and knew they were about to be rumbled by the FIA so had to ditch the technique?
Is it just exceptional hard work by Mercedes who have brought together a load of small mods that work well together?
This was clearly seen at Spa and yet at the following race at Monza that speed advantage had not only disappeared but seemed to have swung the other way to Mercedes.
At the time there were theories about Ferrari being able to harvest more electrical power and the legality of this was called into question only for Ferrari to be given a clean bill of health by the FIA.
Where has the advantage gone, have Mercedes worked out how to do the same?
Did Ferrari gain an unfair advantage and knew they were about to be rumbled by the FIA so had to ditch the technique?
Is it just exceptional hard work by Mercedes who have brought together a load of small mods that work well together?
Gameface said:
Dunno.
Quality answer !Anyway, I was thinking the same. Have Ferrari been told behind closed doors that their system is questionable and have removed it before it's banned. This would be odd after it was given the OK but could explain why it's all gone quiet, maybe a quiet word has been given.
Or merc have now come up with their own version.
Posted in the Russian GP thread, but reproduced here as it is topical:
I'm not sure there is any one thing or reason. I think with in-season development their car has moved into a situation that Mercedes were in earlier this season (and some of last) where its operating window has narrowed and this is why you are seeing a somewhat strange tyre choice from them at certain GPs. Additionally the car is quite different to last season's, more so than people realised, and while it is expected to go well on some tracks it doesn't whereas others where it was expected to defer to the Merc it didn't.
I also feel that Mercedes are just once again winning the development war throughout the season. Their car also seems to be getting easier to unlock its full potential in contrast to the Ferrari.
Merc also have a driver that is in full 100% confidence in his abilities whereas Vettel seems to be lacking that right now, he looks like a beaten man. Remember driving for Ferrari is not like driving for any other team.... you have half of Italy watching your every move.... his treatment in the Italian press after Monza was pretty hostile.... it has to have an effect.
Vettel is a great driver, you don't win 4 WCs by being merely good despite what machinery you are given. His problem is he is up against one of the all time greats (ask anyone suitably qualified in F1 and they will agree) at the peak of his powers.... like Mansell had Senna and Prost to contend with, Vettel has Hamilton (and should have had Alonso)... this happens in F1 and timing can play such a huge part in a career.
Vettel will be back, but he needs Ferrari and Italy to get properly behind him.
I'm not sure there is any one thing or reason. I think with in-season development their car has moved into a situation that Mercedes were in earlier this season (and some of last) where its operating window has narrowed and this is why you are seeing a somewhat strange tyre choice from them at certain GPs. Additionally the car is quite different to last season's, more so than people realised, and while it is expected to go well on some tracks it doesn't whereas others where it was expected to defer to the Merc it didn't.
I also feel that Mercedes are just once again winning the development war throughout the season. Their car also seems to be getting easier to unlock its full potential in contrast to the Ferrari.
Merc also have a driver that is in full 100% confidence in his abilities whereas Vettel seems to be lacking that right now, he looks like a beaten man. Remember driving for Ferrari is not like driving for any other team.... you have half of Italy watching your every move.... his treatment in the Italian press after Monza was pretty hostile.... it has to have an effect.
Vettel is a great driver, you don't win 4 WCs by being merely good despite what machinery you are given. His problem is he is up against one of the all time greats (ask anyone suitably qualified in F1 and they will agree) at the peak of his powers.... like Mansell had Senna and Prost to contend with, Vettel has Hamilton (and should have had Alonso)... this happens in F1 and timing can play such a huge part in a career.
Vettel will be back, but he needs Ferrari and Italy to get properly behind him.
sandman77 said:
I cant remember if it is was SKY or Ch4 yesterday that mentioned that the smoke/vapour that has been seen coming out of the rear of the Ferrari all season hasn't been evident at the last few GP's. Could this have something do with there recent lack of pace (compared to Mercedes)?
It was DC on CH4, he seemed to know more than he was letting on, mentioned it a couple of times.Maybe Ferrari did have a reason to try and obscure 'that' button?
Vettel's 'oil burner' days may be behind him now
I recall Hamilton's car gave out a big belch of smoke as it pulled away on the warm up lap (?) which was picked up by the C4 commentators.
Personally I suspect the performance differentials are mostly in the tyres and how the drivers and cars manage them. Which is a shame, as they are basically just big round black things and by far the least exciting aspect of the sport. And people like us haven't got a clue what is actually going on.
