What F1 should be, in my view. How can we get this back?
Discussion
Hello everyone. If you have a few minutes, have a look at the video, and ideally listen through headphones or with good quality speakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMVTTG-uuiQ
I am just wondering how we have got so far from this........Even through an old low-res video, the atmosphere is palpable and cars are viscerally mind-blowing.
I realize quite often back then (as now), the races could be processional, but what a procession! I would so love to have anything approaching that kind of F1 back now.
What do you think we could do to try to make it impressive again?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMVTTG-uuiQ
I am just wondering how we have got so far from this........Even through an old low-res video, the atmosphere is palpable and cars are viscerally mind-blowing.
I realize quite often back then (as now), the races could be processional, but what a procession! I would so love to have anything approaching that kind of F1 back now.
What do you think we could do to try to make it impressive again?
Am I the only person who found the continual noise a bit wearing? One of the reasons I used to prefer the stands rather than have my face pushed into the fencing at the trackside was that I would not have a headache halfway through the race.
I was at Brands in 85, European GP, and was standing right up against the fence and as the cars accelerated out of the corner, the exhausts pointed directly to us. Those Hondas were loud.
I was at Brands in 85, European GP, and was standing right up against the fence and as the cars accelerated out of the corner, the exhausts pointed directly to us. Those Hondas were loud.
No you are not the only one.
I much prefer the current sound of the cars, both in F1 and at Le Mans, the low flying jet wooosh is much easier to live with that the stupid loud noise of the GP2 or even the wec 458s. I hated the 458s, high pitch wail, with no tempo, compared to say the Astons or the corvettes. Would literally hurt my ears sitting in the main stand.
G
I much prefer the current sound of the cars, both in F1 and at Le Mans, the low flying jet wooosh is much easier to live with that the stupid loud noise of the GP2 or even the wec 458s. I hated the 458s, high pitch wail, with no tempo, compared to say the Astons or the corvettes. Would literally hurt my ears sitting in the main stand.
G
Blayney said:
A lot of that is the sound I reckon.
They are talking of raised rev limits, louder cars, wider rear tyres and getting on for 1000bhp.
Maybe that will help.
We still go to a lot of giant car parks though. I'm glad Austria is back though.
That would do it plus a tyre that they can race on. It should be a sprint race from lap one to lap 50,60,70 etc... Balls out for 2 hours. They are talking of raised rev limits, louder cars, wider rear tyres and getting on for 1000bhp.
Maybe that will help.
We still go to a lot of giant car parks though. I'm glad Austria is back though.
the cars are now too easy to drive fast
and that is the fundamental issue
F1 should be gladiatorial and Epic
the very pinnacle of motorsport
half the divers should be just about able to drive the cars
the other half demigods who can wrestle a mad slavering beast through a series of corners and arrive at the other side punching the air that they didn't die
then do it again for 2 hours
and get to the end and collapse
the sport needs to have some excitement
some feeling of human endevor
not a mental exercise in tyre and fuel management
its meant to be a spectacle and entertaining
I used to watch every race (since I was 10) and now I watched 1 races worth of highlights last year and none this year
the spectacle has gone
I hope
I really, really hope that it comes back
1000bhp & wide tyres etc sounds like a good plan but I suspect it will still be dull
and that is the fundamental issue
F1 should be gladiatorial and Epic
the very pinnacle of motorsport
half the divers should be just about able to drive the cars
the other half demigods who can wrestle a mad slavering beast through a series of corners and arrive at the other side punching the air that they didn't die
then do it again for 2 hours
and get to the end and collapse
the sport needs to have some excitement
some feeling of human endevor
not a mental exercise in tyre and fuel management
its meant to be a spectacle and entertaining
I used to watch every race (since I was 10) and now I watched 1 races worth of highlights last year and none this year
the spectacle has gone
I hope
I really, really hope that it comes back
1000bhp & wide tyres etc sounds like a good plan but I suspect it will still be dull
Sack 250 of the team personnel leaving only 50 as a maximum available pool of staff. That would -
a) slash the budgets
b) reduce the technical capability of the team
c) reduce the "knowledge base" available
Racing cars are at their most exciting when the designers aren't really sure what they are doing.
a) slash the budgets
b) reduce the technical capability of the team
c) reduce the "knowledge base" available
Racing cars are at their most exciting when the designers aren't really sure what they are doing.
The problem is that looking forward is always going to give us predictable, stable (and perhaps quiet) cars.
We simply know way too much now to make cars that handle badly, slip and slide all over the track, can't handle their power etc etc etc.
In other words, no engineer worth his professional salt would ever design a car that would look exciting to a motor sport fan.
