Halo progression?
Discussion
the Halo has obviously divided opinion on how it looks over what safety benefits it offers.
I am wondering about it has any negative aerodynamic effect, and whether the natural progression would be a closed canopy to offer rollover safety but also improve the aerodynamics.
I am aware, however, that streamlining is less relevant in F1 than aero for downforce and handling, but I wonder what benefit there might be.
I am wondering about it has any negative aerodynamic effect, and whether the natural progression would be a closed canopy to offer rollover safety but also improve the aerodynamics.
I am aware, however, that streamlining is less relevant in F1 than aero for downforce and handling, but I wonder what benefit there might be.
feef said:
the Halo has obviously divided opinion on how it looks over what safety benefits it offers.
I am wondering about it has any negative aerodynamic effect, and whether the natural progression would be a closed canopy to offer rollover safety but also improve the aerodynamics.
I am aware, however, that streamlining is less relevant in F1 than aero for downforce and handling, but I wonder what benefit there might be.
Not sure about the negative aerodynamic effects "as their is bound to be some" but the struggle it takes for a driver to exit the car is a huge concern.I am wondering about it has any negative aerodynamic effect, and whether the natural progression would be a closed canopy to offer rollover safety but also improve the aerodynamics.
I am aware, however, that streamlining is less relevant in F1 than aero for downforce and handling, but I wonder what benefit there might be.
It is hard enough when the car is the right way up without the car being at a difficult angle.
If a driver is trapped with the recovery team need to cut through the "halo" to extract the driver in a safe manor?
Before the "halo"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHGVai_4tpI
R8Steve said:
ELUSIVEJIM said:
It is hard enough when the car is the right way up without the car being at a difficult angle.
I'd rather be upside down in an F1 car with a halo than without.To be honest, a F1 car without a halo, upside down is going to be hard to get out of anyway.
ELUSIVEJIM said:
Why not just make the halo removable as well then? I'm sure they could have some kind of design that clips in/out.Eric Mc said:
It was discussing it's looks as opposed to it's safety advantages/disadvantages perhaps?R8Steve said:
It was discussing it's looks as opposed to it's safety advantages/disadvantages perhaps?
Nothing to stop people discussing all aspects of the halo on that thread without starting another thread on the same topic.I'm sure there was a thread where all the various pros and cons were being discussed - not just its looks.
R8Steve said:
I'd rather be upside down in an F1 car with a halo than without.
Why? The rules are as such that the drivers head has to be below an imaginary line between the nose and air box so their head doesn’t touch the ground on impact. How many drivers have you seen been injured in recent times from roll overs? I’d be more concerned as a driver about how difficult it is to extract myself from a car WITH a halo when upside downPersonally I think if they’re going to go down this route then they should have a full canopy with sealed off driver cell (like in powerboat racing) so if there’s an accident and the car rolls then there is no danger from fire etc
37chevy said:
R8Steve said:
I'd rather be upside down in an F1 car with a halo than without.
Why? The rules are as such that the drivers head has to be below an imaginary line between the nose and air box so their head doesn’t touch the ground on impact. How many drivers have you seen been injured in recent times from roll overs? I’d be more concerned as a driver about how difficult it is to extract myself from a car WITH a halo when upside downPersonally I think if they’re going to go down this route then they should have a full canopy with sealed off driver cell (like in powerboat racing) so if there’s an accident and the car rolls then there is no danger from fire etc
I agree with the full canopy idea being the preferred option for what it's worth. Roll overs are always going to be problematic to get out regardless what option you go for in a single seater, it's never going to be 100% risk free.
ELUSIVEJIM said:
the struggle it takes for a driver to exit the car is a huge concern.
It is hard enough when the car is the right way up without the car being at a difficult angle.
If a driver is trapped with the recovery team need to cut through the "halo" to extract the driver in a safe manor?
I don't know why people continually repeat this tripe when both issues have been addressed and discussed here time and time again. It is hard enough when the car is the right way up without the car being at a difficult angle.
If a driver is trapped with the recovery team need to cut through the "halo" to extract the driver in a safe manor?
You don't like Halo, I get it. That's fine. Stop trying to justify your position with bogus nonsense.
HustleRussell said:
ELUSIVEJIM said:
the struggle it takes for a driver to exit the car is a huge concern.
It is hard enough when the car is the right way up without the car being at a difficult angle.
If a driver is trapped with the recovery team need to cut through the "halo" to extract the driver in a safe manor?
I don't know why people continually repeat this tripe when both issues have been addressed and discussed here time and time again. It is hard enough when the car is the right way up without the car being at a difficult angle.
If a driver is trapped with the recovery team need to cut through the "halo" to extract the driver in a safe manor?
You don't like Halo, I get it. That's fine. Stop trying to justify your position with bogus nonsense.
