Silverstone Boss Quits.
Discussion
It does seem such a strange business model that the rights holders of the sport seem hell bent on ensuring that most of the participators in the sport (teams, circuits, TV companies) virtually bankrupt themselves for the privilege of being involved.
Nobody seems to be benefiting from F1 now apart from the shareholders and bondholders of CVC, Bernie and perhaps two or three teams.
The rest are struggling to hold on. It seems a completely suicidal way to behave.
Nobody seems to be benefiting from F1 now apart from the shareholders and bondholders of CVC, Bernie and perhaps two or three teams.
The rest are struggling to hold on. It seems a completely suicidal way to behave.
It's a highly unusual business model and market.
Ever wonder why the prospects for a floatation never quite gets off the ground? When one looks st the risk / material risks / uncertainties, and the right level of due diligence is done, there's far too much down-side risk (read: potential financial losses which cannot be adequately mitigated).
It's a shame that a select few are wrecking a sport which most PH'ers love.
Ever wonder why the prospects for a floatation never quite gets off the ground? When one looks st the risk / material risks / uncertainties, and the right level of due diligence is done, there's far too much down-side risk (read: potential financial losses which cannot be adequately mitigated).
It's a shame that a select few are wrecking a sport which most PH'ers love.
That is indeed the problem.
There is no long term planning, no investment in bringing more teams forward, no support for those struggling to keep their heads above water.
The CVC float is critical yet every time it's put forward reality rears its head and it is shown to be shaky.
Ecclestone talking about three-car teams is fiddling. F1 is at risk of burning yet no one seems to care. Viewing figures are mentioned as justification for the current methods, it being seen as the only measure of success. No French GP. How long for the British if it is loosing 1m per race? How long for other continental races?
Mosley did his best, it would appear, to ruin motor sport in general, limiting feeder series and such, concentrating on F1 only. Can't think why he did so of course.
Motor sport is under threat in this country and you would think that those with an interest in its future should be out there pushing other sports as well.
I would have said that sports car racing could not compete but here I am watching Le Tour. So the time of the racing might not be a problem. If the format was changed slightly then it might compete on TV time. If it did then I can't help thinking that the manufacturers would move over.
I've thought that a 90 min race on Sat and a 3 hour race on Sunday, with 12 races a year would be taken up by one of the free to air channels. With F1 likely to be all ppv in the next few years . . .
The Mosley/Ecclestone, or rather Ecclestone/little Bern years were a disaster for the sport. It has now become unsaleable it would appear. I'd rather be stuck with Harris paintings.
There is no long term planning, no investment in bringing more teams forward, no support for those struggling to keep their heads above water.
The CVC float is critical yet every time it's put forward reality rears its head and it is shown to be shaky.
Ecclestone talking about three-car teams is fiddling. F1 is at risk of burning yet no one seems to care. Viewing figures are mentioned as justification for the current methods, it being seen as the only measure of success. No French GP. How long for the British if it is loosing 1m per race? How long for other continental races?
Mosley did his best, it would appear, to ruin motor sport in general, limiting feeder series and such, concentrating on F1 only. Can't think why he did so of course.
Motor sport is under threat in this country and you would think that those with an interest in its future should be out there pushing other sports as well.
I would have said that sports car racing could not compete but here I am watching Le Tour. So the time of the racing might not be a problem. If the format was changed slightly then it might compete on TV time. If it did then I can't help thinking that the manufacturers would move over.
I've thought that a 90 min race on Sat and a 3 hour race on Sunday, with 12 races a year would be taken up by one of the free to air channels. With F1 likely to be all ppv in the next few years . . .
The Mosley/Ecclestone, or rather Ecclestone/little Bern years were a disaster for the sport. It has now become unsaleable it would appear. I'd rather be stuck with Harris paintings.
Harris paintings would probably be worth a lot more.
Another thing that I didn't see commented on here on the forums is that bl
y Bernie (over the weekend) started saying he may be interested in buying back F1, all this fiddling is probably his way of driving the price even lower then getting it and then fiddling with again, saying one thing to one team, then something different to another, making policy on the run, increase the value short-term, and then sell it again.
Pump n Dump stuff.
