Rumours of cars with 'extra tanks'

Rumours of cars with 'extra tanks'

Author
Discussion

Doink

Original Poster:

1,655 posts

153 months

Sunday 10th May 2015
quotequote all
It was suspected some teams – perhaps Ferrari and Mercedes – had found a way to increase fuel flow at certain moments whilst always ensuring the FIA’s fuel flow meter was not alerted.

Fascinatingly, as the controversy returned to the agenda in Barcelona, Mercedes’ team boss Toto Wolff admitted to Stuttgarter Nachrichten newspaper that Lewis Hamilton and Nico Rosberg have at their disposal an “additional mode”

to deploy in qualifying.

But Niki Lauda, Mercedes’ team chairman, says he has heard other “rumours”.

“There are rumours that some teams have an extra (fuel) tank, and once it fills up it to the right amount can be used in the race,” he told German television RTL.

Lauda might be referring to the fact that while Ferrari normally trails the Mercedes in qualifying, the red cars are often much closer to the ultimate pace in races.

F1’s governing body said in a technical directive issued to teams in Barcelona that, with “immediate effect”, fuel pressure must “remain constant”.

“We will also be carrying out careful physical inspections of all fuel systems in use,” race director Charlie Whiting added.

As for Lauda’s claims of an ‘extra tank’, the F1 legend and triple world champion added: “These are all rumours, but what is certainly true is that from now on it no longer happens


Has he got a point?

anonymous-user

60 months

Sunday 10th May 2015
quotequote all
Just trying to spice up a boring weekend with some controversy i expect.

anonymous-user

60 months

Sunday 10th May 2015
quotequote all
Define a tank.

The only fuel flow limit is that measured by the fia sensor, so you would have to be a bit dumb to not build in a fuel accumulator post that sensor.

LaurasOtherHalf

21,429 posts

202 months

Sunday 10th May 2015
quotequote all
Anyone notice the Ferrari had disappeared from parc ferme before the champagne had been sprayed?

Doink

Original Poster:

1,655 posts

153 months

Sunday 10th May 2015
quotequote all
jsf said:
Define a tank.

The only fuel flow limit is that measured by the fia sensor, so you would have to be a bit dumb to not build in a fuel accumulator post that sensor.
Bit dumb of the fia to place the sensor so early on in the fuel system then?

anonymous-user

60 months

Sunday 10th May 2015
quotequote all
Doink said:
Bit dumb of the fia to place the sensor so early on in the fuel system then?
Probably the only place it would survive is in the fuel tank.

They can't use the injector flow to police it either as that was rejected by the FIA during the Red Bull post Australia 2014 hearings.


Doink

Original Poster:

1,655 posts

153 months

Sunday 10th May 2015
quotequote all
If true then what they're doing is buffering the fuel after the sensor has already counted it. It's illegal per the regulations (5.10.5) but it wouldn't actually be hard to do. The 100kg/hr rate is sampled 5 times per second, so they're really measuring it as 5.56g-per-sample, or an average of 27.8g-per-second. These small amounts of fuel would be very easy to hide in the system to give short bursts of extra power.

If you have a small surge tank in the fuel system (similar to a household water pressure-tank, but disguised as something else like a "fuel pressure regulator") after the flow sensor that can hold 27.8g worth of fuel, then you can keep the fuel pump flowing 27.8g/s through the sensor for 1 second after lifting off the throttle, fill up your surge tank with 27.8g of fuel downstream of the sensor, now you have extra fuel you can send through the injectors that's already been counted by the flow sensor.

That doesn't sound like much, but considering the engine makes ~640hp @ 27.8g/sec at full throttle, then 1 second worth of fuel, 27.8g, could give you ~640hp boost for 1 second (would break your gearbox), or ~64hp boost for 10 seconds (more feasible), or ~32hp for 20 seconds (very feasible) etc, each time you do this.

Now you floor the accelerator down the straight, pulling 27.8g/s through the sensor plus 2.78g/s out of your surge tank (total of 30.6g/s) until it's empty, now you've got a 64hp boost for 10 seconds without ever making your fuel flow sensor read higher than 27.8g/s at any point in time because some of your fuel had already been metered.

RacingPete

8,948 posts

210 months

Monday 11th May 2015
quotequote all
Doink said:
Useful stuff
Thanks for that, fascinating stuff.

patch5674

297 posts

118 months

Monday 11th May 2015
quotequote all
@Doink, THAT, is what Forums should be about. Learning and sharing, Cheers.

Dunit

643 posts

211 months

Monday 11th May 2015
quotequote all
Apparantly Ferrari tried this system in testing during the winter, And one of the mercs was caught with funny spikes in the readouts in 1st practice ?? This caused the FIA to issue a directive that no spikes will be allowed.
Which seems to reined in the Red Cars somewhat.