F1,,Tvr related?

[Alun450]

Is it only me who's enjoying the new F1 season, I like the low down gruntie engine note, enjoy seeing torque oversteer on exit, and the best bit, when they lock up a tyre on the brakes the tyres squeal like buggery, harder compound tyres this year so the cars are moving around a lot, proper driving, it reminds me of a Tvr. Fabulous and if Mclaren can get the car to work Jensons smooth thoughtfull approach might just work.
Now that's just my opinion what do you guys think?

[caduceus]

I respect your opinion Alun, as everyone is entitled to their own.
IMHO F1 is dead. A screaming high pitched V12/10/8 was the defining factor of F1, and what set it apart from everything else. Now that dumb schmuck Bernie Ecclescake has taken everything away from F1 that made it special.
I won't even be watching the Monaco Gp this year. Which will be the first time since 1986.

[ChilliWhizz]

I think....

Too many people are complaining about lack of engine noise... These are probably the same people that complain when it rains, complain when it's too hot, complain when it's too cold, etc etc etc

Bring back refuelling, trying to finish a race without running out of fuel is not a strategy.

The changes to the car, less aero etc, has worked The drivers (it appears to me) are having to work alot harder to keep the cars on the black stuff

KERS or ERS or whatever is pish. Fine if you drive a Prius. Or like hugging trees and eating seeds.

Good start to the season, in my opinion. Alot of people don't agree. Hopefully it will be contentious right up to the last race.

The double points thing is bks

Agree with Alun, quite TVR'ish... apart from the noise.

Which I'm not complaining about.

Chilli

[ChilliWhizz]

caduceus said:

I respect your opinion Alun, as everyone is entitled to their own.
IMHO F1 is dead. A screaming high pitched V12/10/8 was the defining factor of F1, and what set it apart from everything else. Now that dumb schmuck Bernie Ecclescake has taken everything away from F1 that made it special.
I won't even be watching the Monaco Gp this year. Which will be the first time since 1986.

This is what I really wanted to say

[Alun450]

Monaco sends me to sleep whatever's racing there, just goes to show the difference in opinions, I often get fed up with F1 but something about all the torque their handling is what's doing it for me.
Bernie!!???!!! Still its better than the euro's controlling it, Merc, would get all the rules in there favour, if there not already. BMW leave everytime they don't win!!!
Money and power rule so as the Germans control Europe already we'd loose F1 valley if they had there way!
Forget the politics its just good to see the drivers working their nuts off. Reaction speed seems to be very important and I like the idea the drivers never feel totally comfortable and can't just go flat everywhere! I don't like the idea of fuel saving driving but to much torque has to be a good thing to have to control it off the turns.
I believe F1 should be so hard only 6 finish a race!!!???? Crashing being the main reason for DNF, trying to hard and paying the price! They get away with murder these days.

[Alun450]

Bloody great I've just watched Perez get low rev torque oversteer off the last turn, I've been out on old rear tyres in the wet at Bedford, similar situation really, took all my wits to stay in a straight line, I like the idea the drivers come offs he track looking a bit stunned. Lol
My new favourite driver is young Magnasson, he's a cracking kid and I loved his dads very quiet approach to racing, he was blinding quick himself.

[pb450]

Totally agree with Alun and Chilli. Full sentiments expressed.

[scarble]

Alun450 said:

Monaco sends me to sleep whatever's racing there

But with the low speed corners and sudden oversteer.. it'll be carnage this year
Personally I love that F1 is finally doing what it should have been doing all along, trialling new technology.
It's a shame so much is still proscribed (valve actuation for example) but at least this is finally proving new technologies that might actually trickle down to the road.
Sure the cars aren't now pure driver's cars, but high output N/A cars are (sadly) becoming a rare thing, at least with the various ERSes we have something to fill the torque gap left by turbo lag.

We'll have to wait and see how the racing pans out, it could be that the snappy response means less on-the-edge driving, less daring passes. Or it could be that we get drivers hounding each other into mistakes.
It could be it becomes a battle of who can put the power down best. Should be interesting.

