Red Bull 2019

[anonymous-user]

Red Bull will be parting with Renault at the end of the 2018 and it has been mentioned that they will have the Honda engine in the back.

But Red Bull insist they have a number of other possible engine suppliers.

However Red Bull have a new title sponsor for the 2018 season who are Aston Martin.

Aston Martin have just updated their new road car "Vantage" which for the first time will have a Mercedes AMG sourced engine fitted to it's road car.

As we all know Manor had a customer Mercedes F1 engine but the team folded. This means there is another opportunity for a team to have a customer Mercedes engine.

Could Red Bull be the next team to go with Mercedes considering the above?

[thegreenhell]

No chance.

Mercedes have already refused to supply RBR once when they tried to ditch Renault, so there's no chance of them doing so now when they are potentially Mercedes' strongest rival.

[kambites]

For a company with their own successful works team to supply Redbull (who almost undeniably have the best chassis and the best driver pairing on the grid) would be daft.

Edited by kambites on Thursday 15th March 11:27

[HustleRussell]

ELUSIVEJIM said:

Red Bull will be parting with Renault at the end of the 2018 and it has been mentioned that they will have the Honda engine in the back.

Could Red Bull be the next team to go with Mercedes considering the above?

Source?

I realise it has been widely speculated and I understand why it is generally believed that Red Bull will ditch Renault for 2019, but you are making a statement which I haven't heard from any source connected to Red Bull.

[anonymous-user]

HustleRussell said:

Source?

I realise it has been widely speculated and I understand why it is generally believed that Red Bull will ditch Renault for 2019, but you are making a statement which I haven't heard from any source connected to Red Bull.

Pretty much mentioned by many sources but yes not 100% confirmed.

Personally I would have though Renault supplying Red Bull after 2018 would benefit all concerned.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/41265779

[rdjohn]

As part of the current Concorde agreement, negotiated by Bernie, Renault are obliged to supply Red Bull until the end of 2020 - if no other outfit is willing to supply.

Overarching that contract is the bad-mouthing the RB gave Renault in 2015 and the possibility that Honda could supply them.

2 + 2 = 6 to a journo like Benson and Adam Cooper at BS.com. The reality is that RB must inform the FIA, before the beginning of June, who will be supplying the PUs in 2019. If Honda goes really well with with TR, then there is the possibility that they might switch.

I think Renault would prefer that they do, just to get rid of them, but ultimately, it is not their choice.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/134563/red-bull-...

I think this story has a bit of Spin on it, but the FIA date in May the key event

Edited by rdjohn on Thursday 15th March 18:06

[The Moose]

kambites said:

For a company with their own successful works team to supply Redbull (who almost undeniably have the best chassis and the best driver pairing on the grid) would be daft.

Edited by kambites on Thursday 15th March 11:27

Swap Newey for an engine supply contract?!

[kambites]

ELUSIVEJIM said:

Personally I would have though Renault supplying Red Bull after 2018 would benefit all concerned.

Not if Renault are serious in their ambition to win the titles with their works team. I suspect they'd rather Redbull were stuck with Honda.

[anonymous-user]

kambites said:

Not if Renault are serious in their ambition to win the titles with their works team. I suspect they'd rather Redbull were stuck with Honda.

Yes there is that point but it's done nothing to stop Mercedes winning since 2014.

Better to keep your enemies close and all that

[thegreenhell]

ELUSIVEJIM said:

Yes there is that point but it's done nothing to stop Mercedes winning since 2014.

Better to keep your enemies close and all that

Not really.

Under the current engine regs, both Mercedes and Ferrari have only supplied customer engines to mid-field and back-marker teams. Both very publicly refused to supply RBR when they tried to ditch Renault, forcing them to make up and use rebranded Renault engines.

The current RBR Renault contract only runs to the end of this season, and Renault clearly want to end the supply, having given a deadline of the end of May for RBR to choose between them and Honda. If the Honda proves even half-competitive for STR in the opening races of this year then I'm certain we'll see RBR take them up until the end of the current regs in 2021.

[anonymous-user]

thegreenhell said:

Not really.

Under the current engine regs, both Mercedes and Ferrari have only supplied customer engines to mid-field and back-marker teams. Both very publicly refused to supply RBR when they tried to ditch Renault, forcing them to make up and use rebranded Renault engines.

The current RBR Renault contract only runs to the end of this season, and Renault clearly want to end the supply, having given a deadline of the end of May for RBR to choose between them and Honda. If the Honda proves even half-competitive for STR in the opening races of this year then I'm certain we'll see RBR take them up until the end of the current regs in 2021.

If Red Bull start winning with Renault again what will happen to Honda long term??

Honda have clearly improved but by how much will be interesting to see.

[HustleRussell]

Gaz. said:

Merc supplied Mclaren in 2014. Nobody thought Mclaren would implode at the time and by rights they should have had podiums and capatalised for wins like RBR did. They massively underperformed given the equipment they had. Given the very public fall out between RBR and Renault I'm not surprised no-one else wants to supply them engines.

