So what other options does Hamilton have for penalties?
Discussion
All the talk seems to be of taking them at Monza and Spa, using power to claw back from the back of the field.
I wondered if there were any circuits where sitting out qualifying and thus having loads of new sets of tyres would be an advantage. Being able to make a four-stop race (in these days of 2 second pitstops) and then whizzing round.
Anyone with more knowledge of strategy care to comment?
I wondered if there were any circuits where sitting out qualifying and thus having loads of new sets of tyres would be an advantage. Being able to make a four-stop race (in these days of 2 second pitstops) and then whizzing round.
Anyone with more knowledge of strategy care to comment?
I think the disadvantage of starting in the pitlane would significantly outweigh any gain from having extra tyres. Hamilton's penalty problem is probably confined to turbos and MGU-H, which is why I suppose he'll take the pain at Spa or Monza as per speculation. I believe he could have two more complete power units on the shelf by starting 21st / 22nd. You can bet your life he would be in the top 8 by the time he takes his first pit stop and in the top 5 by the time everybody else has taken theirs...
rj2k11 said:
I'm pretty sure in an interview with Sky after the race Toto said that Hamilton will only need one more engine to last the rest of the season. Perhaps I heard incorrectly as everyone else seems to be saying he will need at least two more.
He has used 5 of his 5 turbo chargers and MGU-H. I don't know to what extent repairs / refurbishment are allowed to these components nor how many of those 5 are used but serviceable, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if he had taken a seventh of either of these components by the end of the season.I don't think relying on tyre strategy alone will help, because then you're at the mercy of clear gaps that you can slot into at the crucial pit stop times, so you can unleash the full pace of the car to make the strategy work. You'd also need to be at a circuit where the field is tending to be a bit more spread out so there will be gaps at the crucial times.
This year we have Red Bull joining the party in having a fast race car, so Hamilton will have to overtake four fast cars between him and the other Mercedes once he fights his way up the field. You'd also want to give yourself the best chance of getting to that 6th position where you can launch a decent attack on the cars of other teams.
IMO, the best way to do this would not necessarily a 'fast' circuit where there are long straights where a DRS assisted pass would be easier...it will be one where the Mercedes car enjoys a particularly large advantage over the rest, so you can amplify that advantage with the tyre strategy.
Looking at last year's races/qualifying, Spa fits the bill for all of these criteria perfectly, IMO.
This year we have Red Bull joining the party in having a fast race car, so Hamilton will have to overtake four fast cars between him and the other Mercedes once he fights his way up the field. You'd also want to give yourself the best chance of getting to that 6th position where you can launch a decent attack on the cars of other teams.
IMO, the best way to do this would not necessarily a 'fast' circuit where there are long straights where a DRS assisted pass would be easier...it will be one where the Mercedes car enjoys a particularly large advantage over the rest, so you can amplify that advantage with the tyre strategy.
Looking at last year's races/qualifying, Spa fits the bill for all of these criteria perfectly, IMO.
I guess it depends on whether Toto meant "ICE" or "power unit" and I suppose the talk of "one engine for the rest of the season" may have been mixed up with "one penalty for the rest of the season" i.e. he might be able to "stack" all the penalties together for the rest of the season by swapping things three times over at Spa? Not entirely sure that's within the rules, but I couldn't find anything against it when I tried to read them.
Thanks for the insight into the pitlane/tyre trade off Russell. How about if he did a single qualifying lap to start somewhere around the Manor/Sauber/Renault/Mclaren bunch?
Thanks for the insight into the pitlane/tyre trade off Russell. How about if he did a single qualifying lap to start somewhere around the Manor/Sauber/Renault/Mclaren bunch?
You can't really skip qualifying. If you do not set a time in Q1 or your fastest time is more than 107% of the pole you are not admitted to the race. The only way around this is to appeal to the stewards, stating why a time was not set or was slow, clear evidence of pace from practice sessions helps. For example let's say a driver goes out in Q1 and the car suffers damage (lets say a puncture damaged suspension) and the car didn't get repaired until Q1 was over the team can request permission to start the race, likely to be granted.
