RE: F1 with turbos: Tell Me I'm Wrong

RE: F1 with turbos: Tell Me I'm Wrong

Thursday 16th January 2014

F1 with turbos: Tell Me I'm Wrong

Against all the detractors, Chris is eagerly awaiting the 2014 F1 season. A foolish decision?



The cars will be ugly, the V6s will sound rubbish and the turbochargers will wheeze around circuits slower than the 2013 cars. Most people seem to think that new-F1 will be terrible.

I haven't looked forward to a season as much for years.

Old turbo cars even broke spectacularly!
Old turbo cars even broke spectacularly!
The sport badly needed a shake-up, or what should correctly be termed de-Neweying, because Red Bull's dominance has become tedious and profoundly damaging to the sport. A complete re-think of the technical regulations was therefore necessary.

As was a re-focusing of F1's relevance to those who spend money competing in it - the car manufacturers that Bernie and Max always said couldn't and shouldn't be relied on to keep things going. But without whom F1 would be a shambles.

If there is no technical link, no marketing message that can be spun, then F1 is moribund - so turbocharging wasn't just a good idea, it was the only idea. Because apparently everything needs to be turbocharged from this day forward. Except the Lexus RC F. Anyways, we get a 1.6 litre turbo V6 and a 15,000rpm rev limit. Here's what they sound like on a dyno.

2013 wasn't a great season; how about 2014?
2013 wasn't a great season; how about 2014?
And for reference, here's how a turbo V6 sounded back in the day. Do you think it has enough torque?

Have you watched any F1 from the first turbo era lately? It was pretty damn exciting. How much of this can be attributed to the experimental nature of the engine work back then is probably debatable - most drivers in qualifying spec seemed only to be vaguely in control of their machines - but there's no doubt that driving these new cars will present more of a challenge than last year's normally aspirated cars.

The level of choreographed technology is a worry: push-to-pass alongside DRS and other fakery detracts from the purity of the racing. And all this managing 100kg of fuel for a 300km race distance is potentially bad - as is anything which requires 'managing' in F1, except perhaps the driver's ego.

And what does this season hold for Seb?
And what does this season hold for Seb?
But the thought of Lewis wrestling 700 turbocharged horsepower in the wet, with no traction control, gets me positively agitated. As does the suspicion that for once F1 won't simply be an aero and tyre formula. Lord knows what Pirelli will come up with on the compound front, but if matters were contentious with last year's torque figures, 2014 could see Paul Hembrey requiring several body guards.

Or they just chuck each team a set of Woo Sun Dark Horse Ditch Finders and tell them to get the bugger sideways, Gilles-style. Suppose we can only hope.

It really would be a shame, and a missed opportunity if the rubber couldn't withstand some slip angle though. I've had enough of listening to drivers moaning about not being able to push.

Monkey says V6 turbos are good news; is he right?
Monkey says V6 turbos are good news; is he right?
So we have a greater challenge for the driver, a welcome diminution of downforce's role, the prospect of the established hierarchy of performance among the teams being re-cast and no doubt a few mechanical failures thrown in for good measure too.

It has the makings of a classic - albeit one that could well spawn a runaway winner who leaves a good deal of scrapping for the remaining spoils.

There is however the outside possibility that my hopes are misguided, and that Formula 1 is about to suffer a forced-fed disaster.

Please tell me if I'm wrong.

[F1 pics: LAT]

Author
Discussion

Ved

Original Poster:

3,825 posts

181 months

Wednesday 15th January 2014
quotequote all
I can't see the engines changing the core values that have been lost over the previous seasons. Less grip, less gimmicks, less crap circuits, zero driver aids. That's the F1 that I want.

But you know what 'want' gets...

Edited by Ved on Wednesday 15th January 14:04

RossP

2,547 posts

289 months

Wednesday 15th January 2014
quotequote all
It's got to be an improvement on recent seasons!

thatdude

2,657 posts

133 months

Wednesday 15th January 2014
quotequote all
I don't think there will be many engine failures, let alone spectacular ones. Everything is so well understood these days that everything si run well within the limits.

Unless...


...they bring back toluene-based fuels for Saturday



suffolk009

5,684 posts

171 months

Wednesday 15th January 2014
quotequote all
I think the engines will be just fine.

DRS, the dreary circuits, the sponsor-friendly-drivel from the drivers, the lack of journalistic interest in anything remotely technical, it all ruins the race weekends for me. For sure.

Chris Harris

494 posts

159 months

Wednesday 15th January 2014
quotequote all
And Gary Anderson has left the BBC. Sad face.

DaSchnee

11 posts

135 months

Wednesday 15th January 2014
quotequote all
I think the V6 turbos are very exciting but I can't see how they are going to make aero less important.

