When would a Manor have won the championship?

[patmahe]

Inspired by the 'when would my car have won a GP' thread. I'm wondering if you could take a Manor F1 car back in time and assuming you were allowed to run it as is and you had access to all the 2016 tech needed to run it. How far back would you need to go before you had a car capable of winning the F1 world championship?

[FourWheelDrift]

patmahe said:

Inspired by the 'when would my car have won a GP' thread. I'm wondering if you could take a Manor F1 car back in time and assuming you were allowed to run it as is and you had access to all the 2016 tech needed to run it. How far back would you need to go before you had a car capable of winning the F1 world championship?

2014. The first year of the hybrids, if this years 2016 car was available.

[patmahe]

FourWheelDrift said:

patmahe said:

Inspired by the 'when would my car have won a GP' thread. I'm wondering if you could take a Manor F1 car back in time and assuming you were allowed to run it as is and you had access to all the 2016 tech needed to run it. How far back would you need to go before you had a car capable of winning the F1 world championship?

2014. The first year of the hybrids, if this years 2016 car was available.

That ends the thread pretty quickly but thanks for your answer

Hard to believe that only 2 years on they have a car that would have defeated the 2014 Mercedes, shows how fast F1 moves I guess.

Can I ask what you are basing that assertion on? Is it just lap times or some other reason(s)?

[FourWheelDrift]

patmahe said:

Can I ask what you are basing that assertion on? Is it just lap times or some other reason(s)?

I looked at qualifying speeds, at some circuits although 'I think' the tyres this year will play a big part over the ones used in previous years.

I used Bahrain as an example as it's pretty much going to be similar conditions.

2014 - Pole - Rosberg - 1:33.185
2015 - Pole - Hamilton - 1:32.571
2016 - Pole - Hamilton - 1:29.493

2016 - Manor - Wehrlein - 1:32.806

They wouldn't dominate a 2014 but they would be championship contenders, winning races and have as much chance as the Mercedes pair Hamilton winning the title.


Even at a power circuit like Hockenheim its close (conditions for both, cloudy & dry)

2014 - Pole - Rosberg - 1:16.540
2016 - Manor - Wehrlein - 1:16.717 (still good enough for the front row in 2014)

Edited by FourWheelDrift on Thursday 18th August 14:42

[37chevy]

great question and amazing answer when you think about it....really shows the rate of development of an f1 car.

how about the manor against a pre hybrid car....how fast were the v8s/ v10s compared to the 2016 manor...???

[Redlake27]

37chevy said:

great question and amazing answer when you think about it....really shows the rate of development of an f1 car.

how about the manor against a pre hybrid car....how fast were the v8s/ v10s compared to the 2016 manor...???

The peak of pace in the pre-hybrid era was 2004. After that, power was cut and tyre technology was frozen in 2007 (control tyre introduced).

This year, hybrid cars are starting to nibble at 2004 times. However, it is not a fair comparison, because if you put a 2016 car on 2004 tyres it would be much quicker than on its 2014 control/degrading tyres.

Or put it another way, the shoestring Minardi of 2004 (a three year old chassis with a customer engine, but on trick tyres) was lapping as fast as a 2016 front runner this year......


Progress?

[Crafty_]

Thats all about aero regs though. Give them 2004 aero regs today and they'd be much faster.

Also remember that whilst the masses don't really care the V6s are far more efficient on fuel, in that respect the pace of todays cars show massive progress.

[37chevy]

Redlake27 said:

The peak of pace in the pre-hybrid era was 2004. After that, power was cut and tyre technology was frozen in 2007 (control tyre introduced).

This year, hybrid cars are starting to nibble at 2004 times. However, it is not a fair comparison, because if you put a 2016 car on 2004 tyres it would be much quicker than on its 2014 control/degrading tyres.

Or put it another way, the shoestring Minardi of 2004 (a three year old chassis with a customer engine, but on trick tyres) was lapping as fast as a 2016 front runner this year......


Progress?

And of course that's interesting in itself and maybe shows why f1 has lost its appeal....if a 2004 minardi is as fast as the current Mercedes especially given the massive difference in budget, that's quite amazing really. It just shows how much engineers have to work harder to get those downforce gains and nth degree improvements these days