Another thing that I didn't see commented on here on the forums is that bl
y Bernie (over the weekend) started saying he may be interested in buying back F1, all this fiddling is probably his way of driving the price even lower then getting it and then fiddling with again, saying one thing to one team, then something different to another, making policy on the run, increase the value short-term, and then sell it again.Pump n Dump stuff.
Likes Fast Cars said:
Harris paintings would probably be worth a lot more.
Another thing that I didn't see commented on here on the forums is that bly Bernie (over the weekend) started saying he may be interested in buying back F1, all this fiddling is probably his way of driving the price even lower then getting it and then fiddling with again, saying one thing to one team, then something different to another, making policy on the run, increase the value short-term, and then sell it again.
Pump n Dump stuff.
I don't suppose we can blame Ecclestone. He's never made a secret of the fact that he's following the money.Another thing that I didn't see commented on here on the forums is that bl
y Bernie (over the weekend) started saying he may be interested in buying back F1, all this fiddling is probably his way of driving the price even lower then getting it and then fiddling with again, saying one thing to one team, then something different to another, making policy on the run, increase the value short-term, and then sell it again.Pump n Dump stuff.
I can't help thinking that part of the problem is his relationship with Todt, or perhaps the lack of it. Ecclestone was buddies with Balestre, advising him and then jumping ship when, or I reckon before, Mosley got in the frame. The sale of the rights (although I never really understood why the FIA had the ability to sell them) to Ecclestone was the start of F1 becoming a milk cow.
With Todt voted in we got CVC wanting to dump the rights for the right price. But then the series of scandals, the problems with the teams, the problems with the circuits now perhaps, have meant that it keeps getting put off.
I wonder if Todt is the catalyst for the sale. As the FIA now gets virtually nothing from F1, there's no Damoclesian reason for Todt to play ball. Or perhaps no reason for him not to play hard ball. The massive cut to income is no doubt a problem for the FIA, one they might like to have relieved.
We, obviously, know nothing about the goings on that are going on at the moment. It is possible that the trial is the thing. If he comes away without too much dirt attached and there is nothing else waiting in the wings, then maybe the sale would go ahead, although the comments from various judges may have tarnished his reputation. Further, any prospective purchaser might wonder if the European courts, which has made threats in the past, certainly enough to change things, might be concerned about some of the revelations.
Or it might all blow over and the sale go ahead.
The suggestion from Ecclestone sounds to me like a chap trying to sell a second hand car suggesting that he doesn't really want to sell it as it is a classic, going up in price as the years go by. Honest guv.
Derek Smith said:
I don't suppose we can blame Ecclestone. He's never made a secret of the fact that he's following the money.
I can't help thinking that part of the problem is his relationship with Todt, or perhaps the lack of it. Ecclestone was buddies with Balestre, advising him and then jumping ship when, or I reckon before, Mosley got in the frame. The sale of the rights (although I never really understood why the FIA had the ability to sell them) to Ecclestone was the start of F1 becoming a milk cow.
With Todt voted in we got CVC wanting to dump the rights for the right price. But then the series of scandals, the problems with the teams, the problems with the circuits now perhaps, have meant that it keeps getting put off.
I wonder if Todt is the catalyst for the sale. As the FIA now gets virtually nothing from F1, there's no Damoclesian reason for Todt to play ball. Or perhaps no reason for him not to play hard ball. The massive cut to income is no doubt a problem for the FIA, one they might like to have relieved.
We, obviously, know nothing about the goings on that are going on at the moment. It is possible that the trial is the thing. If he comes away without too much dirt attached and there is nothing else waiting in the wings, then maybe the sale would go ahead, although the comments from various judges may have tarnished his reputation. Further, any prospective purchaser might wonder if the European courts, which has made threats in the past, certainly enough to change things, might be concerned about some of the revelations.
Or it might all blow over and the sale go ahead.
The suggestion from Ecclestone sounds to me like a chap trying to sell a second hand car suggesting that he doesn't really want to sell it as it is a classic, going up in price as the years go by. Honest guv.
The last bit is probably spot on Derek. I can't help thinking that part of the problem is his relationship with Todt, or perhaps the lack of it. Ecclestone was buddies with Balestre, advising him and then jumping ship when, or I reckon before, Mosley got in the frame. The sale of the rights (although I never really understood why the FIA had the ability to sell them) to Ecclestone was the start of F1 becoming a milk cow.
