Lotus: An F1 car could do a Le Mans 24hr race distance

[ajprice]

http://en.f1i.com/news/15025-engine-regulations-me...

That's probably fine with their Mercedes engine, maybe not Renault, or Honda...

[MG CHRIS]

Honda and Renault cant make an engine last a f1 race distance let alone a 24hrs race. I also cant see the merc engines making It either.

[DanielSan]

There's not one that could run for 24 hours without issue. Even Mercedes just about lasted in Canada, and that's half the lap size and not as much full throttle.

[carinaman]

Not with their current drivers they couldn't.

[Scuffers]

ajprice said:

http://en.f1i.com/news/15025-engine-regulations-me...

That's probably fine with their Mercedes engine, maybe not Renault, or Honda...

I read that article as F1's st, can we come and screw up WEC for you?

[ajprice]

F1 cars also couldn't keep going after a smash like this. Duval got back to the pits, they put new bodywork on front and back, changed the tyres, topped up with fuel and sent him out to carry on racing. https://youtu.be/cNFrMLfaNys

Audi have built their car to be Maldonado proof

[kambites]

DanielSan said:

There's not one that could run for 24 hours without issue. Even Mercedes just about lasted in Canada, and that's half the lap size and not as much full throttle.

I somehow don't think he's saying you could just pick up as F1 car as configured for a Grand Prix and run it at Le Mans. If nothing else, they'd presumably need to run a much more durable brake compound and probably bigger brakes (and hence bigger wheels) to compensate for the reduced friction. I'd imagine they'd need to fit headlights, too.

Still not convinced the engines could do the distance with no attention, though.

Edited by kambites on Monday 15th June 08:38

[Scuffers]

kambites said:

I somehow don't think he's saying you could just pick up as F1 car as configured for a Grand Prix and run it at Le Mans. If nothing else, they'd presumably need to run a much more durable brake compound and probably bigger brakes (and hence bigger wheels) to compensate for the reduced friction. I'd imagine they'd need to fit headlights, too.

Still not convinced the engines could do the distance with no attention, though.

sure they could do the milage, BUT not at the level they run to now.

[kambites]

Scuffers said:

sure they could do the milage, BUT not at the level they run to now.

That is, of course, a good point. There must be a fair bit of scope for turning down the boost, running longer gear ratios to reduce revs on the long straights, etc.

I wonder how the performance of an F1 car modified to make it viable would compare to an LMP1 car.

[Scuffers]

kambites said:

I wonder how the performance of an F1 car modified to make it viable would compare to an LMP1 car.

the issue will be over aero, LMP cars are much slipperier and can easily match the downforce of an F1 car.

Only issue for LMP is the cars are heavier, and they run to a lower fuel flow limit, (they also run to an 8Mj hybrid limit, not 2/4Mj of F1),

Closed cars will always be faster (all else being equal)

[ajprice]

The LMP1 pole lap time at Silverstone set by Porsche this year was 1:39.7, that would be mid grid in F1 http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/race/sports-cars...

[kambites]

Scuffers said:

kambites said:

I wonder how the performance of an F1 car modified to make it viable would compare to an LMP1 car.

the issue will be over aero, LMP cars are much slipperier and can easily match the downforce of an F1 car.

They can match the downforce in absolute terms but I'd imagine they struggle to match the downforce per unit mass and hence the cornering speeds?

I guess on a track like Le Mans, the extra top-end speed makes a huge difference, though. If they're roughly on the pace of an F1 car at Silverstone, they'd presumably be quicker at Le Mans? And of course that's without the modifications you'd have to make to an F1 car to make it last 24 hours.

Edited by kambites on Monday 15th June 09:37

[Scuffers]

kambites said:

They can match the downforce in absolute terms but I'd imagine they struggle to match the downforce per unit mass and hence the cornering speeds?

nope, closed body cars have far higher potential for downforce, once you start to use under-floor tunnels etc, makes F1 levels of downforce look mickey-mouse.

even back in the group C days, they were achieving over 3 tonnes of downforce (@200Mph)

[Auntieroll]

Unless you were Mercedes!

[Scuffers]

Auntieroll said:

Unless you were Mercedes!

Aco were told flat bottom cars were at risk, but they ignored the report and mandated flat floors.

As usual the people setting the regs got it catastrophically wrong.

[kambites]

Scuffers said:

nope, closed body cars have far higher potential for downforce, once you start to use under-floor tunnels etc, makes F1 levels of downforce look mickey-mouse.

even back in the group C days, they were achieving over 3 tonnes of downforce (@200Mph)

I know closed body designs have a fundamental advantage in terms of aero. I'm asking about current cars conforming to the two formulae in question.

[MartG]

A pity that the ACO don't see eye-to-eye with Bernie & Co. - I think it would be interesting to see the return of the French GP on the full Le Mans circuit, though with only 20 cars the track would seem rather empty

[jimi]

24hrs of nose to tail F1 action would be so very dull. The proper Le Mans race was awesome.

[Scuffers]

kambites said:

I know closed body designs have a fundamental advantage in terms of aero. I'm asking about current cars conforming to the two formulae in question.

can't find any figures for the current LMP1 cars, best I can do is from a generic 2011 LMP2 car, quoted at 1,600Kg's @200Mph

best figure I can see for a current 2015 F1 car are in the order of 1,100-1,400Kg's @200Mph (albeit with a much higher lift/drag ratio)

[kambites]

Scuffers said:

can't find any figures for the current LMP1 cars, best I can do is from a generic 2011 LMP2 car, quoted at 1,600Kg's @200Mph

best figure I can see for a current 2015 F1 car are in the order of 1,100-1,400Kg's @200Mph (albeit with a much higher lift/drag ratio)

That'd market he F1 car marginally better then (at least in the higher downforce setting) since it's about, what, 70% of the weight?

Edited by kambites on Monday 15th June 14:45