Tactical Use of Grid Penalties

[r11co]

We know that teams have been doing it since the powertrain and gearbox limits were imposed, but Renault have now come out and said they will be making it a factor of their strategy this season.

On the one hand you might think it is an admission of a lack of reliability and ideally you should be able to build components that have the best performance to take advantage of the limits, but someone somewhere has obviously been doing the computer simulations and realised that this a cheaper/better option.

I am personally of the opinion that everyone knows the cost is in the research and development and components become cheaper in larger production runs so the whole powertrain cost-control through restrictions and penalties is broken and needs a fundamental rethink.

[EDLT]

Everyone who isn't going to be on the front three rows every race is going to do it. If Merc/Ferrari go out in Q1 at any point they will probably do the same thing. Rather than drop the whole farce I can see the rules being changed so you get penalties over multiple races until they all used.

[HustleRussell]

Would’ve loved it if all the teams had come to a gentleman’s agreement that they would all take an extra PU at the same race weekend in protest thus nullifying all of the grid penalties. Of course I know that could never happen, but two and a half power units is not enough, we are going to see far too much engine management and engine penalties are going to be a decisive factor in the championship, most likely neutralising any chance of Ferrari or Red Bull mounting a challenge to Mercedes.

[slipstream 1985]

Going from 4 units to 5 units this year would have been enough.

[Vaud]

slipstream 1985 said:

Going from 4 units to 5 units this year would have been enough.

The challenge is that the leading have plowed £10Ms into the target life span. Hard to explain to a board that you will now essentially squander some of that competitive advantage.

[Derek Smith]

I think it is to bring pressure on the legislators. They are saying: the reg are ridiculous.

[Kraken]

At some GP's the best race of the weekend is going to be the teams trying to be first to get their engine change paperwork in. With the penalties being applied in the order the notifcations are received it's not inconceivable that at some GP's you could change engine and start just outside the top 10.

[Gad-Westy]

Kraken said:

At some GP's the best race of the weekend is going to be the teams trying to be first to get their engine change paperwork in. With the penalties being applied in the order the notifcations are received it's not inconceivable that at some GP's you could change engine and start just outside the top 10.

This is the bit that I struggle with as a fan. There are times when outside of the top few spots, I have absolutely no idea where drivers are going to start, and it often has little or no relation to their qualifying time. Could Sauber have rocked up to the Belgian or Italan Grand Prix and immediately hand their paperwork in for best possible grid position and not even have to take part in qualifying?

Grid penalties may have been a well intentioned idea but this system has long outstayed its welcome IMO.

Relating to a comment further up where your grid penalties would carry over until they're spent. Am I right in saying that would have seen McLaren never off the back of the grid last season?

Edited by Gad-Westy on Monday 5th March 10:02

[99dndd]

Is there any point to watching Qualifying this season?

[slipstream 1985]

Time penalties instead of grid? Would that work?

[Vaud]

slipstream 1985 said:

Time penalties instead of grid? Would that work?

Sounds worse in a way... having to overlay that Perez is ahead of Alonso but he has a 10 sec penalty for multiple grid positions.

A stop/go could mitigate that but it still looks artificial?

[CraigyMc]

slipstream 1985 said:

Time penalties instead of grid? Would that work?

Just penalise the teams in constructors points. Let them race, and penalise them outside of the circuit.

[Gad-Westy]

CraigyMc said:

slipstream 1985 said:

Time penalties instead of grid? Would that work?

Just penalise the teams in constructors points. Let them race, and penalise them outside of the circuit.

Better than now but would still give us a bit of a situation where results of on track don't necessarily tally with championship standing. I'd rather just see it scrapped until a better idea comes along.

[HustleRussell]

CraigyMc said:

slipstream 1985 said:

Time penalties instead of grid? Would that work?

Just penalise the teams in constructors points. Let them race, and penalise them outside of the circuit.

What about 'the spectacle' though?

At the end of the 2017 season people were discussing how much of a problem the significant reduction in overtakes compared to 2016 was.

It was also noticed that a significant number of those overtakes were owed to Ricciardo and other drivers starting out of position due to grid penalties...

[CraigyMc]

HustleRussell said:

CraigyMc said:

slipstream 1985 said:

Time penalties instead of grid? Would that work?

Just penalise the teams in constructors points. Let them race, and penalise them outside of the circuit.

What about 'the spectacle' though?

At the end of the 2017 season people were discussing how much of a problem the significant reduction in overtakes compared to 2016 was.

It was also noticed that a significant number of those overtakes were owed to Ricciardo and other drivers starting out of position due to grid penalties...

On that basis there should be a popular campaign to make usain bolt run 105m just to spice up the spectacle.

F1 shouldn't be about success ballast or grid penalties.

[Derek Smith]

CraigyMc said:

HustleRussell said:

CraigyMc said:

slipstream 1985 said:

Time penalties instead of grid? Would that work?

Just penalise the teams in constructors points. Let them race, and penalise them outside of the circuit.

What about 'the spectacle' though?

At the end of the 2017 season people were discussing how much of a problem the significant reduction in overtakes compared to 2016 was.

It was also noticed that a significant number of those overtakes were owed to Ricciardo and other drivers starting out of position due to grid penalties...

On that basis there should be a popular campaign to make usain bolt run 105m just to spice up the spectacle.

F1 shouldn't be about success ballast or grid penalties.

I can see the argument against it but there was a certain anticipation when drivers were out of position. Some of the most memorable moments were when someone was making their way through. It was only applicable to some circuits though. Mind you, the most memorable moment was when there was a lot of quality on the first two rows. The race was ruined by the second corner.

I don't think Bolt should be on the circuit during a race, even if he only runs 105 metres.

[CraigyMc]

Derek Smith said:

I don't think Bolt should be on the circuit during a race, even if he only runs 105 metres.

Think of the spectacle!

[Angpozzuto]

How about if grid penalties were scrapped but teams are not allowed extra engines. If you're out of engines you're staying at home. Think how much money mclaren would've saved

[CraigyMc]

Angpozzuto said:

How about if grid penalties were scrapped but teams are not allowed extra engines. If you're out of engines you're staying at home. Think how much money mclaren would've saved

So the rich teams (for example, the red one) could pay a poor team to have one of their drivers torpedo the.silver one, with the explicit aim of damaging an engine?

Nah.

[HustleRussell]

CraigyMc said:

HustleRussell said:

CraigyMc said:

slipstream 1985 said:

Time penalties instead of grid? Would that work?

Just penalise the teams in constructors points. Let them race, and penalise them outside of the circuit.

What about 'the spectacle' though?

At the end of the 2017 season people were discussing how much of a problem the significant reduction in overtakes compared to 2016 was.

It was also noticed that a significant number of those overtakes were owed to Ricciardo and other drivers starting out of position due to grid penalties...

On that basis there should be a popular campaign to make usain bolt run 105m just to spice up the spectacle.

F1 shouldn't be about success ballast or grid penalties.

I’m not saying penalties are a good thing, but this is the situation we find ourselves in and there is a silver lining with the prospect of seeing top drivers fight through the pack. People were suggesting time penalties or fines / championship points penalties for the teams and IMO that’d be much worse.