Help me like Vettel again!
Discussion
So after many years of F1 watching, and I'm not even the biggest fan ever kinda, just enjoy the odd decent race.
Anyway, I've always just enjoyed the racing, never a 100% supporter of a particular team or driver... Generally supporting the the underdog or the interesting driver, so Riccardo and Verstappen are both providing some good action, generally having to work for their money. Bottas in the Williams was great to see... Hamilton is genuinely a remarkable talent, even if a bit of a prima Donna.
Vettel however, he's always had this slight duplicity and came across all jovial and joking but really very ruthless... Then after swearing at the race director (kinda bad, kinda weird) and deliberately ramming into Hamilton under the safety car last year I just can't seem to get over it, and really can't support him in any way.
So when he crashed on Sunday I did think that was great, as I'd really not want to see him win another WDC.
What would make me see him in a neutral light again?
Anyway, I've always just enjoyed the racing, never a 100% supporter of a particular team or driver... Generally supporting the the underdog or the interesting driver, so Riccardo and Verstappen are both providing some good action, generally having to work for their money. Bottas in the Williams was great to see... Hamilton is genuinely a remarkable talent, even if a bit of a prima Donna.
Vettel however, he's always had this slight duplicity and came across all jovial and joking but really very ruthless... Then after swearing at the race director (kinda bad, kinda weird) and deliberately ramming into Hamilton under the safety car last year I just can't seem to get over it, and really can't support him in any way.
So when he crashed on Sunday I did think that was great, as I'd really not want to see him win another WDC.
What would make me see him in a neutral light again?
They are all ruthless. It seems unreasonable to dislike him for that reason.
He can be a bit of an idiot. Deliberately driving into Hamilton last season irritated me, but probably not as much as it irritated Hamilton, but I got over it.
He's not exciting to watch, not like Hamilton, Verstappen and Ricciardo. His comment over the air at Silverstone was a bit naff, but then he was bitten on Sunday.
I think, though, there are a few other drivers I'd put at my 'not particularly inspiring' list above him.
He can be a bit of an idiot. Deliberately driving into Hamilton last season irritated me, but probably not as much as it irritated Hamilton, but I got over it.
He's not exciting to watch, not like Hamilton, Verstappen and Ricciardo. His comment over the air at Silverstone was a bit naff, but then he was bitten on Sunday.
I think, though, there are a few other drivers I'd put at my 'not particularly inspiring' list above him.
ghost83 said:
I hated him at red bull but since he joined Ferrari he’s had to show some grit and determination and I’ve warmed to him
I agree, and he has a good sense of humour too.He loses his cool/dignity every now and again - but is better these days, and otherwise he is the driver most driven and dedicated to the cause. Lewis feels like he has more distractions and is more into the celebrity status.
cheddar said:
Sunday was a rare gaff.
He's scalpel sharp, very fast and a thinker.
It's easy to be an armchair critic but every single F1 driver is a genius behind the wheel - yes Pastor, even you were - some are that bit more genius though, Vettel's one of those.
I like him.
Pretty much my thinking too.He's scalpel sharp, very fast and a thinker.
It's easy to be an armchair critic but every single F1 driver is a genius behind the wheel - yes Pastor, even you were - some are that bit more genius though, Vettel's one of those.
I like him.
Unless anything has changed recently, I recall reading that he doesn't enjoy much support in Germany to the level Lewis does in the UK.
Vettel is great. He’s got a sense of humour, he is a grafter, he has had the sense to avoid social media despite it’s temptations, he’s not an attention w
e, he’s cheeky sometimes, angry other times, sometimes emotional...
I kind of hated him during the Red Bull years but I think he’s come a long way.
e, he’s cheeky sometimes, angry other times, sometimes emotional... I kind of hated him during the Red Bull years but I think he’s come a long way.
StevieBee said:
Unless anything has changed recently, I recall reading that he doesn't enjoy much support in Germany to the level Lewis does in the UK.
I'm sure I read that somewhere too, and yet once he put the Ferrari on pole on Saturday the circuit opened up another grandstand and sold a load more tickets! I doubt they were snapped up by Hulkenburg fans! StevieBee said:
cheddar said:
Sunday was a rare gaff.
He's scalpel sharp, very fast and a thinker.
It's easy to be an armchair critic but every single F1 driver is a genius behind the wheel - yes Pastor, even you were - some are that bit more genius though, Vettel's one of those.
I like him.
Pretty much my thinking too.He's scalpel sharp, very fast and a thinker.
It's easy to be an armchair critic but every single F1 driver is a genius behind the wheel - yes Pastor, even you were - some are that bit more genius though, Vettel's one of those.
I like him.
Would also append with what Derek said, “they’re all ruthless”. You wouldn’t expect anything less from people competing in the top echelon of anything.
From what I see of Vettel (& Kimi for that matter), both parents, they’ve got more balance than F1 alone having achieved already. The emotions I think they display are authentic. Kimi I bet feels complete as a human and with neither having monster egos looking to be brand stars. It raises EQ levels. Vettel a few days after a race always has an easy smile and he’s a low maintenance guy. Grown ups basically!
