THE MAN ON THE MONEY
Discussion
As one of the few F1 journalists who put some effort into researching the opaque finances of F1, Joe Saward has produced this table from his best guess of available sources. As always, it makes for interesting reading.
https://joesaward.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/f1-p...
https://joesaward.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/f1-p...
Pints said:
Good information. Thanks.
Can anyone explain the 5% Ferrari get? I was vaguely aware they get special funding of sorts, but is it really just a case of Ferrari getting $90m because they're Ferrari?
Ridiculous IMO, however apparently:Can anyone explain the 5% Ferrari get? I was vaguely aware they get special funding of sorts, but is it really just a case of Ferrari getting $90m because they're Ferrari?
"The way the money is divided may sound unfair, but it's believed that almost all the teams on the grid back Ferrari's 2.5% bonus and insist it is included in the next Concorde Agreement as the manufacturers presence on the grid brings with it credibility, and therefore boosts the prize fund more so than it takes in 'extra' payments."
Pints said:
Good information. Thanks.
Can anyone explain the 5% Ferrari get? I was vaguely aware they get special funding of sorts, but is it really just a case of Ferrari getting $90m because they're Ferrari?
Yes it was LdM's big achievement. Bernie's method has always been to divide and rule, so you buy the consent of the big teams and screw the little ones.Can anyone explain the 5% Ferrari get? I was vaguely aware they get special funding of sorts, but is it really just a case of Ferrari getting $90m because they're Ferrari?
rdjohn said:
Yes it was LdM's big achievement. Bernie's method has always been to divide and rule, so you buy the consent of the big teams and screw the little ones.
Well worth reading Bernie's biography "No Angel". Though not in detail most of this is discussed and as rdjohn says.In short the teams couldn't organise a piss up in brewery and continually fight. Bernie buys the support of key members with sweetener deals in order to progress.
Agent Orange said:
Well worth reading Bernie's biography "No Angel". Though not in detail most of this is discussed and as rdjohn says.
In short the teams couldn't organise a piss up in brewery and continually fight. Bernie buys the support of key members with sweetener deals in order to progress.
In short, the teams compete against one-another week in and week out. What is in the interest of one might cause problems for another.In short the teams couldn't organise a piss up in brewery and continually fight. Bernie buys the support of key members with sweetener deals in order to progress.
The teams did organise of course, and quite successfully. So successfully that Ecclestone was forced to buy one of them off.
Ferrari believes itself to be the biggest team in the pitlane and this specialness has been supported by Ecclestone for some years now.
With some teams being in it for the long haul, such as McLaren and Williams, others coming and going, there is hardly common ground.
RB get into second position merely because they have lots of money.
It is, for the teams like McLaren and Williams, 'the only game in town'.
What has stirred it up a little is the presence of Merc who see themselves as having an advantage over all the other teams. They seem to be doing a bit of bossing about.
Wolff presents himself as being Mr Reasonable, the voice of common sense and happy to make concessions if need be but I reckon it is a front. No one is that nice in this sport, at least no one at the front. Or in the middle even.
Jasandjules said:
I think the lower teams would have less to complain about IF the costs were as they were promised.
It is quite incredible just how much money there is.
Indeed; there is a huge amount of cash washing around F1, it's just the distribution of it that needs seriously looking at. As I said on another thread, they should maybe look at the Premier League and how that distributes cash - they recignise that not every team has the financial resources, and to avoid creating a tiny elite of clubs who can afford to buy the best, they have parachute payments for teams that are relegated so they have a chance to buy the resources they need to get back into the top flight.It is quite incredible just how much money there is.
Vaguely related, Haas reckons he's seen a $50m uplift in sales since announcing his F1 project: http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/gene-haas-it-wil...
Beer Man said:
I see Mr Horner has piped, well 'squeaked', up about F1 finances on the BBC news and how the small teams should stop airing their woes in public.
That's very good of you Mr Horner considering you're backed by a multi multi billion $ company.
