Is the test ban ruining F1
Discussion
Powertrain testing in season or out of season is only limited by the budget of the PU manufacturer. Honda could have a complete McLaren backend set-up on dyno in tokyo or MK if they wanted to sort out why the system seems to lunch its self regularly. Ferrari ditto and considering their general reliability I'd wager they actually do have one somewhere within Maranello.
What about the younger drviers getting experience? During the conference on Thursday didn't Button criticise Verstappen for saying he was brake tested at Monaco.
Perhaps testing wouldn't have made any difference in that situation, but the youngsters weren't given the opportunity to get test mileage like Button & Hamilton did when they were coming up. Perhaps F1 being not much faster and GP2 and simulators means that drivers coming up don't need test mileage so much? Would the young Red Bull drivers rejected after not much of an oportunity to prove themselves have benefitted from testing mileage.
Would the safety of F1 been improved if youngsters coming up had had the opportunity to get more test mileage?
Perhaps Verstappen doing so well at Monaco having never driven there before shows that drivers don't need testing mileage?
Perhaps testing wouldn't have made any difference in that situation, but the youngsters weren't given the opportunity to get test mileage like Button & Hamilton did when they were coming up. Perhaps F1 being not much faster and GP2 and simulators means that drivers coming up don't need test mileage so much? Would the young Red Bull drivers rejected after not much of an oportunity to prove themselves have benefitted from testing mileage.
Would the safety of F1 been improved if youngsters coming up had had the opportunity to get more test mileage?
Perhaps Verstappen doing so well at Monaco having never driven there before shows that drivers don't need testing mileage?
Button never had any test mileage, he had a few tests for McLaren, Prost & Williams but thats all. By the time Lewis was coming along test bands were in place IIRC - he would have done simulator work if anything. Established drivers complaining about the new boy is hardly a new situation, testing or otherwise.
Teams are generally against large amounts of testing because of the expense, either way as pointed out above Honda could have an engine being tested 24/7.. just takes time to get to the top. Honda's main problem is that their return was massively overhyped - many people just assumed they'd instantly match Mercedes. When it comes down to it Mercedes have dominated engine wise for how long ? 15 years ? maybe more back to Mika's era ? It was a huge ask to get anywhere close to be honest.
They will get there sooner or later.
Teams are generally against large amounts of testing because of the expense, either way as pointed out above Honda could have an engine being tested 24/7.. just takes time to get to the top. Honda's main problem is that their return was massively overhyped - many people just assumed they'd instantly match Mercedes. When it comes down to it Mercedes have dominated engine wise for how long ? 15 years ? maybe more back to Mika's era ? It was a huge ask to get anywhere close to be honest.
They will get there sooner or later.
Adrian W said:
The powertrain testing can't be that straightforward, there is no way a company like Honda would get it so dramatically wrong, the testing rules must apply to powetrain development as well, otherwise I would expect the dyno' to be running 24 hours a day seven days a week.
sadly it is..they could have 100+ engines on dyno's so far as the rules are concerned.
all they are not allowed to do is run it in an F1 car on a track.
The pre 2009 Honda engine wasn't bad, its just the chassis/aero sucked and Honda as an organisation couldn't run an effective F1 team, which is why they hired Ross Brawn.
The 2009 Brawn's advantage was down to the fact that Brawn came in, got the team structured so it could work effectively and then gave the aero team the target of the diffuser/blown bits etc whilst making sure the chassis was at least half decent. Supremely poor timing given the state of the world in 2008, Honda felt morally obliged to pull out.
Had Honda continued I think they would have still won the WCC/WDC, possibly it may have been a little easier as there would have been more money for in season development, which Brawn barely did due to running the whole set up on a shoestring - the rest of the teams were catching up fast in the second half of the year.
The 2009 Brawn's advantage was down to the fact that Brawn came in, got the team structured so it could work effectively and then gave the aero team the target of the diffuser/blown bits etc whilst making sure the chassis was at least half decent. Supremely poor timing given the state of the world in 2008, Honda felt morally obliged to pull out.
Had Honda continued I think they would have still won the WCC/WDC, possibly it may have been a little easier as there would have been more money for in season development, which Brawn barely did due to running the whole set up on a shoestring - the rest of the teams were catching up fast in the second half of the year.
Crafty_ said:
The pre 2009 Honda engine wasn't bad, its just the chassis/aero sucked and Honda as an organisation couldn't run an effective F1 team, which is why they hired Ross Brawn.
The 2009 Brawn's advantage was down to the fact that Brawn came in, got the team structured so it could work effectively and then gave the aero team the target of the diffuser/blown bits etc whilst making sure the chassis was at least half decent. Supremely poor timing given the state of the world in 2008, Honda felt morally obliged to pull out.
Had Honda continued I think they would have still won the WCC/WDC, possibly it may have been a little easier as there would have been more money for in season development, which Brawn barely did due to running the whole set up on a shoestring - the rest of the teams were catching up fast in the second half of the year.
not forgetting that the car was not designed by Honda either (super aguri)The 2009 Brawn's advantage was down to the fact that Brawn came in, got the team structured so it could work effectively and then gave the aero team the target of the diffuser/blown bits etc whilst making sure the chassis was at least half decent. Supremely poor timing given the state of the world in 2008, Honda felt morally obliged to pull out.
Had Honda continued I think they would have still won the WCC/WDC, possibly it may have been a little easier as there would have been more money for in season development, which Brawn barely did due to running the whole set up on a shoestring - the rest of the teams were catching up fast in the second half of the year.
Scuffers said:
Crafty_ said:
The pre 2009 Honda engine wasn't bad, its just the chassis/aero sucked and Honda as an organisation couldn't run an effective F1 team, which is why they hired Ross Brawn.
The 2009 Brawn's advantage was down to the fact that Brawn came in, got the team structured so it could work effectively and then gave the aero team the target of the diffuser/blown bits etc whilst making sure the chassis was at least half decent. Supremely poor timing given the state of the world in 2008, Honda felt morally obliged to pull out.
Had Honda continued I think they would have still won the WCC/WDC, possibly it may have been a little easier as there would have been more money for in season development, which Brawn barely did due to running the whole set up on a shoestring - the rest of the teams were catching up fast in the second half of the year.
not forgetting that the car was not designed by Honda either (super aguri)The 2009 Brawn's advantage was down to the fact that Brawn came in, got the team structured so it could work effectively and then gave the aero team the target of the diffuser/blown bits etc whilst making sure the chassis was at least half decent. Supremely poor timing given the state of the world in 2008, Honda felt morally obliged to pull out.
Had Honda continued I think they would have still won the WCC/WDC, possibly it may have been a little easier as there would have been more money for in season development, which Brawn barely did due to running the whole set up on a shoestring - the rest of the teams were catching up fast in the second half of the year.
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