Personally I suspect the performance differentials are mostly in the tyres and how the drivers and cars manage them. Which is a shame, as they are basically just big round black things and by far the least exciting aspect of the sport. And people like us haven't got a clue what is actually going on.
Roofless Toothless said:
I recall Hamilton's car gave out a big belch of smoke as it pulled away on the warm up lap (?) which was picked up by the C4 commentators.
Personally I suspect the performance differentials are mostly in the tyres and how the drivers and cars manage them. Which is a shame, as they are basically just big round black things and by far the least exciting aspect of the sport. And people like us haven't got a clue what is actually going on.
I recall Botta's helmet giving off a belch of smoke on lap 28 Personally I suspect the performance differentials are mostly in the tyres and how the drivers and cars manage them. Which is a shame, as they are basically just big round black things and by far the least exciting aspect of the sport. And people like us haven't got a clue what is actually going on.
Bright Halo said:
For most of 2018 Ferrari have had a speed advantage over Mercedes.
This was clearly seen at Spa and yet at the following race at Monza that speed advantage had not only disappeared but seemed to have swung the other way to Mercedes.
At the time there were theories about Ferrari being able to harvest more electrical power and the legality of this was called into question only for Ferrari to be given a clean bill of health by the FIA.
Where has the advantage gone, have Mercedes worked out how to do the same?
Did Ferrari gain an unfair advantage and knew they were about to be rumbled by the FIA so had to ditch the technique?
Is it just exceptional hard work by Mercedes who have brought together a load of small mods that work well together?
I think this is the imponderable of this season.This was clearly seen at Spa and yet at the following race at Monza that speed advantage had not only disappeared but seemed to have swung the other way to Mercedes.
At the time there were theories about Ferrari being able to harvest more electrical power and the legality of this was called into question only for Ferrari to be given a clean bill of health by the FIA.
Where has the advantage gone, have Mercedes worked out how to do the same?
Did Ferrari gain an unfair advantage and knew they were about to be rumbled by the FIA so had to ditch the technique?
Is it just exceptional hard work by Mercedes who have brought together a load of small mods that work well together?
At the end of each season, it would be good if someone like Richard Allinson, or Charlie would give the media a technical debrief of what went on behind the scenes during the year.
It is really an intellectual property race, but hardly anything significant is ever mentioned. Other than turning vanes that are fairly obvious to the regular camera guys / Sutton Images.
It was media hype.
According to the numbers Ferrari didn't have a power advantage
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/the-numbers-tha...
According to the numbers Ferrari didn't have a power advantage
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/the-numbers-tha...
They seemed obsessed with putting ice on the camera so the logical conclusion is is was some sort of extra intercooler for the turbo and was getting hot while stationary in the garage.
The other teams probably pointed a thermal camera at the car but some unexplained masking technology hid
the evidence.
The other teams probably pointed a thermal camera at the car but some unexplained masking technology hid
the evidence.
turbomoped said:
They seemed obsessed with putting ice on the camera so the logical conclusion is is was some sort of extra intercooler for the turbo and was getting hot while stationary in the garage.
The other teams probably pointed a thermal camera at the car but some unexplained masking technology hid
the evidence.
I thought that was just one of those tinfoil hat theories that Ted Kravitz comes up with and the reason why they cover the cameras is to stop FOM from recording when they shouldn't - they did that once when the car was stripped of bodywork and it'd upset Ferrari.The other teams probably pointed a thermal camera at the car but some unexplained masking technology hid
the evidence.
Whatever it was making them quick has been removed, maybe just maybe the FIA have been digging even further into the battery pack thing and Ferrari thought they were getting close to cracking the legality of it and thought better of it, I mean look at it this way - they've had it(the speed) all season so if the FIA finally know enough to deem it illegal then Ferrari could risk being disqualified from the 2018 championship seeing as they've run it since the beginning, so they remove it to save face.
Twisting the theory even more maybe the FIA have finally said its illegal, take it off now and we let you keep your championship points, go against that and we'll DQ you from the season
Just my theory thats all
Twisting the theory even more maybe the FIA have finally said its illegal, take it off now and we let you keep your championship points, go against that and we'll DQ you from the season
Just my theory thats all
I heard somewhere that Merc made a change to their rear brake ducts for Singapore, improving tyre operating window temperature management and better braking stability amongst probably a few other things.
I can't see that making a 0.6s - 1.0s swing in speed though so I call BS on that.
I can't see that making a 0.6s - 1.0s swing in speed though so I call BS on that.
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