This could get interesting - complaints to the EU
Discussion
It seems that Force India and Sauber have officially raised the issue of the governance and funding system within F1 to the EU on the grounds that it is anti-competitive. It could get very interesting and change the future of F1, hopefully for the better as it would mean CVC would have to be more open and even in terms of money distribution. One poinnt I have always thought wrong is the extra payment to Ferrari for being the longest standing F1 entrant - how can that be fair as no other team can achieve that, even if we ignore the times Ferrari withdrew for various reasons.
Looking forward to this!
Looking forward to this!
I guess the argument against CVC will be that the only way these teams could continue to practice their trade would be to sign up to the agreement, effectively that or nothing. I'm not sure of the timelines and obviously don't know the details of the concorde agreement but if it doesn't specifically include the Strategy Group which excludes some teams from decisions which affect them then that has to be part of the argument they are making.
The two teams who have complained may not have pockets as deep as CVC for lawyers fees but no doubt will have taken legal advice before submitting the complaint and must feel they have a valid argument as it will cost them to pursue it.
The two teams who have complained may not have pockets as deep as CVC for lawyers fees but no doubt will have taken legal advice before submitting the complaint and must feel they have a valid argument as it will cost them to pursue it.
Gaz. said:
I'd love to see the whole shebang restructured from the ground up but while the teams keep signing those legally binding agreements nothing will ever change.
Not that I know a great deal about legal matters, but isn't the agreement only legally binding whilst it goes untested in a court? andyps said:
It seems that Force India and Sauber have officially raised the issue of the governance and funding system within F1 to the EU on the grounds that it is anti-competitive. It could get very interesting and change the future of F1, hopefully for the better as it would mean CVC would have to be more open and even in terms of money distribution. One poinnt I have always thought wrong is the extra payment to Ferrari for being the longest standing F1 entrant - how can that be fair as no other team can achieve that, even if we ignore the times Ferrari withdrew for various reasons.
Looking forward to this!
I think quite a few teams are getting 'historic' payments of one form or another, albeit not as much as Ferrari. The more worrying aspect for me are the veto powers that Ferrari have.Looking forward to this!
A ground up rebuild of the whole sport would be most welcome, but it's never going to happen.
Gaz. said:
CVC will slaughter them. They agreed to this pay structure and as BMW-Sauber the Swiss team were very hard on struggling teams. I forget their actual quotes but it was along the lines of if you can't stand the heat then get out of the kitchen.
POssibly. Possibly not. The competition commission can be VERY harsh at times.. And too generous at times...Eric Mc said:
Teams doing badly or in financial trouble moan about the agreement.
Teams doing well don't.
It was ever thus.
Have we ever had this few teams in the championship before? I don't really know the history of the sport that well but clouds do seem to be hanging over a large portion of the grid at the moment.Teams doing well don't.
It was ever thus.
Jasandjules said:
Gaz. said:
CVC will slaughter them. They agreed to this pay structure and as BMW-Sauber the Swiss team were very hard on struggling teams. I forget their actual quotes but it was along the lines of if you can't stand the heat then get out of the kitchen.
POssibly. Possibly not. The competition commission can be VERY harsh at times.. And too generous at times...The EU has been somewhat harsh at times towards F1. Then all of a sudden they back off. I am completely bewildered as to why they should suddenly become more compliant with the multi-million-pound industry. There was one case where an official was sacked for taken them on.
Times have changed and we have a different bloke in charge of the FIA.
What the EU have, from time to time, demanded is a more open form of financing. There was one bloke who was not too happy with this.
CVC are vulnerable from the reports. They have considerable debt which, with present interest rates, is manageable. For how much longer will they benefit from such largess from the banks is the big question. There have been moves, and promises, of a floatation over recent years but for reasons unknown it has not happened. With just ten teams, and some of them virtually second teams of another, one wonders if investors are a little nervous. With RB suggesting they might up sticks and clear off, possibly with four cars, I can't see them planning anything until the new season. Legal action never helps; it's like a CCJ.
CVC are not the powerhouse they were rumoured to be. That said, there will probably be an accommodation and everyone will say things are much better.
FunkyNige said:
Eric Mc said:
Teams doing badly or in financial trouble moan about the agreement.
Teams doing well don't.
It was ever thus.