I saw that and rolled my eyes also. Assuming he's not been misquoted the he doesn't come off well does he.That's very good of you Mr Horner considering you're backed by a multi multi billion $ company.
Would the amount of money a team had available plotted against how many points they have scored indicate how efficiently they spent their money?
Can't count:
Sauber: $72,600,000 received, 0 points
Caterham: $59,000,000 received, 0 points
...but it puts them way, way at the bottom.
| Team | Funding Received per Point Scored (so far in 2014) |
|---|---|
| Mercedes | $231,907 per point scored |
| Williams | $394,957 per point scored |
| Red Bull | $558,402 per point scored |
| Force India | $659,349 per point scored |
| McLaren | $816,326 per point scored |
| Ferrari | $1,068,367 per point scored |
| Toro Rosso | $2,276,666 per point scored |
| Marussia | $5,000,000 per point scored |
Can't count:
Sauber: $72,600,000 received, 0 points
Caterham: $59,000,000 received, 0 points
...but it puts them way, way at the bottom.
Crafty_ said:
Vaguely related, Haas reckons he's seen a $50m uplift in sales since announcing his F1 project: http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/gene-haas-it-wil...
Turnover is vanity; profit is sanity; The most important issue, in business, that everyone in F1, bar Bernie, seems to ignore.Beer Man said:
I see Mr Horner has piped, well 'squeaked', up about F1 finances on the BBC news and how the small teams should stop airing their woes in public.
That's very good of you Mr Horner considering you're backed by a multi multi billion $ company.
He seems to have forgotten this - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/26790864 - pot, kettle and black are words which spring to mind. That's very good of you Mr Horner considering you're backed by a multi multi billion $ company.
There are genuine reasons for concerns over finance from some teams as Bernie has pretty much acknowledged, Horner should at least do the same.
rdjohn said:
Turnover is vanity; profit is sanity; The most important issue, in business, that everyone in F1, bar Bernie, seems to ignore.
Haas Automation makes plenty of profit.
The point is that being associated with F1 has seen an upturn in sales. This is why he's interested as he wants to crack the Euro & Asian markets to bring awareness of the company/products.
andyps said:
Beer Man said:
I see Mr Horner has piped, well 'squeaked', up about F1 finances on the BBC news and how the small teams should stop airing their woes in public.
That's very good of you Mr Horner considering you're backed by a multi multi billion $ company.
He seems to have forgotten this - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/26790864 - pot, kettle and black are words which spring to mind. That's very good of you Mr Horner considering you're backed by a multi multi billion $ company.
There are genuine reasons for concerns over finance from some teams as Bernie has pretty much acknowledged, Horner should at least do the same.
Crafty_ said:
rdjohn said:
Turnover is vanity; profit is sanity; The most important issue, in business, that everyone in F1, bar Bernie, seems to ignore.
Haas Automation makes plenty of profit.
The point is that being associated with F1 has seen an upturn in sales. This is why he's interested as he wants to crack the Euro & Asian markets to bring awareness of the company/products.
ie, all the benefits of running in F1 without the expense!
Scuffers said:
a less charitable view would be that he's performed a very shrewd marketing move here, minimal spend for 2 years worth of publicity (and then never actually turns up in 2016).
ie, all the benefits of running in F1 without the expense!
Yep, he's built an entire 125,000sqft factory in North Carolina for nothing ie, all the benefits of running in F1 without the expense!
Gaz. said:
It's like playing Monopoly where you (Marussia) receive M200 for passing Go, and then the next player receives M1800 for turning up then a further M900 for being in the top ten most successful players on the board and a further M1100 for being the third most succesful player on the board, and this is ontop of their earnings from their hotels on Regent Street, Oxford Street & Bond Street while you look forlornly at your single Gas Works card.
If Monopoly used F1's financing system, would you play? You'd tell the banker to do one because you're going to play Snakes & Ladders instead...
Best thing i've read on here so far! Ok not been here long but take the praise as its given. If Monopoly used F1's financing system, would you play? You'd tell the banker to do one because you're going to play Snakes & Ladders instead...
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