Lewis Hamilton 5 years on
Discussion
So, re-reading this article after his 2008 WC win, he seemed 'destined for greatness'.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula...
So simple question, has he lived up to his early promise? Or will he now be overshadowed by the likes of say Vettel, Alonso and maybe even Grosjean.
There's no doubting his raw speed but is that enough nowadays? Was it ever enough?
Personally I think he can win another WDC - but I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't but was always up there or thereabouts (a bit like Kimi is now).
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula...
So simple question, has he lived up to his early promise? Or will he now be overshadowed by the likes of say Vettel, Alonso and maybe even Grosjean.
There's no doubting his raw speed but is that enough nowadays? Was it ever enough?
Personally I think he can win another WDC - but I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't but was always up there or thereabouts (a bit like Kimi is now).
Lewis is still regarded as the fastest driver on the grid by most. So he still has the 'promise' - but as long as he is held back and not allowed to go flat out from start to stop to stop; he will struggle and may even look a tad above average at times. A real shame IMO. But as it stands, Vettel, in 'that' mind frame and in 'that' car - is unbeatable. Put Lewis in the Red Bull... who knows... but there's no doubting that Vettel has not been 'blinded by the lights' and is a better driver for it. More focussed and more of a complete package; more than Alonso too I feel. Raw speed; Lewis is still the man.
I believe the key difference between Hamiliton and Vettel is in the mind sets. The world thought LH was the next big thing, LH believed he was the next big thing. LH then took his eye off the ball because of his many distractions.
The world though SV was good but it was all down to the car. SV continued to be focused as he still had something to prove, i.e it is not the car. 4 WDC down the line, many still say it is just the car, but some are coming around.
LH had a good first two years, but has not lived up to the hype since. JB kept him honest and NR is doing the same. All LH can do at the moment is whinge about SV having a better car.
The world though SV was good but it was all down to the car. SV continued to be focused as he still had something to prove, i.e it is not the car. 4 WDC down the line, many still say it is just the car, but some are coming around.
LH had a good first two years, but has not lived up to the hype since. JB kept him honest and NR is doing the same. All LH can do at the moment is whinge about SV having a better car.
StevieBee said:
Well, for me...not only has he stopped the banger racing approach, he's also improved vastly in speed and skill.
I doubt his skill has changed much. He has 80 points less than Raikkonen, but he has probably calmed down a bit during the starts so next year might be on a more equal footing to his team mate whoever that ends up being.A couple of good results here and there means that the car was well sorted on those particular races (relative to the other teams), and the driver did not get involved by chance or by stupid decision in any collisions and thus finish the race...
As is see it Hamilton should have won two titles of not three, but the tactics and the machinery havent allowed him to do it. That said whilst i don't warm to Vettel he has made the best of the best and although it could be argued that this year looked the easiest of his 4 titles he still has to be commended for getting it done. In summary He was in the right car at the right time as can happen. . .just ask Jenson !
The rule changes for 2014 will hopefully gives us back some of the zing that this year and perhaps the previous year has taken away with the 'Red Bull' effect. . .but as is always said, we will have to wait and see.
As for Grosjean, well good luck to him, podiums instead of crashes now, no mean acheivement. But in reality he has only improved to the standard of the most of the others around him, not surpassed them (in my opinion)
I sincerely hope we get to Australia in March and see the order shuffle around and if that goes the way of L.H then good news.
The rule changes for 2014 will hopefully gives us back some of the zing that this year and perhaps the previous year has taken away with the 'Red Bull' effect. . .but as is always said, we will have to wait and see.
As for Grosjean, well good luck to him, podiums instead of crashes now, no mean acheivement. But in reality he has only improved to the standard of the most of the others around him, not surpassed them (in my opinion)
I sincerely hope we get to Australia in March and see the order shuffle around and if that goes the way of L.H then good news.
marshall100 said:
Why are people suddenly rating Grosjean when earlier this year even other drivers wanted him thrown out?
He was always fast. I think it is easier to add control and discipline than add speed. I've always liked his speed on track, I'm glad he has settled down a bit without compromising his pace. I think Lewis on his day is probably the quickest driver, he has had distractions but seems to be enjoying it now.
He just needs to have the right tools
I would say little between Lewis, Alonso and Vettel and even button on his day,
Button is smooth, Lewis just loves the car hanging out
I would love to see drivers flat out instead of tyre management
He just needs to have the right tools
I would say little between Lewis, Alonso and Vettel and even button on his day,
Button is smooth, Lewis just loves the car hanging out
I would love to see drivers flat out instead of tyre management
benters said:
As is see it Hamilton should have won two titles of not three, but the tactics and the machinery havent allowed him to do it. That said whilst i don't warm to Vettel he has made the best of the best and although it could be argued that this year looked the easiest of his 4 titles he still has to be commended for getting it done. In summary He was in the right car at the right time as can happen. . .just ask Jenson !
The rule changes for 2014 will hopefully gives us back some of the zing that this year and perhaps the previous year has taken away with the 'Red Bull' effect. . .but as is always said, we will have to wait and see.
As for Grosjean, well good luck to him, podiums instead of crashes now, no mean acheivement. But in reality he has only improved to the standard of the most of the others around him, not surpassed them (in my opinion)
This.The rule changes for 2014 will hopefully gives us back some of the zing that this year and perhaps the previous year has taken away with the 'Red Bull' effect. . .but as is always said, we will have to wait and see.
