F1 Manufacturers Supplying Customer Engines...Question.

F1 Manufacturers Supplying Customer Engines...Question.

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Discussion

Lordbenny

Original Poster:

8,649 posts

225 months

Sunday 26th January 2014
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Please forgive this naive question but can someone tell me if a manufacturer such as Mercedes supplies EXACTLY the same engines to their customers as their works team? What checks are made by the customer to ensure that they are getting an identical engine and not a unit that is slightly down on performance?

Scuffers

20,887 posts

280 months

Sunday 26th January 2014
quotequote all
Lordbenny said:
Please forgive this naive question but can someone tell me if a manufacturer such as Mercedes supplies EXACTLY the same engines to their customers as their works team? What checks are made by the customer to ensure that they are getting an identical engine and not a unit that is slightly down on performance?
Nothing.

they can supply what they like, however, as a customer, you have the choice to go elsewhere for an engine, so it's not in the manufacturer's interest to screw you.

also remember that Renault are not a manufacturer in this context, all their engines are with customers, as will Honda next year (all be it with one 'factory' customer...)




Likes Fast Cars

2,884 posts

171 months

Sunday 26th January 2014
quotequote all
Not 100% certain about the Regs but I’m sure there is something in there about the engines supplied to customers being the same.

The commercial realities are that these manufacturers want to offset the total cost of developing and manufacturing their engines so that even engines for their own use are cost effective. Being competitive enough to supply other teams means optimising the R&D investment, producing the same unit in larger volumes, etc., and therefore making it profitable to produce - and support – more than your own (manufacturer) team. These commercial aspects would be a big factor in ensuring the engines are “identical” (too much variation / different specs = extra costs, etc., etc.).

And the reality is if a manufacturer tried to sell a customer a “lesser product” from a reputational perspective they wouldn’t have many (or any!) customers left after a while, meaning the economics of producing an engine at a competitive becomes less feasible.

rubystone

11,254 posts

265 months

Sunday 26th January 2014
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Likes Fast Cars said:
Not 100% certain about the Regs but I’m sure there is something in there about the engines supplied to customers being the same.

The commercial realities are that these manufacturers want to offset the total cost of developing and manufacturing their engines so that even engines for their own use are cost effective. Being competitive enough to supply other teams means optimising the R&D investment, producing the same unit in larger volumes, etc., and therefore making it profitable to produce - and support – more than your own (manufacturer) team. These commercial aspects would be a big factor in ensuring the engines are “identical” (too much variation / different specs = extra costs, etc., etc.).

And the reality is if a manufacturer tried to sell a customer a “lesser product” from a reputational perspective they wouldn’t have many (or any!) customers left after a while, meaning the economics of producing an engine at a competitive becomes less feasible.
Just sussed out who this is smile

ralphrj

3,626 posts

197 months

Sunday 26th January 2014
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Lordbenny said:
Please forgive this naive question but can someone tell me if a manufacturer such as Mercedes supplies EXACTLY the same engines to their customers as their works team? What checks are made by the customer to ensure that they are getting an identical engine and not a unit that is slightly down on performance?
Engines are homologated these days and no more than one specification of power unit may be homologated.


Likes Fast Cars

2,884 posts

171 months

Sunday 26th January 2014
quotequote all
rubystone said:
Just sussed out who this is smile
My p155 eloquent command of the English language gave it away, right? Well. I should have been CEO of IBM but....

Justaredbadge

37,068 posts

194 months

Sunday 26th January 2014
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Scuffers said:
Nothing.

they can supply what they like, however, as a customer, you have the choice to go elsewhere for an engine, so it's not in the manufacturer's interest to screw you.

also remember that Renault are not a manufacturer in this context, all their engines are with customers, as will Honda next year (all be it with one 'factory' customer...)
not quite.

the engines are built and numbered and the FIA randomly assign numbers to the teams using that engine. This was done to ensure that being a customer team was not a disadvantage.

Scuffers

20,887 posts

280 months

Sunday 26th January 2014
quotequote all
Justaredbadge said:
not quite.

the engines are built and numbered and the FIA randomly assign numbers to the teams using that engine. This was done to ensure that being a customer team was not a disadvantage.
Really?

I thought the numbering was about policing the engine usage rules?

Justaredbadge

37,068 posts

194 months

Sunday 26th January 2014
quotequote all
Scuffers said:
Really?

I thought the numbering was about policing the engine usage rules?
I guess they admired Colin Chapman so much they decided to use the same numbers for two different duties.