Mark Webber on F1....
Discussion
BBC article here
). Standing at the back of the circuit (Stowe / Club) I'd get that 'hair on the back of the neck standing up feeling' as you first saw / heard them shrieking down the Hanger Straight. The speed and noise was indeed 'other wordly'. In these days of conforming to the enviro / green lobby we're never going to see this again are we? 
Maaaark said said:
"The car still needs to be something the fans have never seen anything like before. There's so many categories which are close to them now."
I remember going to Silverstone during the V10 days ( [old mode]... when all of this was fields ). Standing at the back of the circuit (Stowe / Club) I'd get that 'hair on the back of the neck standing up feeling' as you first saw / heard them shrieking down the Hanger Straight. The speed and noise was indeed 'other wordly'. In these days of conforming to the enviro / green lobby we're never going to see this again are we? In the V10 days, GP2 cars were drony and slow(er) - the sound could send you to sleep, as every car sounded the same, with gearchanges at exactly the same point. F1 was spectacular and noisy and spine-tingling by comparison.
At Silverstone this year, while walking back from Vale, we decided to hang around for the GP2 race - what a noise! Still not as musical as the V10 F1s, but the current GP2s are way better than the F1 cars (and almost as fast at some circuits)
As mentioned above - F1 should be a spectacle - the pinnacle of motorsport and cars that only a few talented people can drive to their limit - fans need to be "wowed"
At Silverstone this year, while walking back from Vale, we decided to hang around for the GP2 race - what a noise! Still not as musical as the V10 F1s, but the current GP2s are way better than the F1 cars (and almost as fast at some circuits)
As mentioned above - F1 should be a spectacle - the pinnacle of motorsport and cars that only a few talented people can drive to their limit - fans need to be "wowed"
I agree about the engines but I think he should be careful about criticising the 'lack of depth' in the field....... I mean he has never driven these cars has he? And some drivers a lot better than him have struggles to adapt.
IDK, I like Mark but his constant sniping from the side lines these last couple of years is a bit tedious really.
IDK, I like Mark but his constant sniping from the side lines these last couple of years is a bit tedious really.
K
I would love that to happen however I reckon that F1 would implode on day 1 due to people (Horner springs immediately to mind) whinging that the V12 is faster than my V10 & it isn't fair. Etc etc etc.
On the other hand - the noise......
mistakenplane said:
Sad thing of course is people pine the identikit V8 rev limited screaming mess engines.
Now...a hearty mix of V12s, V10s, V8s, turbos whatever, now thats worth while!
Just imagine for a moment how messy the rule book would be, & how busy the race day stewards would be, if F1 was to have a mix of V12's, V10's, V8's etc etc.Now...a hearty mix of V12s, V10s, V8s, turbos whatever, now thats worth while!
I would love that to happen however I reckon that F1 would implode on day 1 due to people (Horner springs immediately to mind) whinging that the V12 is faster than my V10 & it isn't fair. Etc etc etc.
On the other hand - the noise......
fatboy69 said:
Just imagine for a moment how messy the rule book would be, & how busy the race day stewards would be, if F1 was to have a mix of V12's, V10's, V8's etc etc.
I would love that to happen however I reckon that F1 would implode on day 1 due to people (Horner springs immediately to mind) whinging that the V12 is faster than my V10 & it isn't fair. Etc etc etc.
On the other hand - the noise......
They've had mixed engines in the past - 87 ran N/A and turbo cars, '88 had I4 V6 & V8s, '89 had V8,10 & 12sI would love that to happen however I reckon that F1 would implode on day 1 due to people (Horner springs immediately to mind) whinging that the V12 is faster than my V10 & it isn't fair. Etc etc etc.
On the other hand - the noise......
Edited by Pickled on Tuesday 8th September 17:50
A mix of engines you say? Spine-tingly fast? Wonderful noises?
There's a race that happens sometime in June with V4 V6 V8 V10 and F6 engines. They even race at night but the circuit is so big they have to carry their own lights.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsFvx5F5bEE
There's a race that happens sometime in June with V4 V6 V8 V10 and F6 engines. They even race at night but the circuit is so big they have to carry their own lights.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsFvx5F5bEE
Pickled said:
They've had mixed engines in the past - 87 ran N/A and turbo cars, '88 had I4 V6 & V8s, '89 had V8,10 & 12s
'95 was the last year of the Ferrari V12 so that had a mix of v8, 10 and 12s.Edited by Pickled on Tuesday 8th September 17:50
and there were a few v8s hanging around until '98 which was the first all v10 year.
REALIST123 said:
Like who?
