The Clive James F1 Show 1997
Discussion
skeggysteve said:
Thanks for the link. Brought back memories. I liked the 'mutual respect' between Head and Hill.
Also, it reminded me of the excitement at the time. Nothing much has changed in F1 in that respect.
1997 was a sort of watershed in F1. Things seemed to turn a bit nasty and court cases abounded after that.
I think 41997 was probably the peak for F1 enthusiasm in the UK. Mansell had brought a lot of new interest into the sport from 1985 onwards and the Hill v' Schumacher battles of the mid 1990 (culminating in Hill's World Championship in 1996) kept the enthusiasm level up.
The sacking of Hill by Williams and his move to Arrows was a major blow to F1 in Britain and the total domination by Schumacher started a slide that has not really been reversed yet - if ever.
The sacking of Hill by Williams and his move to Arrows was a major blow to F1 in Britain and the total domination by Schumacher started a slide that has not really been reversed yet - if ever.
They didn't rate him.
They were wrong.
Apart from the 1997 championship of Villenueve, in a car which Hill, as a test driver, had contributed massively to its development, Williams faded as a major power after his departure.
They are only showing signs of recover now, almost 20 years later.
They were wrong.
Apart from the 1997 championship of Villenueve, in a car which Hill, as a test driver, had contributed massively to its development, Williams faded as a major power after his departure.
They are only showing signs of recover now, almost 20 years later.
Plus they lost Newey to McLaren and Renault engines. BMW didn't come until 2000 and they didn't win a race until 2001 with Ralf Schumacher. They had a handful of wins until the last one by Montoya in Brazil 2004. Then the real drought began.
I remember the decision to drop Hill as being odd but I think it was a contributory factor. Yes, Hill was underrated.
I remember the decision to drop Hill as being odd but I think it was a contributory factor. Yes, Hill was underrated.
Eric Mc said:
......Williams faded as a major power after his departure.
They are only showing signs of recover now, almost 20 years later.
You seem to give a hell of a lot of credit to Hill. I like him and I reckon many people underrate him but it seems unlikely that his much reputed testing skill was such a telling loss. His performance in '95 seems to have been the nail in his career at Williams. It's thought their car was the best in that year, particularly the first half, but Hill failed to deliver - although the car let in down when he was in the lead in the first race in Brazil. Frentzen was spoken of as better than Schumacher - and much younger than 36 year old Hill.They are only showing signs of recover now, almost 20 years later.
I think money was an influencing factor as well - I remember a story from the time about how Hill was being paid less than Berger even though Hill had won more races and was on the way to winning the championship. Williams famously saw drivers as simply the nut that holds the wheel and if you have the best car then any nut should be glad to do the job for minimal remuneration.
What really lead to Williams' downfall was the withdrawal of Renault and the loss of Newey at around the same time. They came back to being big hitters with BMW and were in the running for the Championship in 2003 - then they lost BMW and 10 years on......
Mr_Thyroid said:
You seem to give a hell of a lot of credit to Hill. I like him and I reckon many people underrate him but it seems unlikely that his much reputed testing skill was such a telling loss. His performance in '95 seems to have been the nail in his career at Williams. It's thought their car was the best in that year, particularly the first half, but Hill failed to deliver - although the car let in down when he was in the lead in the first race in Brazil. Frentzen was spoken of as better than Schumacher - and much younger than 36 year old Hill.
I think money was an influencing factor as well - I remember a story from the time about how Hill was being paid less than Berger even though Hill had won more races and was on the way to winning the championship. Williams famously saw drivers as simply the nut that holds the wheel and if you have the best car then any nut should be glad to do the job for minimal remuneration.
What really lead to Williams' downfall was the withdrawal of Renault and the loss of Newey at around the same time. They came back to being big hitters with BMW and were in the running for the Championship in 2003 - then they lost BMW and 10 years on......