Have we ever had this few teams in the championship before? I don't really know the history of the sport that well but clouds do seem to be hanging over a large portion of the grid at the moment.Teams doing well don't.
It was ever thus.
In the mid to late 1960s, it was not unusual for some Grand Prix races to be padded out with Formula 2 cars - just to make up the numbers.
Some Gump said:
Pissing into the wind.
They've started a legal fight with a man who can bribe his way out of a criminal trial for bribery. An understandable act of desperation, but still pointless.
You want to take a bit of care with the wording. Solicitor's letters can be generated by inexact suggestions.They've started a legal fight with a man who can bribe his way out of a criminal trial for bribery. An understandable act of desperation, but still pointless.
What he, if the bloke is the one I think you mean, did was to pay what amounted to a massive fine without going to court. This is, in the country where the court case took place, perfectly legal. His 'way out' was not much of an escape. He paid a fortune, some suggestions I've read say more that what he would have got if the matter had run its course as some evidence would have been rejected, as it always is, in order not to have his methods exposed to the public.
He took a big hit, and not only in money. He's old, the company he works for has massive debts, viewing figures would appear to be falling, team/car numbers are low and might be lower soon, he is being 'blackmailed' himself by the very team owner he's allowed massive concessions to, and now we have the minnows standing up to him. And that's just what we know about. I have the strangest feeling that there's a fair bit that goes on behind closed doors.
Would this have happened in the pre NotW exposé days?
If you go back to pre world championships the 1926 French GP at Miramas was interesting. A change of formula meant many cars were not ready and only three Bugattis started. Jules Goux completed the 100 laps in 4hours 38 mins. Constantini only completed 85 laps and was not classified. Vizcaya only managed 45 laps and was DNF.
And we complain of boring races!!!
And we complain of boring races!!!
Ferrari have traditionally been kept on-side by additional payments negotiated between LdM and BE.
The current round of extra payments were about destroying the potential power base that FOTA had created - an obvious threat to FOM. Starting with Ferrari, BE picked off the key players one-by-one with heritage payments. And also give the impression of power through the creation of the Strategy Group. All to the clear disadvantage of the small teams and potential future entrants.
This time last year there were 3 teams potentially complaining to the EU. One of them was Lotus who, if rescued by Renault, are also likely to receive $35million heritage payments.
If the EU cannot find the very strong whiff of corrupt practices here, then there is something wrong. No doubt BE's long-term strategy to circumvent this problem is for there to be no European races in the not too distant future.
Europe now begins in Azerbaijan.
The current round of extra payments were about destroying the potential power base that FOTA had created - an obvious threat to FOM. Starting with Ferrari, BE picked off the key players one-by-one with heritage payments. And also give the impression of power through the creation of the Strategy Group. All to the clear disadvantage of the small teams and potential future entrants.
This time last year there were 3 teams potentially complaining to the EU. One of them was Lotus who, if rescued by Renault, are also likely to receive $35million heritage payments.
If the EU cannot find the very strong whiff of corrupt practices here, then there is something wrong. No doubt BE's long-term strategy to circumvent this problem is for there to be no European races in the not too distant future.
Europe now begins in Azerbaijan.
Eric Mc said:
If F1 did end up abandoning its spiritual, home, would it be time for a whole new form of non-Bernie Grand Prix racing to be set up - with a European base for its main events?
I'm not sure Merc would want to abandon China and Russia. I think there is a gap for a European based series, either open wheeled or 'sports cars'. With 90 - 120 minute races on traditional and new circuits, I think it would get a following. The design of the formula, though, would be difficult. So many variables.
But I'd like a day at the races, with perhaps classic racing, Ginettas bashing bodywork, then the main feature with a couple of fillers for the nerds at the end. And affordable. I go to GFoS, Silverstone Classic and one or two other events and a GP ticket is just a bit much to add on. If the new formula had seating for, say, £70, I'd wander along and maybe take in a foreign fixture as well.
Eric Mc said:
I have no problem with the odd far flung race. It's the total abandonment of Continental Europe that is worrying me - and has been for quite a while.
Huh?Spain
Italy
Belgium
Hungary
Germany (back next year)
Monaco
Austria
Azerbaijan
and of course
The UK
Thats over 1/3 of the calendar!
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