PtheP

66 posts

146 months

Wednesday 15th January 2014
quotequote all
There's absolutely no problem in looking forward to any season - hope springs eternal as they say! I should know ... I'm a Spurs fan

Dr G

15,359 posts

248 months

Wednesday 15th January 2014
quotequote all
Child of the 80s. Anything with a turbo is cool.

The Danimal

178 posts

161 months

Wednesday 15th January 2014
quotequote all
Chris Harris said:
And Gary Anderson has left the BBC. Sad face.
Oh dear. That's a kick in the knickers.

RobGT81

5,229 posts

192 months

Wednesday 15th January 2014
quotequote all
There is nothing exciting about the turbos they are using, no reason to think they won't be pretty much bullet proof. It Audi can run around Le Mans for 24 hours with a much more complicated turbo, there's no reason to think that Renault Sport can't do the same.

V8 FOU

2,986 posts

153 months

Wednesday 15th January 2014
quotequote all
F1 - Interesting??? Wow. Chris, you could be right on this. Jeez, I might even try and watch a race for the first time in 20+ years......

Motorrad

6,811 posts

193 months

Wednesday 15th January 2014
quotequote all
My interest in F1 was lost a long time ago, I suppose there's a glimmer of hope that a radical change will make things a bit more exciting. However are they really going to do the double points at the last race st as they proposed. If so I'm out. What next, rock paper scissors for grid positions?

Ved

Original Poster:

3,825 posts

181 months

Wednesday 15th January 2014
quotequote all
The Danimal said:
Chris Harris said:
And Gary Anderson has left the BBC. Sad face.
Oh dear. That's a kick in the knickers.
Gone to Sky or just didn't fancy another season on tele? I always found his insights much less condescending than Brundle's so it's a shame he won't be there.

zeppelin101

724 posts

198 months

Wednesday 15th January 2014
quotequote all
Motorrad said:
What next, rock paper scissors for grid positions?
Might mean that there isn't a Red Bull on pole every other race if that's the case.

sagarich

1,239 posts

155 months

Wednesday 15th January 2014
quotequote all
I hope you're right, I found last year rather tedious... Although I still watched every race start to finish.

Root Ginger

37 posts

225 months

Wednesday 15th January 2014
quotequote all
I for one am really looking forward to it. It has the potential to turn the pecking order on it's head (at least among the big players), the large levels of torque generated by the ERS system are going to be interesting, especially for Pirelli,

There will certainly be more breakdowns than in 2013 but this is not likely to be as big an issue as people make out, what I think will be more of an issue is ERS failures. If that happens in 2014 you'll be losing 1 or 2 seconds a lap, a disaster for teams.

The engine sound will certainly be different but for anyone whose seen and heard the Ferrari test mule with the F1 engine inside, it sounds awesome.

sunsurfer

305 posts

187 months

Wednesday 15th January 2014
quotequote all
I think you're right.
Hopefully these technical changes will be another pull on the jackpot machine handle. Ideally (much as I respect Seb Vettels achievements) it will lead to closer fighting between teams and drivers for the world championship. The changes could even lead to a mid rank team winning a Grand Prix - as Maldonado did with Williams.

I'm not too fussed by engine sound. What I like to see is performance, and drivers dancing their car on the edge of their ability and oblivion.

Parax

24 posts

140 months

Wednesday 15th January 2014
quotequote all
It won't be about the turbos it'll all come down to the ERS.. with so much power available each lap, if you can recover enough each lap you'll win. Recovering energy from braking alone won't be enough, so question is who'll be running high revs to harvest energy round every corner??
keep the engines reving high and efficient! harvest power when you don't need it at the wheels, and in the straights let it all go..

Edited by Parax on Wednesday 15th January 14:29

Dazed & Confused

206 posts

210 months

Wednesday 15th January 2014
quotequote all
Turbos are only relevant to manufacturers because fuel consumption is relevant to manufacturers, and turbo is what most (but not all - e.g. Mazda) have decided on to meet that requirement.

So instead of defining the engine so tightly, why not just take a step back and just limit the fuel? The manufacturers can then do what they want. Turbos. KERS. Hybrids. Hot air. Whatever they do is immediately relevant to their road cars - in both cases it's about getting more performance out of less fuel in the best way they can.

Then keep it simple. No traction. No moveable aero. No having to use 11 different tyre types if the driver is a Capricorn, but only 4 if their wife is currently pregant.

Drop DRS - it is confusing for newcomers, feels incredibly artificial and unfair in that it almost rewards failure (What next? 5 point for trying really, really hard?) and means F1 is more like Mario Kart than ever.

Except Mario Kart is really good.

stats007

531 posts

241 months

Wednesday 15th January 2014
quotequote all
The new V6s appear to sound horrible but provided Suzi Perry disappears from BBCs coverage I can handle anything.