Hamilton - no point discussing him, as sadly people can’t think neutrally, go tribal and just descends fast.
Digressing on Rosberg a minute...when he gave everything to win in ‘16, I applauded it as an example of an athlete looking deep and determining himself to go the maximum. His mental win was a sports story instelf. He then drops out and says he’s done it, great I thought. Next chapter, I hoped, a smart, determined guy, family, with likely some other significant interests that he’d be concentrating all that desire into.
But nothing. He’s been quick to launch his tone deaf YouTube video highlighting his day, instagramming his empty life, then he’s back as some loose end at the Sky Tent knocking around with Button who’s going to enjoy running around with a microphone. He won the title. What validation does an intelligent man need from kids commentating on his lifestyle? Why doesn’t he go off and do something valuable with his wealth not just sit there grinning on the tv.
He’s been a letdown for me, as it seems for all his undoubted intelligence and latent character, setting ambitions as a YouTube star and grinning with a microphone, seems to me a bit below his status as one of the few.
Driven people like Scheckter, Jones, Reutemann, were after Sport was done, eager enough to compete in other spheres, politics, organic farming etc, and be very successful. And you can bet whatever you want that a Senna, Schumacher, Prost, or Hamilton, Vettel and Alonso wouldn’t be seen dead running around a grid at the end of their careers begging if they “could have a few words” off some 19 tyro too cool to look up and engage eye to eye. A guy who was top doesn’t run after a 19yo asking s
te questions acting as a cub reporter. It’s demeaning.LaurasOtherHalf said:
Glad you’re back posting again tigerkoi.
My wife says it best, “vettel’s great when he’s not winning, but as soon as he does he turns into the complete ahole again”.
Thank you! Very kind My wife says it best, “vettel’s great when he’s not winning, but as soon as he does he turns into the complete a
hole again”.
An ex and I watched Raikkonen after a race, few years back now. She’s Norwegian. He blathered about something completely indecipherable. I said to her, “wow, did you hear what he just said!!?!” ‘Nooo, I couldn’t work it out, tell me tell me’. I did the DVR rewind like three times, all along teasing her, until she cottonned on I was fooling around.
“Darling, no one in the world understands anything he’s [i]ever[/] said!”
Seb has not covered himself in glory on the circuit in the last few years, and has lost his head under pressure- but it's not unknown in any form of sport for even the most docile people to snap.
Off the track his demeanour is pure nice guy, there's no ego baggage or (as has been mentioned) attention whoring. When he's chilled out he comes across as a guy totally at ease with his surroundings.
He also (IMO) has the best sense of humour on the grid since JB retired, quite a British style in his ability to be comically cynical, dour but also completely light hearted according to the situation- just look at his ability to provide an entertaining interview in the company of Brit pundits.
I don't have the time to trawl YouTube right now for examples, but there have been plenty of press conferences where he's lifted the whole room with a cleverly timed quip- 'he didn't listen! Can you repeat the question?' being a personal favourite that had me in stitches.
I also get the impression that he has a great respect and understanding of the history of the sport and is grateful for his place on the grid, which is a trait I think anybody earning millions to drive race cars should openly display for us mere mortals who go to sleep dreaming of being in their shoes. I remember when LH surpassed a Jim Clark record (I can't remember what for) and made an attempt to reference it in the post-race conference, completely butchering it until SV stepped in to correct him. Seeing the German having to remind the Brit what Jim Clark's name was prompted a huge swing of respect for me between the two drivers!
Before I get jumped on, I have huge respect for Hamilton too- as a racing driver. Truly an immense talent and a privilege to watch- not to mention that he's shown himself to be far cooler under pressure than SV. But as a personality- he's the antithesis of everything that makes Seb likeable, and very difficult not to find antagonising.
For the record, I support neither driver- only the British teams since JB retired, and that's not been easy going!
Off the track his demeanour is pure nice guy, there's no ego baggage or (as has been mentioned) attention whoring. When he's chilled out he comes across as a guy totally at ease with his surroundings.
He also (IMO) has the best sense of humour on the grid since JB retired, quite a British style in his ability to be comically cynical, dour but also completely light hearted according to the situation- just look at his ability to provide an entertaining interview in the company of Brit pundits.
I don't have the time to trawl YouTube right now for examples, but there have been plenty of press conferences where he's lifted the whole room with a cleverly timed quip- 'he didn't listen! Can you repeat the question?' being a personal favourite that had me in stitches.
I also get the impression that he has a great respect and understanding of the history of the sport and is grateful for his place on the grid, which is a trait I think anybody earning millions to drive race cars should openly display for us mere mortals who go to sleep dreaming of being in their shoes. I remember when LH surpassed a Jim Clark record (I can't remember what for) and made an attempt to reference it in the post-race conference, completely butchering it until SV stepped in to correct him. Seeing the German having to remind the Brit what Jim Clark's name was prompted a huge swing of respect for me between the two drivers!
Before I get jumped on, I have huge respect for Hamilton too- as a racing driver. Truly an immense talent and a privilege to watch- not to mention that he's shown himself to be far cooler under pressure than SV. But as a personality- he's the antithesis of everything that makes Seb likeable, and very difficult not to find antagonising.
