F1 Manufacturers Supplying Customer Engines...Question.
Discussion
Please forgive this naive question but can someone tell me if a manufacturer such as Mercedes supplies EXACTLY the same engines to their customers as their works team? What checks are made by the customer to ensure that they are getting an identical engine and not a unit that is slightly down on performance?
Lordbenny said:
Please forgive this naive question but can someone tell me if a manufacturer such as Mercedes supplies EXACTLY the same engines to their customers as their works team? What checks are made by the customer to ensure that they are getting an identical engine and not a unit that is slightly down on performance?
Nothing.they can supply what they like, however, as a customer, you have the choice to go elsewhere for an engine, so it's not in the manufacturer's interest to screw you.
also remember that Renault are not a manufacturer in this context, all their engines are with customers, as will Honda next year (all be it with one 'factory' customer...)
Not 100% certain about the Regs but I’m sure there is something in there about the engines supplied to customers being the same.
The commercial realities are that these manufacturers want to offset the total cost of developing and manufacturing their engines so that even engines for their own use are cost effective. Being competitive enough to supply other teams means optimising the R&D investment, producing the same unit in larger volumes, etc., and therefore making it profitable to produce - and support – more than your own (manufacturer) team. These commercial aspects would be a big factor in ensuring the engines are “identical” (too much variation / different specs = extra costs, etc., etc.).
And the reality is if a manufacturer tried to sell a customer a “lesser product” from a reputational perspective they wouldn’t have many (or any!) customers left after a while, meaning the economics of producing an engine at a competitive becomes less feasible.
The commercial realities are that these manufacturers want to offset the total cost of developing and manufacturing their engines so that even engines for their own use are cost effective. Being competitive enough to supply other teams means optimising the R&D investment, producing the same unit in larger volumes, etc., and therefore making it profitable to produce - and support – more than your own (manufacturer) team. These commercial aspects would be a big factor in ensuring the engines are “identical” (too much variation / different specs = extra costs, etc., etc.).
And the reality is if a manufacturer tried to sell a customer a “lesser product” from a reputational perspective they wouldn’t have many (or any!) customers left after a while, meaning the economics of producing an engine at a competitive becomes less feasible.
Likes Fast Cars said:
Not 100% certain about the Regs but I’m sure there is something in there about the engines supplied to customers being the same.
The commercial realities are that these manufacturers want to offset the total cost of developing and manufacturing their engines so that even engines for their own use are cost effective. Being competitive enough to supply other teams means optimising the R&D investment, producing the same unit in larger volumes, etc., and therefore making it profitable to produce - and support – more than your own (manufacturer) team. These commercial aspects would be a big factor in ensuring the engines are “identical” (too much variation / different specs = extra costs, etc., etc.).
And the reality is if a manufacturer tried to sell a customer a “lesser product” from a reputational perspective they wouldn’t have many (or any!) customers left after a while, meaning the economics of producing an engine at a competitive becomes less feasible.
Just sussed out who this is The commercial realities are that these manufacturers want to offset the total cost of developing and manufacturing their engines so that even engines for their own use are cost effective. Being competitive enough to supply other teams means optimising the R&D investment, producing the same unit in larger volumes, etc., and therefore making it profitable to produce - and support – more than your own (manufacturer) team. These commercial aspects would be a big factor in ensuring the engines are “identical” (too much variation / different specs = extra costs, etc., etc.).
And the reality is if a manufacturer tried to sell a customer a “lesser product” from a reputational perspective they wouldn’t have many (or any!) customers left after a while, meaning the economics of producing an engine at a competitive becomes less feasible.
Lordbenny said:
Please forgive this naive question but can someone tell me if a manufacturer such as Mercedes supplies EXACTLY the same engines to their customers as their works team? What checks are made by the customer to ensure that they are getting an identical engine and not a unit that is slightly down on performance?
Engines are homologated these days and no more than one specification of power unit may be homologated.Scuffers said:
Nothing.
they can supply what they like, however, as a customer, you have the choice to go elsewhere for an engine, so it's not in the manufacturer's interest to screw you.
also remember that Renault are not a manufacturer in this context, all their engines are with customers, as will Honda next year (all be it with one 'factory' customer...)
not quite.they can supply what they like, however, as a customer, you have the choice to go elsewhere for an engine, so it's not in the manufacturer's interest to screw you.
also remember that Renault are not a manufacturer in this context, all their engines are with customers, as will Honda next year (all be it with one 'factory' customer...)
the engines are built and numbered and the FIA randomly assign numbers to the teams using that engine. This was done to ensure that being a customer team was not a disadvantage.
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