With Todt voted in we got CVC wanting to dump the rights for the right price. But then the series of scandals, the problems with the teams, the problems with the circuits now perhaps, have meant that it keeps getting put off.
I wonder if Todt is the catalyst for the sale. As the FIA now gets virtually nothing from F1, there's no Damoclesian reason for Todt to play ball. Or perhaps no reason for him not to play hard ball. The massive cut to income is no doubt a problem for the FIA, one they might like to have relieved.
We, obviously, know nothing about the goings on that are going on at the moment. It is possible that the trial is the thing. If he comes away without too much dirt attached and there is nothing else waiting in the wings, then maybe the sale would go ahead, although the comments from various judges may have tarnished his reputation. Further, any prospective purchaser might wonder if the European courts, which has made threats in the past, certainly enough to change things, might be concerned about some of the revelations.
Or it might all blow over and the sale go ahead.
The suggestion from Ecclestone sounds to me like a chap trying to sell a second hand car suggesting that he doesn't really want to sell it as it is a classic, going up in price as the years go by. Honest guv.
I always thought Bernie was close to Todt and Max??
Likes Fast Cars said:
The last bit is probably spot on Derek.
I always thought Bernie was close to Todt and Max??
I thought so too but I've not seen anything to support that since the appointment, and certainly not since the trials. There have been one or two almost critical comments from the FIA.I always thought Bernie was close to Todt and Max??
Further, Todt has been supporting other formulae, such as rally and sports cars. In the Mosely days, I went to a 6-hour sports car race at Sliverstone where advertising had been, shall we say, restricted and despite torrential rain, the stands were not opened. The thoughts of a team manager I interviewed were 'startling' but I had to promise not to repeat them.
Without any information to support my belief, I bet when Ecclestone goes other formulae, apart from those in the clutches of F1, become more popular.
Derek Smith said:
I thought so too but I've not seen anything to support that since the appointment, and certainly not since the trials. There have been one or two almost critical comments from the FIA.
Further, Todt has been supporting other formulae, such as rally and sports cars. In the Mosely days, I went to a 6-hour sports car race at Sliverstone where advertising had been, shall we say, restricted and despite torrential rain, the stands were not opened. The thoughts of a team manager I interviewed were 'startling' but I had to promise not to repeat them.
Without any information to support my belief, I bet when Ecclestone goes other formulae, apart from those in the clutches of F1, become more popular.
Really, if motor sport wasn't such an addictive pursuit / spectator sport it wouldn't exist with attitudes like those shown by the "upper echelons" and administration.Further, Todt has been supporting other formulae, such as rally and sports cars. In the Mosely days, I went to a 6-hour sports car race at Sliverstone where advertising had been, shall we say, restricted and despite torrential rain, the stands were not opened. The thoughts of a team manager I interviewed were 'startling' but I had to promise not to repeat them.
Without any information to support my belief, I bet when Ecclestone goes other formulae, apart from those in the clutches of F1, become more popular.
Eric Mc said:
It does seem such a strange business model that the rights holders of the sport seem hell bent on ensuring that most of the participators in the sport (teams, circuits, TV companies) virtually bankrupt themselves for the privilege of being involved.
Nobody seems to be benefiting from F1 now apart from the shareholders and bondholders of CVC, Bernie and perhaps two or three teams.
The rest are struggling to hold on. It seems a completely suicidal way to behave.
I have to wonder if things will change when BE pegs it. Will it be the same politics with a different dictator or will genuinely constructive change suddenly be able to happen?Nobody seems to be benefiting from F1 now apart from the shareholders and bondholders of CVC, Bernie and perhaps two or three teams.
The rest are struggling to hold on. It seems a completely suicidal way to behave.
Likes Fast Cars said:
Really, if motor sport wasn't such an addictive pursuit / spectator sport it wouldn't exist with attitudes like those shown by the "upper echelons" and administration.