R8Steve said:
Which is perfect if you land upside down on perfectly flat ground. Throw a gravel trap, kerbs, tyre walls, other cars, etc into the mix and that imaginary line doesn't seem quite as safe as it was on paper.
How many times have you seen a car roll, and how many times have you seen a drivers head and/ or neck injured from that? HustleRussell said:
I don't know why people continually repeat this tripe when both issues have been addressed and discussed here time and time again.
You don't like Halo, I get it. That's fine. Stop trying to justify your position with bogus nonsense.
So you think this is safe?You don't like Halo, I get it. That's fine. Stop trying to justify your position with bogus nonsense.
https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/6vx3oq/...
ELUSIVEJIM said:
HustleRussell said:
I don't know why people continually repeat this tripe when both issues have been addressed and discussed here time and time again.
You don't like Halo, I get it. That's fine. Stop trying to justify your position with bogus nonsense.
So you think this is safe?You don't like Halo, I get it. That's fine. Stop trying to justify your position with bogus nonsense.
https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/6vx3oq/...
Christ.
37chevy said:
R8Steve said:
Which is perfect if you land upside down on perfectly flat ground. Throw a gravel trap, kerbs, tyre walls, other cars, etc into the mix and that imaginary line doesn't seem quite as safe as it was on paper.
How many times have you seen a car roll, and how many times have you seen a drivers head and/ or neck injured from that? 37chevy said:
How many times have you seen a car roll, and how many times have you seen a drivers head and/ or neck injured from that?
I remember it happening to Pedro Diniz at the 1999 European Grand Prix but the cars were strengthened after that accident to make sure it would not happen again. Very rare as you say.Clip
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhgNTA5NOow
HustleRussell said:
What value is my opinion when this solution has been exhaustively studied, analysed, assessed in case studies etc by a team of experts, any one of which having far more relevant knowledge than I do. Exactly how far would my head have to be up my arse to think that my idle and barely informed speculation somehow counters all of that?
Christ.
Well I just hope it's not going to have to be tested.Christ.
I for one feel being able to extract a driver as fast as possible is as important as having head protection.
I just can't see how a medical team is going to be able to extract a driver who is unable to extract himself without having very big issues.
BTW have a beer and chill
ELUSIVEJIM said:
HustleRussell said:
What value is my opinion when this solution has been exhaustively studied, analysed, assessed in case studies etc by a team of experts, any one of which having far more relevant knowledge than I do. Exactly how far would my head have to be up my arse to think that my idle and barely informed speculation somehow counters all of that?
Christ.
Well I just hope it's not going to have to be tested.Christ.
I for one feel being able to extract a driver as fast as possible is as important as having head protection.
I just can't see how a medical team is going to be able to extract a driver who is unable to extract himself without having very big issues.
In pretty much every conceivable circumstance, inside the survival cell is the safest place to be on a live racing circuit.
The cars don’t catch fire any more, but if ever they did, 10 seconds exposure is little different from 7 with modern multi-layer fire retardant aramid and nomex race wear which is orders of magnitude better than anything which existed when the 7 second extraction time came about.
The aforementioned experts determined that the Halo would make it easier for a driver to extricate himself from an inverted car, not that this ever happens because normal practice would be to right the car first.
Just inform yourself, because otherwise misinformation pervades and this will just continue to go around and around.
HustleRussell said:
If it wasn’t for your selective memory you’d recall that in the event a driver has to be extracted in a hurry (which never happens) the Halo can be removed in a jiffy with three snips from the jaws of life which will arrive IIRC with the medical car.
In pretty much every conceivable circumstance, inside the survival cell is the safest place to be on a live racing circuit.
The cars don’t catch fire any more, but if ever they did, 10 seconds exposure is little different from 7 with modern multi-layer fire retardant aramid and nomex race wear which is orders of magnitude better than anything which existed when the 7 second extraction time came about.
The aforementioned experts determined that the Halo would make it easier for a driver to extricate himself from an inverted car, not that this ever happens because normal practice would be to right the car first.
Just inform yourself, because otherwise misinformation pervades and this will just continue to go around and around.
Not actually selective memory but I never knew they were going to be using the jaws of life to cut through the halo. In pretty much every conceivable circumstance, inside the survival cell is the safest place to be on a live racing circuit.
The cars don’t catch fire any more, but if ever they did, 10 seconds exposure is little different from 7 with modern multi-layer fire retardant aramid and nomex race wear which is orders of magnitude better than anything which existed when the 7 second extraction time came about.
The aforementioned experts determined that the Halo would make it easier for a driver to extricate himself from an inverted car, not that this ever happens because normal practice would be to right the car first.
Just inform yourself, because otherwise misinformation pervades and this will just continue to go around and around.
So in that case it's not an issue.
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