They did have a podium with Button and they had rookie Magnussen in the other car- and the wrong fuel / lubricants partner. They did not have works Mercedes engine performance.

[HustleRussell]

ELUSIVEJIM said:

If Red Bull start winning with Renault again what will happen to Honda long term??

Honda have clearly improved but by how much will be interesting to see.

It's a shame Toro Rosso are in the wrong country because I would love to see Honda buy them.

With the advantages which come with being a works team in the current formula there will always be a team which wants that kind of relationship even if it is technically the worst PU on the grid at the moment.

I suspect Honda are still going to have inferior reliability and fuel consumption this season so I wouldn't predict a Red Bull Honda 2019 championship just yet.

If we are to see other engine manufacturers compete convincingly with Mercedes I think they will need pegging back, it looks as though we're going to have to wait until 2021 for this...

[anonymous-user]

HustleRussell said:

It's a shame Toro Rosso are in the wrong country because I would love to see Honda buy them.

With the advantages which come with being a works team in the current formula there will always be a team which wants that kind of relationship even if it is technically the worst PU on the grid at the moment.

I suspect Honda are still going to have inferior reliability and fuel consumption this season so I wouldn't predict a Red Bull Honda 2019 championship just yet.

If we are to see other engine manufacturers compete convincingly with Mercedes I think they will need pegging back, it looks as though we're going to have to wait until 2021 for this...

Exactly.

I am actually amazed Honda came back in the first place.

Backing out of F1 in 2008 only to have Brawn then win the Championship in 2009 with their old car must have been one hell of a kick in the teeth.

It would be great to see Honda return as a team but can they afford to have another disaster.

[Vaud]

ELUSIVEJIM said:

Backing out of F1 in 2008 only to have Brawn then win the Championship in 2009 with their old car must have been one hell of a kick in the teeth.

I thought only the engine was under Honda's direct management. The rest was local management (yes, funded by Honda) but not "Honda" people.

[anonymous-user]

Vaud said:

I thought only the engine was under Honda's direct management. The rest was local management (yes, funded by Honda) but not "Honda" people.

Not sure to be honest.

I know Honda purchased the team from BAR.

Of course the engine in the Brawn was the Mercedes which helped matters greatly.

If Honda had carried on I doubt it would have won the 2009 Championship with the Honda unit.

[Vaud]

ELUSIVEJIM said:

Not sure to be honest.

I know Honda purchased the team from BAR.

Of course the engine in the Brawn was the Mercedes which helped matters greatly.

If Honda had carried on I doubt it would have won the 2009 Championship with the Honda unit.

I agree - and IIRC, so does Ross B... the Honda engine was way behind the benchmark in weight, power and fuel efficiency.

[LaurasOtherHalf]

Gaz. said:

HustleRussell said:

They did have a podium with Button and they had rookie Magnussen in the other car- and the wrong fuel / lubricants partner. They did not have works Mercedes engine performance.

They had a much better engine than RBR & Ferrari and had the opportunity to run the full monty like Williams but unlike Williams they chose to use another supplier. RBR secured 3 wins and between them RBR & Ferrari had 11 podiums. Mclaren should have snaffled all of those results up considering the power & reliability advantage they had over those two.

The daft thing was, McLaren were even offered the Petronas Oil in unmarked drums and then when it was obvious, given permission to use it with their oil suppliers branding on the drums.

They also had their bizarre asymmetric layout with radiators on one side and intercooler on the other, never mind not running a charge cooler like the works team. That they didn't have Mercedes engine performance is probably more to do with their own short comings although quite what they were privy to with regards to the engine architecture is probably unknown out side the factory.

[AndStilliRise]

Vaud said:

ELUSIVEJIM said:

Not sure to be honest.

I know Honda purchased the team from BAR.

Of course the engine in the Brawn was the Mercedes which helped matters greatly.

If Honda had carried on I doubt it would have won the 2009 Championship with the Honda unit.

I agree - and IIRC, so does Ross B... the Honda engine was way behind the benchmark in weight, power and fuel efficiency.

IIRC Mercedes supplied the engine but at the time the KERS system was built by the team, which they didn't have ready. So throughout the year it was just the engine doing all the work. However without the KERS system the team had to add weight ballast which could be moved around depending on the circuit which is something you could not do with fixed batteries. Ross Brawn/Jenson Button played an absolute blinder.

[anonymous-user]

AndStilliRise said:

IIRC Mercedes supplied the engine but at the time the KERS system was built by the team, which they didn't have ready. So throughout the year it was just the engine doing all the work. However without the KERS system the team had to add weight ballast which could be moved around depending on the circuit which is something you could not do with fixed batteries. Ross Brawn/Jenson Button played an absolute blinder.

As I recall, the car was already heavy, which is partly why the KERS wasn’t fitted. Brawn said they needed to cut the weight before working on KERS and it wasn’t a priority?