An ultimate racing competition - rival to Formula 1
Discussion
After all this mumbo-jumbo from FIA with double points KERS DRS and all other stupid artificial assists trying to make F1 more interesting, I had to start wondering what is the actual hurdle of making another competition that would be similar to F1 from 80s? V12 engines producing north of 1500 HP, real manual transmission, real slick tires and other things that would accentuate driver's role in the sport.
Does FIA have monopole on racing so noone else is allowed to organise competition where cars would go faster than actual F1 cars?
Does FIA have monopole on racing so noone else is allowed to organise competition where cars would go faster than actual F1 cars?
I have never mentioned they had 1500 hp (although they probably did in a qualifying trim, talking about turbo engines), just that it is relatively easy to squeeze 1500 HP out of a modern V12 5/6 liter engine (3.0 V10s had close to 1000 HP few years ago so why not).
Also modern F1 cars are very constrained by rules(not only engine, it's aero/tires/other bits too), altering those rules would release a lot of seconds per lap.
Also modern F1 cars are very constrained by rules(not only engine, it's aero/tires/other bits too), altering those rules would release a lot of seconds per lap.
Watch BOSS. If you want to see V10/V12, modified ex F1, GP2, RWS, IRL etc. going toe to toe.
If some sponsorship turned up for the series all us lot could provide a boat load of cars with the revs turned UP big time, flat floors, active aero etc. etc.
Hell we've got most of the tooling for a certain 2005 F1 car, if someone wants to put a million quid up we can build something quicker and more spectacular than 2013 F1 cars.
Which is why it's never going to happen. As a bunch of competitors we'd need to find at least £3 million each to field a season with a car like you describe and that's as an established company with the F1 know how, tooling and the kit to do this. Others starting from scratch will need £5M+. When you get to that point it's a business so we all need at least 2.5 Mil a year back with a chassis life of at least 3 seasons to make a reasonable return on our efforts. Say 15 single car teams and we need £37.5M into the series just to make it pay for us.
So new series that needs 50 million quid a year including circuits and some PR. In the current climate. After Superleague, F2 etc. have all died a death and F1 is struggling (half the grid are in survival mode whilst trying to fund dev to a totally new set of regs)
Be glad F1 is still going and BOSS exists to allow some privateer single seater action.
If some sponsorship turned up for the series all us lot could provide a boat load of cars with the revs turned UP big time, flat floors, active aero etc. etc.
Hell we've got most of the tooling for a certain 2005 F1 car, if someone wants to put a million quid up we can build something quicker and more spectacular than 2013 F1 cars.
Which is why it's never going to happen. As a bunch of competitors we'd need to find at least £3 million each to field a season with a car like you describe and that's as an established company with the F1 know how, tooling and the kit to do this. Others starting from scratch will need £5M+. When you get to that point it's a business so we all need at least 2.5 Mil a year back with a chassis life of at least 3 seasons to make a reasonable return on our efforts. Say 15 single car teams and we need £37.5M into the series just to make it pay for us.
So new series that needs 50 million quid a year including circuits and some PR. In the current climate. After Superleague, F2 etc. have all died a death and F1 is struggling (half the grid are in survival mode whilst trying to fund dev to a totally new set of regs)
Be glad F1 is still going and BOSS exists to allow some privateer single seater action.
poppopbangbang said:
Watch BOSS. If you want to see V10/V12, modified ex F1, GP2, RWS, IRL etc. going toe to toe.
If some sponsorship turned up for the series all us lot could provide a boat load of cars with the revs turned UP big time, flat floors, active aero etc. etc.
Hell we've got most of the tooling for a certain 2005 F1 car, if someone wants to put a million quid up we can build something quicker and more spectacular than 2013 F1 cars.
Which is why it's never going to happen. As a bunch of competitors we'd need to find at least £3 million each to field a season with a car like you describe and that's as an established company with the F1 know how, tooling and the kit to do this. Others starting from scratch will need £5M+. When you get to that point it's a business so we all need at least 2.5 Mil a year back with a chassis life of at least 3 seasons to make a reasonable return on our efforts. Say 15 single car teams and we need £37.5M into the series just to make it pay for us.
So new series that needs 50 million quid a year including circuits and some PR. In the current climate. After Superleague, F2 etc. have all died a death and F1 is struggling (half the grid are in survival mode whilst trying to fund dev to a totally new set of regs)
Be glad F1 is still going and BOSS exists to allow some privateer single seater action.
