F1's next clanger - "Regeneration" laps

[corozin]

I'm sure someone once said the Formula One is supposed to be the pinnacle of World Motorsport.

So what is all this stuff today in Qualifying about "regeneration laps"? So F1 cars now can't do more than one qualifying lap without having to do a bloody slow lap to recharge the sodding batteries??

Is this what Bernie's clown formula of motorsport has become? Jeeeez...

[Crafty_]

They are perfectly capable of doing more than 1 qualifying lap at a time.

There is nothing to be gained by doing lap after lap flat out. Do a fast lap, see if conditions are changing, get some space on track and then run again.
This is especially prevalent in the wet where conditions can change quickly (so you need to be on track) but don't want to use up lots of fuel and increase the chance of binning it.

This is not new and has been usual practice for several years, but no, lets blame it on new rules that you clearly don't know anything about, right ?

[d3dna]

To add the regeneration lap not only helps boost the energy store, helps burn off a bit more fuel, most crucially temps of the tyre which in Malaysia at least has a high tyre temp degradation. We did see this in 2013

[andyps]

corozin said:

Is this what Bernie's clown formula of motorsport has become? Jeeeez...

For once we can't blame Bernie here, he has been against the new powertrain rules from the start.

[Some Gump]

corozin said:

I'm sure someone once said the Formula One is supposed to be the pinnacle of World Motorsport.

So what is all this stuff today in Qualifying about "regeneration laps"? So F1 cars now can't do more than one qualifying lap without having to do a bloody slow lap to recharge the sodding batteries??

Is this what Bernie's clown formula of motorsport has become? Jeeeez...

Ever since the dawn of time, qualifying has been 1 hot lap at a time. The old cars needed to cool their engines, lat decade it has been tyres. Before that they nly had the fuel for 1 hot lap.

Nothing has changed?

[Jawaman]

But when I play F1 on my Xbox, once I've heat in the tyres I can do ten laps in a row before putting the car on the front row........

[Silent1]

Crafty_ said:

They are perfectly capable of doing more than 1 qualifying lap at a time.

There is nothing to be gained by doing lap after lap flat out. Do a fast lap, see if conditions are changing, get some space on track and then run again.
This is especially prevalent in the wet where conditions can change quickly (so you need to be on track) but don't want to use up lots of fuel and increase the chance of binning it.

This is not new and has been usual practice for several years, but no, lets blame it on new rules that you clearly don't know anything about, right ?

I don't think they can, IIRC they can only regenerate (the following numbers and units are probably wrong but the ratio isnt) 2kw into the battery but each lap they can use 4kw meaning they will at some point have to do 2 laps to recover from a full qualifying lap.

ETA.
Seems i got it wrong, th MGU-K may only take 4MJ per lap from the battery and map only return 2MJ, the MGU-H is unlimited in both directions, this to me seems odd as there is no limit on the amount of energy that can be transferred between the MGU-H and the MGU-K so i can see some creative interpretations happening there whereby the K regenerates, passes it to the H and into the battery....

But, even with all that i can see how they will have to do regeneration laps to make sure the battery is full at the right time as it may contain no more than 4MJ of usable energy at any time when it's on track.

Edited by Silent1 on Sunday 30th March 20:51

[Scuffers]

Battery store us not limited to 4mj, just the amount you can use with the mguk per lap.

[eps]

I might be wrong but wasn't the main issue this weekend the fact that the Qualifying was in wet conditions and therefore the energy recovery capabilities weren't as efficient as they are normally, due to lack of hard deceleration.

[Walford]

eps said:

I might be wrong but wasn't the main issue this weekend the fact that the Qualifying was in wet conditions and therefore the energy recovery capabilities weren't as efficient as they are normally, due to lack of hard deceleration.

But if you can't decelerate had do to lack of grip, then surly the same thing would apply to acceleration
.

[eps]

Walford said:

eps said:

I might be wrong but wasn't the main issue this weekend the fact that the Qualifying was in wet conditions and therefore the energy recovery capabilities weren't as efficient as they are normally, due to lack of hard deceleration.

But if you can't decelerate had do to lack of grip, then surly the same thing would apply to acceleration
.

The ERS works in deceleration non?

[Silent1]

Scuffers said:

Battery store us not limited to 4mj, just the amount you can use with the mguk per lap.

The rules state:
"The difference between the maximum and minimum state of charge may not exceed 4MJ at any time the car is on track"
Ergo in effect it's a 4MJ energy store.

[Walford]

eps said:

Walford said:

eps said:

I might be wrong but wasn't the main issue this weekend the fact that the Qualifying was in wet conditions and therefore the energy recovery capabilities weren't as efficient as they are normally, due to lack of hard deceleration.

But if you can't decelerate had do to lack of grip, then surly the same thing would apply to acceleration
.

The ERS works in deceleration non?

Would have thought any loss of traction would be the same in and out the turn, yes you carnt harvest as much, but you have the same low grip out the turn so you carnt use it to accelerate either, Non?
.

[eps]

Walford said:

Would have thought any loss of traction would be the same in and out the turn, yes you carnt harvest as much, but you have the same low grip out the turn so you carnt use it to accelerate either, Non?
.

No.

http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/understanding_th...

[Silent1]

Walford said:

eps said:

Walford said:

eps said:

I might be wrong but wasn't the main issue this weekend the fact that the Qualifying was in wet conditions and therefore the energy recovery capabilities weren't as efficient as they are normally, due to lack of hard deceleration.

But if you can't decelerate had do to lack of grip, then surly the same thing would apply to acceleration
.

The ERS works in deceleration non?

Would have thought any loss of traction would be the same in and out the turn, yes you carnt harvest as much, but you have the same low grip out the turn so you carnt use it to accelerate either, Non?
.

They're using the MGU-H to recover energy on the straights as well, it slows the acceleration marginally but they must deem it worth it.

[Walford]

eps said:

Walford said:

Would have thought any loss of traction would be the same in and out the turn, yes you carnt harvest as much, but you have the same low grip out the turn so you carnt use it to accelerate either, Non?
.

No.

http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/understanding_th...

So they carnt use the kers to slow the car down because of the wet track, but there can dump all that energy back in on the wet track, would have thought the drive had to press the go pedal more gently out of the turn using less power

[eps]

I think the main issue was not performing as much deceleration in the wet conditions to regenerate the power..

[Walford]

eps said:

I think the main issue was not performing as much deceleration in the wet conditions to regenerate the power..

Sorry dont know much about these cars, but still think in the wet, because you carnt put the power down to accelerate hard, this would offset the lack off grip to charge the energy store, also you could run lower boost, so harvest more from the turbo
Has a team confirmed your theory ?

[n3il123]

andyps said:

corozin said:

Is this what Bernie's clown formula of motorsport has become? Jeeeez...

For once we can't blame Bernie here, he has been against the new powertrain rules from the start.

This. If you want to have a pop at anyone on this particular issue then Jean Todt is your man (FIA is in charge of technical and sporting regulations).