'Crash and Burn': The story of Tommy Byrne
Discussion
BBC4 Monday 9pm.
He made it to F1 - briefly - so I thought it would be ok to post here, rather than the TV forum.
I watched this on BBC NI last week and can thoroughly recommend it; very interesting.
Very quick, but he upset the 'establishment'. Came across, to me, as the Alex Higgins of single-seater racing. With a different attitude he could have raced for McLaren (when they were dominant), but Ron Dennis didn't like him and his career went into decline.
A fascinating story, with much input from Byrne himself.
He made it to F1 - briefly - so I thought it would be ok to post here, rather than the TV forum.
I watched this on BBC NI last week and can thoroughly recommend it; very interesting.
Very quick, but he upset the 'establishment'. Came across, to me, as the Alex Higgins of single-seater racing. With a different attitude he could have raced for McLaren (when they were dominant), but Ron Dennis didn't like him and his career went into decline.
A fascinating story, with much input from Byrne himself.
Killer2005 said:
On again tonight at 9 on BBC4 for anyone who may have missed it.
Live TV? How quaint.http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b08jqfqx/cras...
Watched it, good viewing and an interesting backstory, great stuff
It seems the guy was very talented but a bit of an 'Irish country boy' maverick which didn't go down well with the PTB at the time, it reminded me of an other British F1 driver of the 70s who was also a piss artist and serial shagger but had the connections and who reached the top of the tree.
If only TB could have been in the right place at the right time, eh?
It seems the guy was very talented but a bit of an 'Irish country boy' maverick which didn't go down well with the PTB at the time, it reminded me of an other British F1 driver of the 70s who was also a piss artist and serial shagger but had the connections and who reached the top of the tree.
If only TB could have been in the right place at the right time, eh?
Excellent documentary.
I've been intrigued with Tommy Byrne since he first drove in F1. As a kid, I managed to blag my way into the pits for a tyre test at Brands and watched him do his stuff. Odd looking fella but in the car, even in my naive teenage years, you could sense he was special.
If you know what you are looking at, that footage of him testing the McLaren at Silverstone could have been Prost, Senna, Lauda...
What he had (and what did for him) is that he had what a lot of people say other drivers have but rarely is the case.....a natural, God-given talent for driving a car exceptionally fast, exceptionally well, consistently. Whilst others would commit to their craft 100%, abstain from all of life's distractions in the pursuit of perfection, he'd be properly on the sauce the night before, stagger to the circuit, strap in, stick it on pole and most likely win the race without missing a beat.
Very very few drivers have had this capacity and ability. Senna, maybe. I think part of the criticism levelled at Hamilton is rooted in the fact that he 'appears' not to have to try too hard to succeed.
Either way, well worth a watch.
I've been intrigued with Tommy Byrne since he first drove in F1. As a kid, I managed to blag my way into the pits for a tyre test at Brands and watched him do his stuff. Odd looking fella but in the car, even in my naive teenage years, you could sense he was special.
If you know what you are looking at, that footage of him testing the McLaren at Silverstone could have been Prost, Senna, Lauda...
What he had (and what did for him) is that he had what a lot of people say other drivers have but rarely is the case.....a natural, God-given talent for driving a car exceptionally fast, exceptionally well, consistently. Whilst others would commit to their craft 100%, abstain from all of life's distractions in the pursuit of perfection, he'd be properly on the sauce the night before, stagger to the circuit, strap in, stick it on pole and most likely win the race without missing a beat.
Very very few drivers have had this capacity and ability. Senna, maybe. I think part of the criticism levelled at Hamilton is rooted in the fact that he 'appears' not to have to try too hard to succeed.
Either way, well worth a watch.
Watched both the Surtees and Byrne programmes the other night. They were both essential viewing for anyone interested in racing. But that's my opinion and counts for nothing IMHO ;-)
I really felt sorry for big John when he was speaking about his son, losing a child must be a hard thing to come to terms with. RIP JS.