Holy fIf some sponsorship turned up for the series all us lot could provide a boat load of cars with the revs turned UP big time, flat floors, active aero etc. etc.
Hell we've got most of the tooling for a certain 2005 F1 car, if someone wants to put a million quid up we can build something quicker and more spectacular than 2013 F1 cars.
Which is why it's never going to happen. As a bunch of competitors we'd need to find at least £3 million each to field a season with a car like you describe and that's as an established company with the F1 know how, tooling and the kit to do this. Others starting from scratch will need £5M+. When you get to that point it's a business so we all need at least 2.5 Mil a year back with a chassis life of at least 3 seasons to make a reasonable return on our efforts. Say 15 single car teams and we need £37.5M into the series just to make it pay for us.
So new series that needs 50 million quid a year including circuits and some PR. In the current climate. After Superleague, F2 etc. have all died a death and F1 is struggling (half the grid are in survival mode whilst trying to fund dev to a totally new set of regs)
Be glad F1 is still going and BOSS exists to allow some privateer single seater action.
k. I'd never heard of this series, but 20 minutes on YouTube has changed that.How can a series like this receive so little publicity? These cars are amazing. I honestly thought the only way of hearing a V10 F1 engine in the flesh nowadays would be by going to somewhere like Goodwood.
Does it come to the UK? If so, where, when and how do I get tickets?
Tc24 said:
Holy fk. I'd never heard of this series, but 20 minutes on YouTube has changed that.
How can a series like this receive so little publicity? These cars are amazing. I honestly thought the only way of hearing a V10 F1 engine in the flesh nowadays would be by going to somewhere like Goodwood.
Does it come to the UK? If so, where, when and how do I get tickets?
Yep BOSS is a fantastic series and woefully under recognised / under appreciated. What's more is the paddock for all intense and purpose is open and everyone is happy to discuss the cars and what they've done to them. With regards the F1s you get a seriously good mix of F1s with JUDD engines, our crazy absolutely GP spec cars which are ran with exactly the same systems and kit as they were in F1 (i.e. Hydraulics, air valve engines, flexures etc. etc.) and everything in between including the GP2 cars, WSR etc. etc. Most run original liveries, some go a little more unique. It really is a wonderful spectacle. k. I'd never heard of this series, but 20 minutes on YouTube has changed that.How can a series like this receive so little publicity? These cars are amazing. I honestly thought the only way of hearing a V10 F1 engine in the flesh nowadays would be by going to somewhere like Goodwood.
Does it come to the UK? If so, where, when and how do I get tickets?
What's even more impressive is that these cars are privately owned and engineered by small, highly dedicated and skilled companies with no where near the resource of an F1 team yet we're still developing the cars from where they were back in the day. We have early 2000 era cars which on modern tyres, brakes, dampers and with some aero upgrades can lap quicker than they did in the day and run twice the distance between major rebuild
Unfortunately there are no races in the UK at the moment as the cars are too noisy for most circuits here. We would love to see a round at Brands GP but until then I suggest Ricard is a good bet as it's relatively commutable and it's an excellent circuit. The 2014 calendar is out shortly and we have two cars in build now that we are hoping to run in the 2014 series (R car and T Car).
BOSS deserves some investment and some proper TV time, the racing is close, on the right side of aggresive and due to it's more sprint orientated format means everyone is on it from the get go - no fuel saving or tyre wear management! There was talk of it becoming an F1 support race for European rounds but then it'd make the main event look a bit dull
Emeye said:
Didn't mansell and co try this a few years back and it failed? GP Masters or summat?
I seem to remember that, wasn't meant to take on F1, it was an old timers one-make series and AFAIK whist the cars had a very F1 look they were nothing like as quick.I seem to recall something called A1 GP, which was another one-make F1alike which ran in the winter.
Found it on Wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A1_Grand_Prix
In short, brainchild / play thing of very rich Arab, Ferrari made the cars and engines, Rich Arab got bored, pulled out, series fell apart.
Edited by P-Jay on Tuesday 17th December 09:59
AreOut said:
After all this mumbo-jumbo from FIA with double points KERS DRS and all other stupid artificial assists trying to make F1 more interesting, I had to start wondering what is the actual hurdle of making another competition that would be similar to F1 from 80s? V12 engines producing north of 1500 HP, real manual transmission, real slick tires and other things that would accentuate driver's role in the sport.
