Compressed air cylinder, not a compressor?

[Megaflow]

Just watching Ted interviewing CH, and seeing the guy dismantling the gas bottles for the air guns in the back ground, why do the F1 teams use bottled air instead of directly from a compressor for pit stops?

[Inertiatic]

Presumably acts as a buffer so you get a constant steady air supply. Compressors can give variable flow

[PhillipM]

And you want a big reservoir to reduce pressure drop.

Interestingly, I thing the Red Bull front wheel guns were battery powered this race, I haven't noticed that before.

[Sixpackpert]

PhillipM said:

Interestingly, I thing the Red Bull front wheel guns were battery powered this race, I haven't noticed that before.

They are for adjusting the wing angle. They turn a predetermined amount of turns.

[Ahonen]

PhillipM said:

And you want a big reservoir to reduce pressure drop.

Interestingly, I thing the Red Bull front wheel guns were battery powered this race, I haven't noticed that before.

Yep, a compressor could never supply the required volumes of air needed.

I'd be astonished if RB used battery guns for anything other than the front wing adjust.

[Megaflow]

I guessed that would be why, just wanted to idiot check myself.

[petery]

Wheel guns will work at a massively high pressure much higher than any normal compressor can work at, the air bottles will be filled at about 300bar with an out put of something like 40bar to operate the air guns to the torque required for the wheel nuts

Edited by petery on Monday 13th October 18:11

[Doink]

They used to use helium as it was denser than air and rotated the guns faster meaning faster pit stops, helium is also a non-renewable resource that cannot be practically manufactured from other materials. When released into the atmosphere, e.g., when a helium-filled balloon leaks or bursts, it eventually escapes into space and is permanently lost, I think they use nitrogen now so that would explain the bottles

[garycat]

Doink said:

They used to use helium as it was denser than air and rotated the guns faster meaning faster pit stops, helium is also a non-renewable resource that cannot be practically manufactured from other materials. When released into the atmosphere, e.g., when a helium-filled balloon leaks or bursts, it eventually escapes into space and is permanently lost, I think they use nitrogen now so that would explain the bottles

Are you sure about that? It is certainly not denser at atmospheric pressure.

[Big Al.]

Too many moving parts to fail on a compressor, as long as the bottle is charged you only have to open a valve for it to work!

[Doink]

Physics and chemistry were never my best subjects but I believe they did use helium pretty sure of it, in fact I'm sure Ted briefly mentioned something like this a few notebooks ago, also said the guns have 2000 torques, 4 times that of a veyron

[thegreenhell]

Even on the cheapest compressor for home use, like you can buy from Halfords or Machine Mart, the air feed for your tools is from the bottle, with the compressor itself just keeping the bottle charged.

[Scuffers]

Doink said:

Physics and chemistry were never my best subjects but I believe they did use helium pretty sure of it, in fact I'm sure Ted briefly mentioned something like this a few notebooks ago, also said the guns have 2000 torques, 4 times that of a veyron

More Ted bks then...

Helium is atomic number 2, only hydrogen is lighter.

Nitrogen is used because its cheap and dry.

Also, this is not top gear, cut the torques st.

No idea what the torque for F1 nuts are, pretty sure it's nowhere near 2000lbft though, highest i have seen is 700 for big nutted GT stuff.

[Speedy11]

Scuffers said:

Doink said:

Physics and chemistry were never my best subjects but I believe they did use helium pretty sure of it, in fact I'm sure Ted briefly mentioned something like this a few notebooks ago, also said the guns have 2000 torques, 4 times that of a veyron

More Ted bks then...

Helium is atomic number 2, only hydrogen is lighter.

Nitrogen is used because its cheap and dry.

Also, this is not top gear, cut the torques st.

No idea what the torque for F1 nuts are, pretty sure it's nowhere near 2000lbft though, highest i have seen is 700 for big nutted GT stuff.

They did use helium as it allowed the guns to turn a little faster but was banned because of the cost.

They will use bottles as they will have higher pressures, take up less space, the air will be dry etc

Also you can get guns way over 2000lb-ft

http://paoliwheelguns.com/it/prodotti_dett/?prod=4...

[PhillipM]

And you want them, because when that nut has got stuck due to the brake heat or the wheel having a tap or two, it needs to come off asap, even if the nut gets destroyed in the process.

[phumy]

Just been very reliably informed by a current F1 Mechanic with Force India that the wheel gun cylinders are pressurised to between 30 and 32 bar of Nitrogen and the guns give a torque of around 600lb/ft. However some teams might run slightly higher pressure but torque will be similar.

[Scuffers]

phumy said:

Just been very reliably informed by a current F1 Mechanic with Force India that the wheel gun cylinders are pressurised to between 30 and 32 bar of Nitrogen and the guns give a torque of around 600lb/ft. However some teams might run slightly higher pressure but torque will be similar.

sounds about right...

(except for the cylinder pressure bit, what he is saying is that's that the pressure regs are set to, the cylinders will be more like 300Bar - industry standard)

[d3dna]

Scuffers said:

phumy said:

Just been very reliably informed by a current F1 Mechanic with Force India that the wheel gun cylinders are pressurised to between 30 and 32 bar of Nitrogen and the guns give a torque of around 600lb/ft. However some teams might run slightly higher pressure but torque will be similar.

sounds about right...

(except for the cylinder pressure bit, what he is saying is that's that the pressure regs are set to, the cylinders will be more like 300Bar - industry standard)

I think having a single/double 300 bar cylinder(s) in an active pit lane isn't a smart idea. So it could explain why they are using multiple (eg. 4) cylinders at lower pressures with a common regulator between them.

[RichB]

Doink said:

Physics and chemistry were never my best subjects...

No, but forget physics and think about the logic of what you said and ask what does a kiddies helium filled balloon do? It goes up

Doink said:

They used to use helium as it was denser than air <clip> when a helium-filled balloon etc....

[Scuffers]

d3dna said:

I think having a single/double 300 bar cylinder(s) in an active pit lane isn't a smart idea. So it could explain why they are using multiple (eg. 4) cylinders at lower pressures with a common regulator between them.

come again?

have you any concept of the volume of gas required to run an airgun? (let alone 4 of them)

if the tanks were at 40Bar, they would not make a single tyre change as the pressure would fall like a stone as the first gun is used.

In any case, what's the problem with 300Bar cylinders? remember, these are commercial robust items that are dropped and kicked about every day, they are more than capable of withstanding a car hitting one.