When it came to renegotiating contracts Williams had a habit of blaming drivers' egos. It may have worked with Mansell but not Hill.I think money was an influencing factor as well - I remember a story from the time about how Hill was being paid less than Berger even though Hill had won more races and was on the way to winning the championship. Williams famously saw drivers as simply the nut that holds the wheel and if you have the best car then any nut should be glad to do the job for minimal remuneration.
What really lead to Williams' downfall was the withdrawal of Renault and the loss of Newey at around the same time. They came back to being big hitters with BMW and were in the running for the Championship in 2003 - then they lost BMW and 10 years on......
I'd say that Newey was more of a loss than Renault; Mechachrome built the Renault engines but then without factory support. Newey wanted to have have a share in Williams and a greater role, not happy with Hill leaving which combined in him defecting to McLaren. I think Newey wouldn't have minded those barren years if he as able to stay longer, in JV's hands they probably might have a capable of a win and Williams are regarded as terrific wheeler dealers and they ended up with BMW anyway.
entropy said:
When it came to renegotiating contracts Williams had a habit of blaming drivers' egos. It may have worked with Mansell but not Hill.
I'd say that Newey was more of a loss than Renault; Mechachrome built the Renault engines but then without factory support. Newey wanted to have have a share in Williams and a greater role, not happy with Hill leaving which combined in him defecting to McLaren. I think Newey wouldn't have minded those barren years if he as able to stay longer, in JV's hands they probably might have a capable of a win and Williams are regarded as terrific wheeler dealers and they ended up with BMW anyway.
I was told by someone who was normally spot on that the stumbling block was Head with regards, Hill. The two never really got on. He favoured Villeneuve I'd say that Newey was more of a loss than Renault; Mechachrome built the Renault engines but then without factory support. Newey wanted to have have a share in Williams and a greater role, not happy with Hill leaving which combined in him defecting to McLaren. I think Newey wouldn't have minded those barren years if he as able to stay longer, in JV's hands they probably might have a capable of a win and Williams are regarded as terrific wheeler dealers and they ended up with BMW anyway.
Hill leaving was down to his poor 95(? Pre-championship year) season and introspective attitude not inspiring confidence on Willaims side, coupled with the fact that he was getting older, was world champion and wanted a salary to match. As a kid I saw it as a stab in the back, but it seems a bit strange even now. It wasn't like he wasn't quick all of a sudden.
Damon Hill was team mate to Alain Prost prior to teaming up with Ayrton Senna, Prost was rather quick too, so Williams hardly had a poor benchmark to use pre Senna joining.
Damon had a poor 95 season with too many mistakes when trying to compete with Schumacher, which is a shame as what he did in 94 to get Williams through the loss of Senna was first rate, they didn't repay the effort when they decided to dump him IMHO, but that's typical F1. At the time I don't think it was fully appreciated quite how special Schumacher (and his engineering team) were either, no one else was putting up a proper fight to Michael.
Damon had a poor 95 season with too many mistakes when trying to compete with Schumacher, which is a shame as what he did in 94 to get Williams through the loss of Senna was first rate, they didn't repay the effort when they decided to dump him IMHO, but that's typical F1. At the time I don't think it was fully appreciated quite how special Schumacher (and his engineering team) were either, no one else was putting up a proper fight to Michael.
jsf said:
At the time I don't think it was fully appreciated quite how special Schumacher (and his engineering team) were either, no one else was putting up a proper fight to Michael.
Even as an 11 year old kid getting properly into F1 in '92 I couldn't help noticing what special talent he was. Williams had the best car but if you could hassle them often as Senna could then that was a good barometer.94 - sadly never had the changing of guard, and TC controversy but I think 95 showed how special Schumi was. Frentzen was highly rated at the time - he was considered better than Schumi coming up in Germany.
Eric Mc said:
James also provided the voice over for at least one of the official FOCA season review videos of the early 1980s. It is highly entertaining but would probably be looked on as a bit cynical by today's standards.
1982. His constant piss taking of the Renault's inability to finish is very amusing. One of the best reviews out there!Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff