Hamilton must start making more of own calls
Discussion
The one thing that stops Lewis from being one of the true greats is his total reliance on the pit wall regarding decisions on when to come in.
Senna , Prost and Schuey would know when to come in or roll the dice,And with the years he spent with JB surely Lewis would have picked up on the guys uncanny ablility regarding tyre calls.
On Sunday why did he not stay out after Nico pitted the second time,He said he had been held up and with the lack of ERS and overheating rears why did he follow Nico in the next lap?
Think he had 40 odd seconds on the third car and he was on the hard tyre which would have gone to the end of the race easily bearing in mind the reduced pace he was running.
Time and again he keeps questioning why they brought him in so early as the tyres were fine or the late safety car call at Monte.
Or is in these latest generating cars that the engineers are just taking over.
Senna , Prost and Schuey would know when to come in or roll the dice,And with the years he spent with JB surely Lewis would have picked up on the guys uncanny ablility regarding tyre calls.
On Sunday why did he not stay out after Nico pitted the second time,He said he had been held up and with the lack of ERS and overheating rears why did he follow Nico in the next lap?
Think he had 40 odd seconds on the third car and he was on the hard tyre which would have gone to the end of the race easily bearing in mind the reduced pace he was running.
Time and again he keeps questioning why they brought him in so early as the tyres were fine or the late safety car call at Monte.
Or is in these latest generating cars that the engineers are just taking over.
So when the team are working out the best strategy to avoid feeding him into traffic etc he should ignore them and do his own thing, the whole point of the team is to work together and use the expertise available, the driver is exactly that, a driver, he must do as instructed by the team, who can see the whole picture.
The only exception to this is when for some reason the telemetry is obviously wrong.
The only exception to this is when for some reason the telemetry is obviously wrong.
Your comments are made off snippits of published radio chatter, not listening to a whole race of conversations.
The team run the show, and thats how it is. He doesnt get to pick and choose what he does, his strategy is based on a plan with his race feedback being noted and considered.
The team run the show, and thats how it is. He doesnt get to pick and choose what he does, his strategy is based on a plan with his race feedback being noted and considered.
johnfm said:
If you recall, during the race Ricciardo's team message was 'tell us where you want to overtake and we'll figure out the best way to generate energy'..
It seems it is definitely becoming an engineer v engineer contest as tech gets more comlex.
Simiarly the engineer didn't know where would be the best place to overtake and trusted his driver's intuition to know and give him the information.It seems it is definitely becoming an engineer v engineer contest as tech gets more comlex.
mistakenplane said:
Your comments are made off snippits of published radio chatter, not listening to a whole race of conversations.
The team run the show, and thats how it is. He doesnt get to pick and choose what he does, his strategy is based on a plan with his race feedback being noted and considered.
I agree to the above but want to add a couple more points:The team run the show, and thats how it is. He doesnt get to pick and choose what he does, his strategy is based on a plan with his race feedback being noted and considered.
Pit stop calls are made with other information to hand, the simplest being track re-entry in relation to traffic and tyre/fuel load calculations.
It also may not be in LH's psyche - take any top flight sportsman and you'll see how various people deal with situations. Some want to know every minute detail and make their own call. Others want to know nothing and wing it. Most are a mixture and therefore use their concentration on what they think is important, happy to let others make the call. What type is lewis? No idea to be honest.
Lastly, while Jenson Button has had some good results with his pits top and tyre calls, he's also made a few blunders, so bear that in mind.
IMO, and it's been said on here before by others, is that lewis is fragile psychologically. From what I've gleaned from random driver communication messages and from pre and post race interviews, it's his mental side that is the weakest. If there is ever a situation where things don't go his way, if he has a string of misfortune (mechanical DNF's for example) or unexplained out performances by a team mate I really worry that he mentally can't cope. Combine this with his on-off relationship with his girlfriend (which would must be tough for anyone) makes me think it's his brain rather than his talent that will let him down.
I also believe that his move to mercedes last year, knowing full well that the season will be a lost cause with no chance of competing for the WDC (remember "now I've been overtaken by a Williams!") was the best thing he could have done. He needed to learn that sometimes there is no chance of you being competitive and you just have to make do, even if that meant best finish was near the top ten.
I'm looking forward to Austria. Canada was considered by many to be "his" track and I'll be interested to see how he'll respond to being out qualified and unable to overtake Rosberg before his mechanical DNF (which he could do nothing about)
Hang on! OP has short memory.
At Monaco Lewis pointed out that McLaren had a strategist for each driver, but Mercedes have just one, who is working for the team. He can't come in until authorised and only the first driver has call. QED guy in front will inevitably try to work against you and was why Lewis was so pissed at not being on pole.
Lewis's biggest worry is the possibility that the Mercedes strategy may have a preference for a German WDC as well as Mercedes WCC. Very understandable for marketing reasons.
The pit should have been aware of the failing rear brakes on Lewis's car; they certainly knew he was more rear biased than Nico, and had stated before the race that brakes were marginal, but we did not hear the team radio give any forewarning.
At Monaco Lewis pointed out that McLaren had a strategist for each driver, but Mercedes have just one, who is working for the team. He can't come in until authorised and only the first driver has call. QED guy in front will inevitably try to work against you and was why Lewis was so pissed at not being on pole.
Lewis's biggest worry is the possibility that the Mercedes strategy may have a preference for a German WDC as well as Mercedes WCC. Very understandable for marketing reasons.
The pit should have been aware of the failing rear brakes on Lewis's car; they certainly knew he was more rear biased than Nico, and had stated before the race that brakes were marginal, but we did not hear the team radio give any forewarning.
rdjohn said:
Hang on! OP has short memory.
At Monaco Lewis pointed out that McLaren had a strategist for each driver, but Mercedes have just one, who is working for the team. He can't come in until authorised and only the first driver has call. QED guy in front will inevitably try to work against you and was why Lewis was so pissed at not being on pole.
Lewis's biggest worry is the possibility that the Mercedes strategy may have a preference for a German WDC as well as Mercedes WCC. Very understandable for marketing reasons.
The pit should have been aware of the failing rear brakes on Lewis's car; they certainly knew he was more rear biased than Nico, and had stated before the race that brakes were marginal, but we did not hear the team radio give any forewarning.
I hadn't thought of that, and reminds me of Alonso having an FIA Steward in the McLaren garage towards the end of the 2007 season. At Monaco Lewis pointed out that McLaren had a strategist for each driver, but Mercedes have just one, who is working for the team. He can't come in until authorised and only the first driver has call. QED guy in front will inevitably try to work against you and was why Lewis was so pissed at not being on pole.
Lewis's biggest worry is the possibility that the Mercedes strategy may have a preference for a German WDC as well as Mercedes WCC. Very understandable for marketing reasons.
The pit should have been aware of the failing rear brakes on Lewis's car; they certainly knew he was more rear biased than Nico, and had stated before the race that brakes were marginal, but we did not hear the team radio give any forewarning.
Head games versus paranoia?
But then again where to place Lewis's 2012 Spa Tweeting of telemetry after qualifying when we've never seen his telemetry for that first corner pile up.
Nico did call in asking what brake bias Hamilton was running before the faults that befell both Mercs. came to light.
rdjohn said:
Lewis's biggest worry is the possibility that the Mercedes strategy may have a preference for a German WDC as well as Mercedes WCC. Very understandable for marketing reasons.
Arguably LH has more appeal worldwide, from a marketing perspective, than Nico, I would have thought.Driver and team will make a strategy decision before the race, using all available data. They often make more than one plan "in case".
The plan(s) picked are the optimum strategy, based on their combined knowledge and reams of data.
Frankly, unless there is an unprecedented situation (eg. a puncture, it starts raining, a spin etc) there driver is a bit daft to start calling the shots from the driving seat mid race The team have far more information available on the driver's pace and more importantly everyone elses as well.
In short - stick the plan and trust your race engineer, he knows better than you.
I don't think this weekend was an unprecedented situation - yes the car had a power issue, but so did Nico, at that time they were looking to see if they could fix the problem. In other words it was still all to play for.
The plan(s) picked are the optimum strategy, based on their combined knowledge and reams of data.
Frankly, unless there is an unprecedented situation (eg. a puncture, it starts raining, a spin etc) there driver is a bit daft to start calling the shots from the driving seat mid race The team have far more information available on the driver's pace and more importantly everyone elses as well.
In short - stick the plan and trust your race engineer, he knows better than you.
I don't think this weekend was an unprecedented situation - yes the car had a power issue, but so did Nico, at that time they were looking to see if they could fix the problem. In other words it was still all to play for.
said:
But then again where to place Lewis's 2012 Spa Tweeting of telemetry after qualifying when we've never seen his telemetry for that first corner pile up.