As for the noise, we can't start changing regulations just to make things sound cool, that's just silly. Performance has to come before sounding cool.

[toon tvr]

ChilliWhizz said:

caduceus said:

I respect your opinion Alun, as everyone is entitled to their own.
IMHO F1 is dead. A screaming high pitched V12/10/8 was the defining factor of F1, and what set it apart from everything else. Now that dumb schmuck Bernie Ecclescake has taken everything away from F1 that made it special.
I won't even be watching the Monaco Gp this year. Which will be the first time since 1986.

This is what I really wanted to say

I agree V8's, 10's or 12s were awesome bring em back! but as much as I don't like ecclestone its not him to blame its the FIA who changed the rules on everything and anything.

[ianwayne]

Article on BBC website suggests Ecclestone persuaded them to go to V6s. There were nearly 4 pots!

Personally, I think they sound OK. V8s screaming at 18,000 rpm was not my preference at all.

[Crafty_]

ianwayne said:

Article on BBC website suggests Ecclestone persuaded them to go to V6s. There were nearly 4 pots!

Personally, I think they sound OK. V8s screaming at 18,000 rpm was not my preference at all.

BBC getting it wrong as usual.

4 cylinder engines were being considered because VAG group said they were interested in joining the sport, as most of their cars are 4 cylinder they wanted to go that way to make it relevant to their road car stuff. VAG have shown interest several times over the years but never commit. Inline 4 not popular with the teams as they didn't think they could use it as a structural member of the car.
VAG eventually bowed out (again) and the inline 4 idea was scrapped almost immediately and V6 configuration selected as it solves the structural member problem and is generally a better solution for a range of reasons.

I think the cars sound great, funnily enough like a racing car. With other reg changes the cars are good to watch and making the drivers work. Traditionally F1 has not used big engines, the notion that an F1 car "needs" a big engine is a bit silly really.

[RGambo]

I stand to be corrected, but I believe the main driver in dropping the idea of an IL4 was that you would have to create a subframe to mount the engine in, it's far easier to make a V engine a stressed member and bolt it directly to the tub.
I'm enjoying what I've seen so far. You can't live in the past, F1 has always changed , in my tine I've seen predominantly DFV v8, the evolution of turbos with massive power. Then to slow them down we had 3.5 l atmo engines, then 3.0l then restricting them to V10 , then 2.4 V8. F1 has to keep reinventing itself or it will become stale. It's no coincidence that each time that there are large rule changes the order gets shuffled a bit.
No for me , I'm excited to see how the engineers get this technology to work properly and seeing the drivers having to earn their livings.

[Derek Smith]

RGambo said:

I stand to be corrected, but I believe the main driver in dropping the idea of an IL4 was that you would have to create a subframe to mount the engine in, it's far easier to make a V engine a stressed member and bolt it directly to the tub.
I'm enjoying what I've seen so far. You can't live in the past, F1 has always changed , in my tine I've seen predominantly DFV v8, the evolution of turbos with massive power. Then to slow them down we had 3.5 l atmo engines, then 3.0l then restricting them to V10 , then 2.4 V8. F1 has to keep reinventing itself or it will become stale. It's no coincidence that each time that there are large rule changes the order gets shuffled a bit.
No for me , I'm excited to see how the engineers get this technology to work properly and seeing the drivers having to earn their livings.

The stressed member bit was the complaint from a number of teams if memory serves.

I was worried about the rules changes, essentially a new formula. This is not a development of
f1 as was.

However, I think my fears have been negated to a massive extent. Certainly more than I even hoped they would be, let alone expected. If all we can complain about is the noise - and I'm not that bothered by the fact I can now hear tyres - then we've come out ahead.

That said, my preferred option was to keep the V8s, reduce the revs and cut the aero and to leave smooth airflow behind a car, but, for reasons still unexplained, the FIA did not even have the courtesy to reply to my suggestions. One of the great mysteries of F1.

