Is it a Haas or is it a Ferrari?

[Doink]

Looks like someone's not too happy...

http://www.f1today.net/en/news/204859/competitors-...

Haas sailing too close to the wind with this

[Muzzer79]

It's pretty inventive of them to be fair, sailing close to the rulebook is par for the course in F1

It's also not too dis-similar to what Toro Rosso were doing with Red Bull and, to a large extent, still are.

I still don't think Haas will be that far from the back in their first year but hope I'm proved wrong. I do believe they'll be quicker than the Manors.

[tuffer]

I was always under the impression that Red Bull and SBR were pretty much the same team, obviously I was wrong.

[Doink]

Like you say the ts par for the course with f1, let's hope this is what merc are hoping for with manor, hope they turn them into a midtable team with the tie up!

[ralphrj]

tuffer said:

I was always under the impression that Red Bull and SBR were pretty much the same team, obviously I was wrong.

They are 2 separate teams but they are closely linked, a few years ago the cars looked almost identical (bar the paint job). As I understand it there is a company at Milton Keynes called Red Bull Technology Ltd that designs the cars on behalf of Red Bull Racing and STR. The company either manufactures both teams cars or just the Red Bulls and sells the design to STR to manufacture their own version. They used to get around the ban on customer cars by making parts non-compatible (i.e. using different fixings so that a Red Bull part that was to all intents and purposes identical could not be fitted to a STR). There was some debate about whether this was actually happening as Force India obtained a technical drawing of a part that showed it to have both a Red Bull part number and a STR part number but nothing came of it (other than RB threatening FI with legal action for espionage).

[ralphrj]

Gaz. said:

On the other hand when people asked Mclaren if they'd give Honda an old car to hoon around Montegi for months on end, Mclaren said no as they had a gentleman's agreement to honour.

I know that McLaren claimed this but the reality (now painfully evident) is that Honda simply didn't have an engine ready to test.

[hairyben]

Doink said:

Looks like someone's not too happy...

http://www.f1today.net/en/news/204859/competitors-...

Haas sailing too close to the wind with this

Hasn't it been a bit of a running joke for a while that while most the teams have to respect the in season testing/development restrictions that ferrari technicians "employed" by haas are running the ferrari wind tunnel 24/7 on something that will be very similar to the 2016 ferrari?

Along with a few other choice decisions concerning what the scarlett team can get away with I worry that we might be returning to another era of ferrari international assistance.

[rscott]

If this is true http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns31851.html - then it's really pushing the limits:-

For instance, Bach claims that on 31 October, Haas will lay off 70 staff, all of whom will then return to work at Ferrari on 1 November.

[rohrl]

It seems like a bit of a dead-end strategy to me.

If you're effectively a customer of Ferrari then Ferrari will forever make damned sure that you can't beat them. The only way to success in F1 is to plough your own furrow. This doesn't mean that you need to build every last part of the car yourself of course but to rely on another team's cast-offs condemns a team to eternal mediocrity.

[hairyben]

rohrl said:

It seems like a bit of a dead-end strategy to me.

If you're effectively a customer of Ferrari then Ferrari will forever make damned sure that you can't beat them. The only way to success in F1 is to plough your own furrow. This doesn't mean that you need to build every last part of the car yourself of course but to rely on another team's cast-offs condemns a team to eternal mediocrity.

I dunno, I've sneered at hass mself but on the question of strategy it depends what your strategy for your first year in F1 actually is.

You can't run before you can walk, so perhaps a good strategy could be "survive the first 5 years while learning from those successful and then take stock"

[tr7v8]

Huge article about this in this months Race Car Engineering. Worth a read, they state where the Haas & Banbury bits sit & also what they're taking from Ferrari.

[rdjohn]

I suppose that the bigger question is "is it the future for a sustainable F1?"

Personally, I would prefer that a very simple chassis / engine regulation were in force and the WDC took much greater precedence over the WCC.

Money talks and it is ruining the sport. Williams have perhaps £100million budget, but are struggling to compete with a lesser powered Ferrari. This is a colossal sum to take two cars to 20GPs, but like Pemier League football fans believe everything can be resolved if the teams just spend a bit more.

[Logie]

Also heard that they can do what ever testing they want this year as there not in yet. Of course, using all that Ferrari stuff also helps Ferrari this season

[Doink]

Logie said:

Also heard that they can do what ever testing they want this year as there not in yet. Of course, using all that Ferrari stuff also helps Ferrari this season

That's the whole jist of the argument here, can't blame Haas really, they want to hit the ground running having secured a Ferrari engine, Ferrari however have turned it to their advantage to allow them unlimited testing, be interesting to see how the Haas looks when launched?

[ukaskew]

rohrl said:

It seems like a bit of a dead-end strategy to me.

If you're effectively a customer of Ferrari then Ferrari will forever make damned sure that you can't beat them. The only way to success in F1 is to plough your own furrow. This doesn't mean that you need to build every last part of the car yourself of course but to rely on another team's cast-offs condemns a team to eternal mediocrity.

As mentioned in the article, only one new team from the last decade still exists. I don't think the strategy of any new team is genuinely going to be to win races, I think 'mid-table survival' would be priority until they can properly establish and start getting some prize money in.