Nico did call in asking what brake bias Hamilton was running before the faults that befell both Mercs. came to light.
Both of these events have similar origins. If you recall at Spa 2012 Lewis was in the middle of contract negotiations. My guess is that at the briefing, engineers had suggesting that JB going with one set up and LH with another would have similar results over race distance. The big difference was on the qually lap it put JB on pole and LH so far back, he was effectively out of the race at the start - hence the WTF tweet.Nico did call in asking what brake bias Hamilton was running before the faults that befell both Mercs. came to light.
At Monaco LH was again questioning the strategy of the engineers, he feels the strategy is likely to be less advantageous. The race before, he questioned why had they put 3 turns on the front wing when my guess is that was not what had been discussed beforehand in team briefings.
It may seem like paranoia but if you believe that you are racing your team as well as your teammate, that is inevitably what will happen for most human beings.
In the interview after the race Toto Wolfe seemed far more concerned about getting Nico some points rather than Lewis's DNF. Lewis looked like he was all over Nico like a bad rash yesterday. Nico gained a huge advantage in laptime at the chicane incident but again, the stewards saw it differently.
If I was Lewis, I would be paranoid.
There are a lot of not very nice people working in formula 1, its not a wide cross section of individuals. I can think of better places to spend time, especially if certain groups freeze you out. Schumacher took his whole team to ferrari, it was basically like walking into his lounge.
C Lee Farquar said:
rdjohn said:
Lewis's biggest worry is the possibility that the Mercedes strategy may have a preference for a German WDC as well as Mercedes WCC. Very understandable for marketing reasons.
Arguably LH has more appeal worldwide, from a marketing perspective, than Nico, I would have thought.Jasandjules said:
Hang on OP are you suggesting Lewis should just pull into the Pit Lane and demand his team come and give him tyres etc? DO you not think this might just cost rather a lot of time?
No one is suggesting he pulls in unanounced But what was the problem with him staying out?, He had a 25 second lead over Nico and 40 second lead over third, Jenson and Alonso would have asked to stay out to see how things went.Please do not tell me the team get it right all the time , What about mclarens much vaunted multi million pound mission control ,They made some corking! calls the last season Lewis was with them! And Ferrari loosing the championship for Alonso At the last race at Abu Dab.
I have had alot of people say to me this season who is driving the car, The driver or the engineers back in the pits!
I know these a just normal people watchers but after 50 years of enjoying the racing even i wonder where it will end?
Daniel1 said:
I also believe that his move to mercedes last year, knowing full well that the season will be a lost cause with no chance of competing for the WDC (remember "now I've been overtaken by a Williams!") was the best thing he could have done. He needed to learn that sometimes there is no chance of you being competitive and you just have to make do, even if that meant best finish was near the top ten.
Are you suggesting that his last season with McLaren wasn't enough?The idea that drivers dictate is very old fashioned. There's so much else going on with regards the cars, so much else going on with other cars that the last person to be able to pick the best time to come in is the driver.
The engineers know tyre temperature, tyre wear, how other drivers are doing, how fast another car is going, where the traffic is, what fuel consumption rates are, and more and more and more. The idea that other drivers somehow intuitively know when the best time to come in is is unsupportable.
Drivers must depend on their engineers.
Derek Smith said:
Are you suggesting that his last season with McLaren wasn't enough?
The idea that drivers dictate is very old fashioned. There's so much else going on with regards the cars, so much else going on with other cars that the last person to be able to pick the best time to come in is the driver.
The engineers know tyre temperature, tyre wear, how other drivers are doing, how fast another car is going, where the traffic is, what fuel consumption rates are, and more and more and more. The idea that other drivers somehow intuitively know when the best time to come in is is unsupportable.
Drivers must depend on their engineers.
Agreed to an extent.The idea that drivers dictate is very old fashioned. There's so much else going on with regards the cars, so much else going on with other cars that the last person to be able to pick the best time to come in is the driver.
The engineers know tyre temperature, tyre wear, how other drivers are doing, how fast another car is going, where the traffic is, what fuel consumption rates are, and more and more and more. The idea that other drivers somehow intuitively know when the best time to come in is is unsupportable.
Drivers must depend on their engineers.
Of course engineers have a lot of data and Vettel likes pestering his team with pit strategy.
How about 2008 Japanese GP? Alonso altered pit strategy mid-race because he knew he could beat Kubica because the Pole would go through a bad graining phase whereas this factor was never picked up by the Ferrari engineers.
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