13 inch wheels?

[Xtriple129]

Probably a stupid question but one that has been bugging me for years: why do formula one cars run such small wheels? I believe they are still 13inch. This seems ridiculous to me as every road car has bigger wheels and this small size means the brakes are compromised on size and the tyres have huge sidewalls. Surely it would be more 'modern' if the cars were allowed to run a more modern, normal size wheel and low profile tyres. Then they could have decent size discs/calipers.

I admit I have no idea what the brake set up on these cars are (I'd love to know) but bigger wheels would give a load of tyre/brake advantages.

So why?

[zac510]

I understand it's just regulation and history, but originally the regulation was probably to limit braking performance. These days they're not so limited with braking performance as technology has caught up.

It's similar to why are the wheels measured in inches when every other measurement on the car is in the metric system; sometimes you just get stuck in the past! However it's not necessarily wrong, it's just a different way to do and achieve the same thing.

[Corpulent Tosser]

The current regulations are for 13" wheels which is why they are used, a change of wheel size (which may well happen) would mean a major revision of the suspension to cope with it.

In the case of road cars, it is true many of them run much bigger wheels with very low profile tyres, the reason in many cases is fashion rather than to improve the car.

[sonnylad]

Tyre wall is working along side suspension travel set up on the car

[RemarkLima]

And as Zac said, they run full carbon ceramic discs (I think) and hence can get maximum braking performance out of small discs.

The only reason road cars have big wheels and low profile tyres was to copy race cars on cast iron discs, which needed to be larger to get the braking force and dissipate heat... And now you get 19" wheels with tiny, tiny discs behind them *rolls eyes*

Road cars would be better to follow F1, and get some decent ride quality back.

[rich83]

Much better to run a smaller wheel as possible from my experience. Better ride/handling/grip given the 'right' tyre.

[zac510]

I think if asked the engineers might prefer larger wheels as then there is less un-dampened springing effect in the rubber of the tyre. Instead of the tyre you can control the spring in the suspension itself.

It'd also completely change all of their models and decades of suspension/tyre knowledge that is based on that rim and tyre sidewall size. Might be a good regulation to change one year when they want to mix up the team order a bit

[celicawrc]

Another factor is having a larger advertising area for the tyre manufacturers logo.

[rich83]

zac510 said:

I think if asked the engineers might prefer larger wheels as then there is less un-dampened springing effect in the rubber of the tyre. Instead of the tyre you can control the spring in the suspension itself.

It'd also completely change all of their models and decades of suspension/tyre knowledge that is based on that rim and tyre sidewall size. Might be a good regulation to change one year when they want to mix up the team order a bit

Best to have the rubber absorb some of the roads undulations rather than relying on the suspension.

[zac510]

rich83 said:

Best to have the rubber absorb some of the roads undulations rather than relying on the suspension.

Why? You can't control the damping of rubber and air and especially one that is made by a 3rd party and controlled by the FIA. but you can control the damping of a suspension spring or modify the damper characteristics.

[rich83]

zac510 said:

rich83 said:

Best to have the rubber absorb some of the roads undulations rather than relying on the suspension.

Why? You can't control the damping of rubber and air and especially one that is made by a 3rd party and controlled by the FIA. but you can control the damping of a suspension spring or modify the damper characteristics.

Well... if thats the case they should run on "elastic band" tyres. There is some compliance that tyres give that you cannot get from suspension.

[zac510]

rich83 said:

Well... if thats the case they should run on "elastic band" tyres. There is some compliance that tyres give that you cannot get from suspension.

I did not say they should use 'elastic band' tyres, it's really crappy argument technique to extend my argument to a ridiculous extreme in order to try to negate it.
I just said that they might want to use larger rims to have more control over the damping.

[rich83]

But that would result in less grip. My limited knowledge of F1 suspension setup tells me that the whole arm moves very very little, so they use the tyres to their advantage as part of the suspension setup. Even if they could use bigger wheels and lower profile tyres, I bet none of them would


(p.s. yes I realise I exaggerated your post :-) )

[zac510]

Maybe someone can put the question to a real suspension engineer!

[FourWheelDrift]

Michelin have stated if they return to F1 they want to return with 18" wheels. Bernie he say no.

[thegreenhell]

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[mistakenplane]

I read in F1 Racing it wouldnt be the worst thing in the world to return to active suspension, as it would actually save costs now, and technology has caught up to it.

[RichB]

zac510 said:

... it's really crappy argument technique to extend my argument to a ridiculous extreme in order to try to negate it..

Only on Pistonheads would you get an argument about an argument.

[Vaud]

mistakenplane said:

I read in F1 Racing it wouldnt be the worst thing in the world to return to active suspension, as it would actually save costs now, and technology has caught up to it.

But it would ramp up cornering speeds, and therefore crash energies, as I understand it. Given lap times are pretty good (Austria was close to the 2003 time?) that might not be a good thing.

[shalon]

think its to limit brake size and the tyre companies want it for as much advertising coverage but michelin do want low profie tyres if they return