We simply know way too much now to make cars that handle badly, slip and slide all over the track, can't handle their power etc etc etc.
In other words, no engineer worth his professional salt would ever design a car that would look exciting to a motor sport fan.
I think there's some memory mix 'n matching going on here. The 1000bhp cars were turbos, which were 4cyl or V6, and were 600bhp in race trim. These weren't the cars that sounded so good. The loud waily V12s were 700ish bhp, and had less of a power spread than the current ones. Apart from the unassisted steering and manual gearchange I'd have thought the modern cars are more tricky to drive than the old V12s, with their wall of torque and somewhat unpredictable delivery. Last year in particular I really enjoyed seeing the drivers wrestling with stabs of oversteer all over the place. But regardless of the rules the car that slides around the least will be fastest so the engineers and designers will always be working towards making a car that the driver is less likely to crash, miss a gearchange in, buzz the engine or miss a few apexes in, because while mistakes look exciting to us, they look like race losing moments to the team.
To be honest I think I must be one of the few who has never been all that bothered with how the cars sound, at least on TV, and in fact at the start of last year when the rest of the world was kicking off about how quiet they were I actually found it quite interesting to be able to hear the tyres squealing for the first time and it, plus the sliding around, both made me feel that the drivers are still trying hard.
To be honest I think I must be one of the few who has never been all that bothered with how the cars sound, at least on TV, and in fact at the start of last year when the rest of the world was kicking off about how quiet they were I actually found it quite interesting to be able to hear the tyres squealing for the first time and it, plus the sliding around, both made me feel that the drivers are still trying hard.
Last year the cars slid around a lot - which was better to watch. However, this year they seem far more planted - as the engineers have obviously sorted some of the power delivery issues of last year.
And that will always be the case. The first year of a totally new formula will produce cars that are "interesting" to watch. If the formula progresses unchanged, then the cars will become more predictable.
The secret is to make frequent and fundamental changes. Keep the tecchies on their toes.
And that will always be the case. The first year of a totally new formula will produce cars that are "interesting" to watch. If the formula progresses unchanged, then the cars will become more predictable.
The secret is to make frequent and fundamental changes. Keep the tecchies on their toes.
Manual clutches and replace the gear change paddles for a lever (keeping sequential)
Limit surface area of upper body downforce generating surfaces.
Heavily limit chassis and aero design expenditure but allow more testing
Open up engine regs but keep 100kg starting limit
Shorten races slightly
Somehow make the tyres less sensitive to thermal without making them too durable
Proposed power increases, width and tyre size increases are a step in the right direction.
Limit surface area of upper body downforce generating surfaces.
Heavily limit chassis and aero design expenditure but allow more testing
Open up engine regs but keep 100kg starting limit
Shorten races slightly
Somehow make the tyres less sensitive to thermal without making them too durable
Proposed power increases, width and tyre size increases are a step in the right direction.
Eric Mc said:
Last year the cars slid around a lot - which was better to watch. However, this year they seem far more planted - as the engineers have obviously sorted some of the power delivery issues of last year.
And that will always be the case. The first year of a totally new formula will produce cars that are "interesting" to watch. If the formula progresses unchanged, then the cars will become more predictable.
The secret is to make frequent and fundamental changes. Keep the tecchies on their toes.
We have a spec tyre. It's a big part of what we've lost in the show tbh.And that will always be the case. The first year of a totally new formula will produce cars that are "interesting" to watch. If the formula progresses unchanged, then the cars will become more predictable.
The secret is to make frequent and fundamental changes. Keep the tecchies on their toes.
So, we have the FIA tell Pirelli that in 2017 max lateral grip for the tyres is to be generated at 20-30% slip at 'x' load for testing.
Sorted, back to all 4 wheels visibly sliding on the apex, helping the spectacle and making it harder to balance a car on the limit.
Edited by PhillipM on Saturday 13th June 14:12
PhillipM said:
We have a spec tyre. It's a big part of what we've lost in the show tbh.
So, we have the FIA tell Pirelli that in 2017 max lateral grip for the tyres is to be generated at 20-30% slip at 'x' load for testing.
Sorted, back to all 4 wheels visibly sliding on the apex, helping the spectacle and making it harder to balance a car on the limit.
The tyres are better than they were 4 or 5 seasons ago, but I agree with this. The one change really needed is tyres that don't overheat and die when the driver is following another car or does a doughnut.So, we have the FIA tell Pirelli that in 2017 max lateral grip for the tyres is to be generated at 20-30% slip at 'x' load for testing.
Sorted, back to all 4 wheels visibly sliding on the apex, helping the spectacle and making it harder to balance a car on the limit.
Edited by PhillipM on Saturday 13th June 14:12
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