As for Tommy, he was so talented. His confidence/arrogance and his attitude just must have grated with the teams of that era but good doesn't do him justice. I kinda liked the guy although he did sometimes come across like he'd a chip on both shoulders but he talked just like a normal guy, no PC behaviour from him. Just a wasted talent, maybe wasted is exactly what he was most of the time too but I bet he's got loads of stories you couldn't put on TV. To get the chance to sit with him for a couple beers would be a good way to spend some time.
I really felt sorry for big John when he was speaking about his son, losing a child must be a hard thing to come to terms with. RIP JS.
As for Tommy, he was so talented. His confidence/arrogance and his attitude just must have grated with the teams of that era but good doesn't do him justice. I kinda liked the guy although he did sometimes come across like he'd a chip on both shoulders but he talked just like a normal guy, no PC behaviour from him. Just a wasted talent, maybe wasted is exactly what he was most of the time too but I bet he's got loads of stories you couldn't put on TV. To get the chance to sit with him for a couple beers would be a good way to spend some time.
mikecassie said:
Watched both the Surtees and Byrne programmes the other night. They were both essential viewing for anyone interested in racing. But that's my opinion and counts for nothing IMHO ;-)
I really felt sorry for big John when he was speaking about his son, losing a child must be a hard thing to come to terms with. RIP JS.
As for Tommy, he was so talented. His confidence/arrogance and his attitude just must have grated with the teams of that era but good doesn't do him justice. I kinda liked the guy although he did sometimes come across like he'd a chip on both shoulders but he talked just like a normal guy, no PC behaviour from him. Just a wasted talent, maybe wasted is exactly what he was most of the time too but I bet he's got loads of stories you couldn't put on TV. To get the chance to sit with him for a couple beers would be a good way to spend some time.
At the time he was quite heavily criticised in the sporting press. It was unusual. I wonder if it was something to do with the way he treated the reporters. Some did see themselves as authorities. Come to that, many readers agreed. Without the advantage of forums and other points of view it was difficult to form an educated opinion. Being an F1 driver is more than just going fast though, as many failed drivers testify. He crashed a lot. Fair enough, so did others who went onto success, but they behaved differently. Managers must have thought it just wasn't worth the aggro.I really felt sorry for big John when he was speaking about his son, losing a child must be a hard thing to come to terms with. RIP JS.
As for Tommy, he was so talented. His confidence/arrogance and his attitude just must have grated with the teams of that era but good doesn't do him justice. I kinda liked the guy although he did sometimes come across like he'd a chip on both shoulders but he talked just like a normal guy, no PC behaviour from him. Just a wasted talent, maybe wasted is exactly what he was most of the time too but I bet he's got loads of stories you couldn't put on TV. To get the chance to sit with him for a couple beers would be a good way to spend some time.
Looking back I think there was a prejudice against common as muck drivers - that's why I never succeeded, but that's another story. It was something of a gentleman's club. If you weren't part of the in crowd you had to conform to the norms. For some reason I thought John Cooper was from the wrong side of the tracks until I spoke with him.
I enjoyed the programme, but we mainly saw just the one side.
The Surtees programme was thoroughly enjoyable and rather touching.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04wwc75/episodes/...
But it says the programmes are not available. I'm sure a google will let you find some illicit copies if you need to see them...
But it says the programmes are not available. I'm sure a google will let you find some illicit copies if you need to see them...
Derek Smith said:
Being an F1 driver is more than just going fast though, as many failed drivers testify. He crashed a lot. Fair enough, so did others who went onto success, but they behaved differently. Managers must have thought it just wasn't worth the aggro.
I enjoyed the programme, but we mainly saw just the one side.
I enjoyed the programme, but we mainly saw just the one side.
Fair points; a decade earlier James Hunt had the charm and charisma to get away with his anti-establishment, rock-star lifestyle, the paddock liked him and the media loved him.
For Byrne, pure talent alone was not enough.
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