Does FIA have monopole on racing so noone else is allowed to organise competition where cars would go faster than actual F1 cars?
Forget the cars for a second, you need to make an economy in which this would survive. Does FIA have monopole on racing so noone else is allowed to organise competition where cars would go faster than actual F1 cars?
That means sponsors, who like publicity, so you need some publicity. TV coverage is obviously the main objective, but that won't happen unless people want to watch and can be shown adverts during the program.
You need not only racing fans but the great unwashed general public to find and watch it.
Now you need teams willing to construct a car, stand up a crew of people and a couple of drivers, maybe 10 teams to make it worthwhile ?
Then you need to agree contracts with tracks to host your events - they'll want to see crowds turning up for the gate money.
When you look how much motorsport goes on every weekend just in the UK and how much gets coverage its pretty awful really. Worldwide its even worse - the BOSS series has been running for years but is not well known.
Its taken F1 about 60 years to get where it is in terms of being known/popularity. Without it a racing series is never going to be a long term thing - see A1 GP.
RobGT81 said:
Because 2 out of 30 cars run diesels? Its the series with the most advanced and relevent cars.
and rules made to benefit diesel cars, or at least it was like that a year or two ago (I remember there were audi peugeot and some other maker doing it very successiful with those t/hdi cars)Crafty_ said:
Forget the cars for a second, you need to make an economy in which this would survive.
That means sponsors, who like publicity, so you need some publicity. TV coverage is obviously the main objective, but that won't happen unless people want to watch and can be shown adverts during the program.
You need not only racing fans but the great unwashed general public to find and watch it.
Now you need teams willing to construct a car, stand up a crew of people and a couple of drivers, maybe 10 teams to make it worthwhile ?
Then you need to agree contracts with tracks to host your events - they'll want to see crowds turning up for the gate money.
When you look how much motorsport goes on every weekend just in the UK and how much gets coverage its pretty awful really. Worldwide its even worse - the BOSS series has been running for years but is not well known.
Its taken F1 about 60 years to get where it is in terms of being known/popularity. Without it a racing series is never going to be a long term thing - see A1 GP.
I understand your point but somehow I think that there IS a critical mass of people wanting to see some real racing, there are many car enthusiasts in the world not everyone is here on PH That means sponsors, who like publicity, so you need some publicity. TV coverage is obviously the main objective, but that won't happen unless people want to watch and can be shown adverts during the program.
You need not only racing fans but the great unwashed general public to find and watch it.
Now you need teams willing to construct a car, stand up a crew of people and a couple of drivers, maybe 10 teams to make it worthwhile ?
Then you need to agree contracts with tracks to host your events - they'll want to see crowds turning up for the gate money.
When you look how much motorsport goes on every weekend just in the UK and how much gets coverage its pretty awful really. Worldwide its even worse - the BOSS series has been running for years but is not well known.
Its taken F1 about 60 years to get where it is in terms of being known/popularity. Without it a racing series is never going to be a long term thing - see A1 GP.
enough people would generate enough revenue, it probably wouldn't turn profitable first two or three years until it gets popular but it does have a significant potential as a long-term investition350Matt said:
also if you want recogntion from the FIA and the ability to call yourself a world champion then its needs their sanction so they will ensure that it won't be faster than F1 over a single lap
that's why I asked if it's legally allowed to run racing competition on a world level without FIA approval, I know that basically all well-known car racing competitions are under FIA jurisdiction...designndrive62 said:
Suprised noone has mentioned CANAM yet... Those beasts were essentially what OP has described, a series with no rules to all accounts and was the fastest thing on the planet at the time. Maybe its time for that to be resurrected
bingo, how could I forget that what it needs is a good management and marketing(beside initial investition), can't see why would that failAreOut said:
I understand your point but somehow I think that there IS a critical mass of people wanting to see some real racing, there are many car enthusiasts in the world not everyone is here on PH enough people would generate enough revenue, it probably wouldn't turn profitable first two or three years until it gets popular but it does have a significant potential as a long-term investition
Not enough people to make it viable though, thats the problem. enough people would generate enough revenue, it probably wouldn't turn profitable first two or three years until it gets popular but it does have a significant potential as a long-term investitionPut it this way, if there was some money in it, someone would be doing it
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