As for Grosjean, well good luck to him, podiums instead of crashes now, no mean acheivement. But in reality he has only improved to the standard of the most of the others around him, not surpassed them (in my opinion)
Lewis should have won in his first year, and arguably his third.
the issue since then is that the car was crap, and then more recently, the move to Pirelli means having to nurse the car 99.9% of the time, which preluded Lewis's big advantage (over most) of being able to drive at the limit's of the car's adhesion better than anybody else.
yes, he's had to learn to nurse tyres (as have they all) and I think last year he proved he's as good as anybody else at this, but, sadly, IMHO this is not racing.
I don't think fundamentally he's changed, he's still blisteringly quick when allowed and I honestly think he can get that extra 0.01 seconds from a car that most of the rest of the grid can't.
But the game has changed massively since he came into it, the tyres certainly don't help him - back in 2008 they still had the sort of rubber that never changed performance and lasted as long as you wanted it too (relatively) they also had the mindset of doing all the passing in the pits - he comes into it - drags the thing around at 101% doing the sort of things that would have you in the pits every other lap now and finding gaps that others didn't consider. Pirrelli and DRS have nullified his advantage somewhat, doesn't mean he's not fast though, far from it.
Next year will be really important for him, Mercedes are expected by half the grid to start 2014 with a monster of a car, if they do either he or Nico will win WDC IMHO.
But the game has changed massively since he came into it, the tyres certainly don't help him - back in 2008 they still had the sort of rubber that never changed performance and lasted as long as you wanted it too (relatively) they also had the mindset of doing all the passing in the pits - he comes into it - drags the thing around at 101% doing the sort of things that would have you in the pits every other lap now and finding gaps that others didn't consider. Pirrelli and DRS have nullified his advantage somewhat, doesn't mean he's not fast though, far from it.
Next year will be really important for him, Mercedes are expected by half the grid to start 2014 with a monster of a car, if they do either he or Nico will win WDC IMHO.
I get the feeling that Hamilton wouldn't have sacrificed the trappings of success for a chance to drive the RB.
I think his main weakness is that he likes the limelight, so appears more affected by things not going his way. Whilst his move to Mercedes looks shrewd now, I find it hard to believe he saw that McLaren were going to be as uncompetitive as they have been this season. Let's face it - he chased the money. That in my opinion is his weakness - as competent driver as he is, he loves the lifestyle and lives his life in public.
I think his main weakness is that he likes the limelight, so appears more affected by things not going his way. Whilst his move to Mercedes looks shrewd now, I find it hard to believe he saw that McLaren were going to be as uncompetitive as they have been this season. Let's face it - he chased the money. That in my opinion is his weakness - as competent driver as he is, he loves the lifestyle and lives his life in public.
Durzel said:
I get the feeling that Hamilton wouldn't have sacrificed the trappings of success for a chance to drive the RB.
I think his main weakness is that he likes the limelight, so appears more affected by things not going his way. Whilst his move to Mercedes looks shrewd now, I find it hard to believe he saw that McLaren were going to be as uncompetitive as they have been this season. Let's face it - he chased the money. That in my opinion is his weakness - as competent driver as he is, he loves the lifestyle and lives his life in public.
I doubt Hamilton knew - but then again how many of us actually believed he would make that move in the first place!?I think his main weakness is that he likes the limelight, so appears more affected by things not going his way. Whilst his move to Mercedes looks shrewd now, I find it hard to believe he saw that McLaren were going to be as uncompetitive as they have been this season. Let's face it - he chased the money. That in my opinion is his weakness - as competent driver as he is, he loves the lifestyle and lives his life in public.
A brilliant bit of management (I doubt that too)... a hell of a lot of arm twisting and big pot of gold? Maybe.
Either way - this year he dodged a bullet!
Steamer said:
I doubt Hamilton knew - but then again how many of us actually believed he would make that move in the first place!?
A brilliant bit of management (I doubt that too)... a hell of a lot of arm twisting and big pot of gold? Maybe.
Either way - this year he dodged a bullet!
Maybe the 2013 was designed to suit Hamilton, but when he moved teams with 'little' notice neither Button nor Perez can 'get on' with the car?A brilliant bit of management (I doubt that too)... a hell of a lot of arm twisting and big pot of gold? Maybe.
Either way - this year he dodged a bullet!
stevesingo said:
I believe the key difference between Hamiliton and Vettel is in the mind sets. The world thought LH was the next big thing, LH believed he was the next big thing. LH then took his eye off the ball because of his many distractions.
The world though SV was good but it was all down to the car. SV continued to be focused as he still had something to prove, i.e it is not the car. 4 WDC down the line, many still say it is just the car, but some are coming around.
LH had a good first two years, but has not lived up to the hype since. JB kept him honest and NR is doing the same. All LH can do at the moment is whinge about SV having a better car.
This ^^^^The world though SV was good but it was all down to the car. SV continued to be focused as he still had something to prove, i.e it is not the car. 4 WDC down the line, many still say it is just the car, but some are coming around.
LH had a good first two years, but has not lived up to the hype since. JB kept him honest and NR is doing the same. All LH can do at the moment is whinge about SV having a better car.
Lewis is a full balls out racer. His quali lap at Silverstone this year was the highlight of the year for me, just stunning. Lewis is at is best when he's flat out and tyres are not an issue, hunting Vettel down in USA last year for example.
BUT he just seems fed up ALL the time at the moment, no spark or passion. Just media trained and very bland, and he seems more mentally fragile than Vettel/Alonso & Raikkonen. It's a shame, just a few more smiles would be good. Maybe he feels forced out of McLaren; what should have been 'his' team all his career a la Ryan Giggs style, what money on him being there in 2015 - to try and emulate his hero Senna in the McHonda??
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