I've got loads of criticisms of the new formula that I prepared before the first race. I now find them not applicable. It never even occurred to me that the noise would be a bit of a downer.

That said, there is still the feeling that it is early in this new formula to come to any concrete conclusions, but it is looking pretty good from where I am sitting. Power oversteer out of corners in the dry - that's the old days.

F1 is dead. Long live F1.

[davidd]

For the first time in my life I find myself agreeing with Mr Smith

I think the cars are great this year, they are all over the place.

[Ahonen]

caduceus said:

I respect your opinion Alun, as everyone is entitled to their own.
IMHO F1 is dead. A screaming high pitched V12/10/8 was the defining factor of F1, and what set it apart from everything else. Now that dumb schmuck Bernie Ecclescake has taken everything away from F1 that made it special.
I won't even be watching the Monaco Gp this year. Which will be the first time since 1986.

You seem to have forgotten the previous turbo era, which didn't feature screaming anything.

I'm very much enjoying the drama queens, like you, pronouncing that they simply won't watch another race because the noise is so ghastly. When I was a lad, when regular GP TV broadcasts were still pretty new, the slightly muffled sound of Murray and James was transmitted down a telephone line, so we never really heard the cars. We watched because it was F1. Everyone has seen the famous Villeneuve/Arnoux scrap at Dijon but no one cares what they sounded like.

If the sound was the single defining factor that tempted you to watch F1 then you really are better off not bothering in future, regardless of engine type. You have no real interest in the teams, drivers or racing. Just the noise. Good grief.

I appreciate I'm banging my head against a wall and, clearly, don't know what I'm talking about.

[RGambo]

Ahonen said:

caduceus said:

I respect your opinion Alun, as everyone is entitled to their own.
IMHO F1 is dead. A screaming high pitched V12/10/8 was the defining factor of F1, and what set it apart from everything else. Now that dumb schmuck Bernie Ecclescake has taken everything away from F1 that made it special.
I won't even be watching the Monaco Gp this year. Which will be the first time since 1986.

You seem to have forgotten the previous turbo era, which didn't feature screaming anything.

I'm very much enjoying the drama queens, like you, pronouncing that they simply won't watch another race because the noise is so ghastly. When I was a lad, when regular GP TV broadcasts were still pretty new, the slightly muffled sound of Murray and James was transmitted down a telephone line, so we never really heard the cars. We watched because it was F1. Everyone has seen the famous Villeneuve/Arnoux scrap at Dijon but no one cares what they sounded like.

If the sound was the single defining factor that tempted you to watch F1 then you really are better off not bothering in future, regardless of engine type. You have no real interest in the teams, drivers or racing. Just the noise. Good grief.

I appreciate I'm banging my head against a wall and, clearly, don't know what I'm talking about.

Well said

[Fire99]

Ahonen said:

You seem to have forgotten the previous turbo era, which didn't feature screaming anything.

I'm not certain they're the only ones that have forgotten the previous Turbo era.

They weren't screamers but they were flippin' loud and organic. This 'Dyson' era of turbocharging is as similar to the 80's as a paper aeroplane is to Concorde. Yes they are both planes but that's about it.

[CharlesAL]

If we kept V8s, Vettel and Red Bull would probably still be dominating, they were so on top of the old formula they could have bolted any engine in, which they would have had to do when Renault pulled out, so that's one thing.

For sure Mercedes are ahead now, but who knows for how long?

I don't see why the engines need to cause hearing damage just because it's F1. MotoGP has millions of dedicated fans and afaik they don't sound anything special. Maybe the fans spend more time appreciating the skills of the riders rather than complaining all the time.

[caduceus]

Ahonen said:

I appreciate I'm banging my head against a wall and, clearly, don't know what I'm talking about.

Clearly....

[Ahonen]

caduceus said:

Ahonen said:

I appreciate I'm banging my head against a wall and, clearly, don't know what I'm talking about.

Clearly....

You missed a good race yesterday.