Well Vettel seriously struggled to adapt last year and Raikkonen is another example. Mark keeps droning on and on about how these cars are too easy to drive but these last 2 years we have seen numerous driver error crashes - usually because of all the torque. Also so many drivers have come out and said how mentally challenging these cars are due to the number and complexity of systems and issues they manage during the race. I agree with Mark in the extent that these cars are too slow relative to other formula and he is probably right that these young scrawny guys like Verstappen and Kvyat would have struggled to drive more physically demanding V10 era cars.... but could Webber and the older generation cope with the current era cars, tyre management, etc? Probably not IMO.
There is just something unappealing about Mark moaning from the sidelines, it seems a bit sour grapes. Yeah we all want the cars to sound better, go faster and have less tyre management.......... but that doesn't justify slagging off the ability of current drivers in F1 as presumably they are the best available.
edit:
with the exception of Maldonado the pay drivers aren't doing too badly.... even Ericsson is improving.
Edited by VolvoT5 on Tuesday 8th September 18:48
//j17 said:
Smollet said:
He was on the BBC breakfast show yesterday and the discussion got round to his relationship with Vettel. It was quite clever for the BBC to diffuse the situation by posting several pictures of Alonso 
I did just sit on my sofa and shake my head when that happend.m444ttb said:
From a driving point of view how complex are the likes of the Porsche 919 vs the current crop of F1 cars?
Not much more complex to drive, they aren't suppose to be. Working your way through slower classes with over 1000bhp for 3 or 4 hours at a time adds a bit to the workload though. VolvoT5 said:
REALIST123 said:
Like who?
Well Vettel seriously struggled to adapt last year and Raikkonen is another example. Mark keeps droning on and on about how these cars are too easy to drive but these last 2 years we have seen numerous driver error crashes - usually because of all the torque. Also so many drivers have come out and said how mentally challenging these cars are due to the number and complexity of systems and issues they manage during the race. I agree with Mark in the extent that these cars are too slow relative to other formula and he is probably right that these young scrawny guys like Verstappen and Kvyat would have struggled to drive more physically demanding V10 era cars.... but could Webber and the older generation cope with the current era cars, tyre management, etc? Probably not IMO.
There is just something unappealing about Mark moaning from the sidelines, it seems a bit sour grapes. Yeah we all want the cars to sound better, go faster and have less tyre management.......... but that doesn't justify slagging off the ability of current drivers in F1 as presumably they are the best available.
edit:
with the exception of Maldonado the pay drivers aren't doing too badly.... even Ericsson is improving.
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 8th September 18:48
I think Webber's about right, the cars are not that physically demanding to drive, as other drivers have said, and in terms of really talented drivers the grid is lacking in depth,
REALIST123 said:
I couldn't agree that Vettel and Raikonnen struggled to adapt to the new cars per se. They didn't have good seasons but, especially with Vettel that could well have been because he wasn't staying at RBR. If you're right, then all I would say is that he learned very quickly over the winter!
I think Webber's about right, the cars are not that physically demanding to drive, as other drivers have said, and in terms of really talented drivers the grid is lacking in depth,
I think it's a lot down to how the cars are set up. Vettel didn't have a car the way he wanted it last season, and so got showed up. He's less adaptable than some of the other greats.I think Webber's about right, the cars are not that physically demanding to drive, as other drivers have said, and in terms of really talented drivers the grid is lacking in depth,
In regards to the depth of talent, who is lacking apart from Maldonado? You have Vettel, Hamilton and Alonso as some of the greats. Then Button and Kimi. What other seasons in the past have had lots of better drivers than those?
PW said:
How about next week?
http://www.mastershistoricracing.com/historic-form...
You'd think that given how much people minge on about missing the "good old days" of F1, the historic racing scene would have a MASSIVE following by now.
Unfortunately people would rather pretend that doesn't exist and just complain about F1 on the internet instead, because that doesn't require any actual effort.
http://www.mastershistoricracing.com/historic-form...
You'd think that given how much people minge on about missing the "good old days" of F1, the historic racing scene would have a MASSIVE following by now.
Unfortunately people would rather pretend that doesn't exist and just complain about F1 on the internet instead, because that doesn't require any actual effort.
Being confrontational doesn't require 'any actual effort' on the internet either 
The point was (... and I believe you missed it) we will never see 'wow cars' in F1 again (as intimated by MW)- i.e. in the supposed 'pinnacle' formula of the sport, where the best drivers in the world in 'cutting edge' tech cars are showcased.
Contrary to the accusation, I have expended 'actual effort' watching quite a lot of historic racing in the past (Euroboss, Silverstone Classic, Goodwood etc) and have enjoyed seeing impressive machinery and fully committed and talented drivers, but IME the bulk of stuff out there in F1 historics is DFV powered stuff, lovely machinery, but hardly "20,000 rpm screaming, V10 powered race missiles". Which is what F1 should be, but never will be again.
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