I think that Ecclestone needs to remember that it is motor sport that is addictive and not just F1. I enjoy watching anything. Some of the forumlae allow you to walk around the pits, most allow you in the paddock. You can chat to drivers, mechanics and managers. I've been an F1 nerd since the 1960s but I go to other races and enjoy them. I remember sports car racing in the 80s, going to Silverstone, Brands, Donington and other tracks and enjoying it. Indeed the first 90 minutes of the Donington event was about the best racing I'd ever seen. Mind you, the Jags were out after that and it was a Merc benefit, but I still stayed for the remaining 4.5 hours and was invited into the Merc hospitality area after the race and fed and watered - no alcohol. I got so close to the racing that a piece of a tyre hit me on the forehead. It wasn't as good as F1 was in those days, but it was still riveting.
I'm off to the classic later on this month at Silverstone. A few years ago I stayed until the death and helped push one of the cars. Not much of a story, I know, and not one I can dine out on, but hardly F1 levels of separation.
Derek Smith said:
I think that Ecclestone needs to remember that it is motor sport that is addictive and not just F1.
In 2014, for the current majority of the audience, i'm not sure F1 is actually "addictive"??It's not exciting and unpredictable enough for that these days, with so many other things vying for peoples attention and money imo.
(lets face it, Motorsport was born out the risk/danger of ww2, with people replacing the "danger" of war with that of racing around in fast and dangerous cars instead. It was a lot cheaper then than now too, so people could follow it (and even take part!) without spending a lot of money. Now, whilst we have more expendable income, there are also so many more competing demands on that money.)
As the true danger and excitment gradually fell through the 1970s and 80s, the sport became simply a global vehicle for the tobacco industry, and now that smoking is socially unacceptable, i think motorsport is still trying to find it's way in the modern world, where increasingly, just driving round for fun in circles is no long that inspiring to the majority?)
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 9th July 23:27
Max, I think you have some good points there. Although, motorsport of course started well before WW2, in fact it probably started with horses.
The risk/danger element was a massive part of the draw to motor racing in a time when 100mph was akin to space travel to most people. This has morphed into a more controlled skill within very safe environments.
Speed, beautiful cars, daring drivers, aggressive competition and the risk of death is a powerful combination to many still.
We live in a different and much safer world now with much regulation. Motorsport, like alcohol would probably not be allowed if invented now.
For me, F1 is on a knife edge right now. Its struggling to find its identity. Its trying to be too many things.
Perhaps Ecclestone needs to go and let the next generation take over.
The risk/danger element was a massive part of the draw to motor racing in a time when 100mph was akin to space travel to most people. This has morphed into a more controlled skill within very safe environments.
Speed, beautiful cars, daring drivers, aggressive competition and the risk of death is a powerful combination to many still.
We live in a different and much safer world now with much regulation. Motorsport, like alcohol would probably not be allowed if invented now.
For me, F1 is on a knife edge right now. Its struggling to find its identity. Its trying to be too many things.
Perhaps Ecclestone needs to go and let the next generation take over.
Max_Torque said:
...lets face it, Motorsport was born out the risk/danger of ww2, with people replacing the "danger" of war with that of racing around in fast and dangerous cars instead.
Modern Formula One but certainly not motor sport and not Grand Prix racing. 
Here's some brave chaps battling the threat of risk and danger in 1903
Motorsport is the last bastion of political incorrectness.
It's fossil-fuel burning noise pollution for the sheer sake of it. Along with the fawning pit-lane girlies and conspicuous consumption, it's all from an era of complete unacceptableness for the control-freakery of the closet communists and feminists that run the world these days.
Such inappropriate activity must be expunged from the face of the earth!*
` *except where it adversely effects GDP and tax revenues...
It's fossil-fuel burning noise pollution for the sheer sake of it. Along with the fawning pit-lane girlies and conspicuous consumption, it's all from an era of complete unacceptableness for the control-freakery of the closet communists and feminists that run the world these days.
Such inappropriate activity must be expunged from the face of the earth!*
` *except where it adversely effects GDP and tax revenues...
Derek Smith said:
I'm off to the classic later on this month at Silverstone. A few years ago I stayed until the death and helped push one of the cars. Not much of a story, I know, and not one I can dine out on, but hardly F1 levels of separation.
This is great stuff, to get close to "the action". I'm not saying we should be allowed to help push one of the cars in F1 but you;re right about the level of separation, in F1 we as fans are kept too far away from it. 
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