For the record, I support neither driver- only the British teams since JB retired, and that's not been easy going!
Some of the RB times were difficult. He’s a very good driver, but there was too much arrogance and I guess that came with so much early success. We all think Lewis is arrogant but then we have thanking God stuff on Sunday - effectively crediting God with his pretty special victory?
I don’t know if I should say ‘I like’ them both, as they are both lunatics and both do / say things that are just bonkers. But I do really enjoy having them both in F1. Seb’s rant at Charlie - I understand how he felt, it was unprofessional, but he just lost his st, looking back it was funny, it’s not like he punched a marshal or something. Driving into Lewis - again, what was he thinking, Lewis’s radio message, the amazement in his voice, the whole thing was bonkers.
His “Ratatatatat tat” etc has been winding me up But on Sunday we heard him cry, he was utterly devastated. I can’t say if it’s more or less annoying than “love conquers all”. They’re on an emotional roller coaster and they aren’t always in balance but they always have a microphone in their face.... Seb adds a lot to the sport but he’s prone to tantrums, same as Lewis, it’s just the tantrums are different. I have little doubt we’d see similar in DR or anyone else once they are in a position where they are expected to bring the title home.
I don’t know if I should say ‘I like’ them both, as they are both lunatics and both do / say things that are just bonkers. But I do really enjoy having them both in F1. Seb’s rant at Charlie - I understand how he felt, it was unprofessional, but he just lost his s
t, looking back it was funny, it’s not like he punched a marshal or something. Driving into Lewis - again, what was he thinking, Lewis’s radio message, the amazement in his voice, the whole thing was bonkers.His “Ratatatatat tat” etc has been winding me up But on Sunday we heard him cry, he was utterly devastated. I can’t say if it’s more or less annoying than “love conquers all”. They’re on an emotional roller coaster and they aren’t always in balance but they always have a microphone in their face.... Seb adds a lot to the sport but he’s prone to tantrums, same as Lewis, it’s just the tantrums are different. I have little doubt we’d see similar in DR or anyone else once they are in a position where they are expected to bring the title home.
OP, if you [want to] like the guy, you will look past the flaws. If you don't [want to] like the guy, the flaws are all you will see.
If you go in to the Lewis Hamilton thread you will note that a lot of his fans will suggest focusing on his driving rather than his comments/off track persona. They say, he's fast and an awesome racer, isn't that all you [should] want?
I will say the same to you. I don't think I have followed any one driver with such emotional investment and passion as Button, but you know I also like to follow the underdogs. So Merc=dominant, support whoever is trying to dethrone them. RBR=dominant, support whoever is trying to dethrone them. Hamilton=dominant, support whoever is trying to beat him.
Of all the drivers on the current grid, I think Bottas comes close to the kind of racer Button was, although different in the driving style...his response to the TO last weekend was amazing and I found quite endearing - "Copy James". I understand what it would have taken to curb his instincts and defer to the requests of the team. I also like these kind of racers would love to see him do well. At the same time, I also doubt Button (or indeed Hamilton) would have accepted the TO.
If you go in to the Lewis Hamilton thread you will note that a lot of his fans will suggest focusing on his driving rather than his comments/off track persona. They say, he's fast and an awesome racer, isn't that all you [should] want?
I will say the same to you. I don't think I have followed any one driver with such emotional investment and passion as Button, but you know I also like to follow the underdogs. So Merc=dominant, support whoever is trying to dethrone them. RBR=dominant, support whoever is trying to dethrone them. Hamilton=dominant, support whoever is trying to beat him.
Of all the drivers on the current grid, I think Bottas comes close to the kind of racer Button was, although different in the driving style...his response to the TO last weekend was amazing and I found quite endearing - "Copy James". I understand what it would have taken to curb his instincts and defer to the requests of the team. I also like these kind of racers would love to see him do well. At the same time, I also doubt Button (or indeed Hamilton) would have accepted the TO.
Vettel is made from the same stuff as Schumacher, at least when it comes to his personality: a really nice guy off track, has sense of humour, and is an understated family man. Quite likeable. At the same time, he is ruthless and wants to win at all costs when on track. But all great champions were like that. There are very few exceptions of great champions who were also gentlemen (Hakkinen), the rest all have their moments of brutal on-track action, and sense of self-entitlement.
Similarly to others, I didn't like him too much at Red Bull, but it looks like since he's at Ferrari some of that arrogance is gone, and he's showing a true fighting spirit. When he's in the lead, he is very strong (last Sunday was a rare mistake), but he's also shown some good racecraft. He's definitely not one of my all-time favourites, but from the drivers in the title fight, he is the easiest one to be a supporter of, so I'm crossing my fingers for him.
Similarly to others, I didn't like him too much at Red Bull, but it looks like since he's at Ferrari some of that arrogance is gone, and he's showing a true fighting spirit. When he's in the lead, he is very strong (last Sunday was a rare mistake), but he's also shown some good racecraft. He's definitely not one of my all-time favourites, but from the drivers in the title fight, he is the easiest one to be a supporter of, so I'm crossing my fingers for him.
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