Not taking part in qualifying on the basis you want to save tyres for the race (and therefore have an unfair advantage) is somewhat cheeky and could easily be refused permission to start the race.
He's going to have to run in qualifying in some capacity.
It's worth noting that last year unused grid penalties were transferred to time penalties in the race, I believe that rule is still in place.
I think he will need to take penalties at two races, turbo and MGU-H are 5 places each and I reckon he needs 2 of each to see out the season. They may decide to change everything to be sure, this would cost more in penalties (25 spots) but wold be safer if the other components are marginal
Not taking part in qualifying on the basis you want to save tyres for the race (and therefore have an unfair advantage) is somewhat cheeky and could easily be refused permission to start the race.
He's going to have to run in qualifying in some capacity.
It's worth noting that last year unused grid penalties were transferred to time penalties in the race, I believe that rule is still in place.
I think he will need to take penalties at two races, turbo and MGU-H are 5 places each and I reckon he needs 2 of each to see out the season. They may decide to change everything to be sure, this would cost more in penalties (25 spots) but wold be safer if the other components are marginal
Edited by Crafty_ on Tuesday 2nd August 15:13
While pondering the potential unsafe release at the weekend I wondered whether it would be possible for him to intentionally get another reprimand at whatever track he wants to take his new engine at? If I'm understanding the rules correctly, that would give him the grid penalty for "too many reprimands" and reset his reprimand count; since replacing his engine would have sent him to the back of the grid anyway, he gets rid of his precarious reprimand situation for free?
kambites said:
While pondering the potential unsafe release at the weekend I wondered whether it would be possible for him to intentionally get another reprimand at whatever track he wants to take his new engine at? If I'm understanding the rules correctly, that would give him the grid penalty for "too many reprimands" and reset his reprimand count; since replacing his engine would have sent him to the back of the grid anyway, he gets rid of his precarious reprimand situation for free?
Crafty... (if that's possible) p.s. on the basis that he wouldn't want to do anything dangerous perhaps he could simply lock up and stop on the circuit during Q3 and roll back into the line of the other cars. That should get a penalty?
Edited by RichB on Tuesday 2nd August 15:10
GCH said:
Crafty_ said:
It's worth boring that last year unused grid penalties were transferred to time penalties in the race, I believe that rule is still in place.
Rules were changed mid-season I believe, hence Mclaren stacking them at Spa when that was no longer the case.Also, stupid autocorrect in the quoted bit, boring should be noting!
Crafty_ said:
I thought they got time penalties at Spa? Will check.
Also, stupid autocorrect in the quoted bit, boring should be noting!
Last time around McLaren were let off the time penalties at Spa, as the system was changed post-Hungary, at least according to this report:Also, stupid autocorrect in the quoted bit, boring should be noting!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/34008319
I did try to read the regulations but they are somewhat opaque.
SunsetZed said:
Dr Z said:
This year we have Red Bull joining the party in having a fast race car, so Hamilton will have to overtake four fast cars between him and the other Mercedes once he fights his way up the field.
Pretty generous to Ferrari that based on their showing in Germany 
My guess would be to take the penalties at Spa. Both Monza and Spa offer good overtaking opportunities, and favour the Merecedes power unit, but at Monza everyone will run low downforce settings which will reduce the effectiveness of the DRS.
At Spa, from memory at least,there are two alternative set-ups. Low downforce to be quick in Sectors 1 and 3 or higher downforce for Sector 2. Hamilton can opt for the lower downforce setting to give him a little extra straight line speed and help him through the pack. The Mercedes should have sufficient residual speed through Sector 2 to not be vulnerable to attack.
I would also think the chance of a safety car or inclement weather playing a part are greater at Spa.
Just my thoughts.
At Spa, from memory at least,there are two alternative set-ups. Low downforce to be quick in Sectors 1 and 3 or higher downforce for Sector 2. Hamilton can opt for the lower downforce setting to give him a little extra straight line speed and help him through the pack. The Mercedes should have sufficient residual speed through Sector 2 to not be vulnerable to attack.
I would also think the chance of a safety car or inclement weather playing a part are greater at Spa.
Just my thoughts.
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